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Well, THAT was a failed experiment


Mara
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I was diagnosed a few years ago with chronic clinical depression. Have been on Celexa, and then Lexapro, for about the past 6 years. It's really been a godsend for me; I did take a short "break", weaning myself from it in 2010 but got slammed with symptoms again after a few months and so went back on with a slightly higher dose. I do well on it. Very well. I tend to be on the anxious side and could worry for the US in the Olympics. That, plus the black cloud days (as I call them) when I could barely move and only wanted to sleep, could make life pretty much hell.

 

Fast forward to about three months back. I got a different GP because we switched insurance to an HMO group (I LOVED my previous GP) and he suggested we maybe try to back me down to lower doses and then maybe try to get me off the meds entirely. Well, OK; I wasn't thrilled with the idea but hey, . It's not expensive stuff, so not taking it wasn't going to fatten my wallet. But I have to take other meds for ulcerative colitis (giant horse pills 3X/day for the rest of my life), so it seemed appealing to maybe eliminate one daily pill.

 

Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad idea. I did ok going from 40 mg to 20. 20 to 10 seemed all right but in retrospect it was not. Going off entirely. . . . sucked. No black cloud days but I've been extremely cranky and irritable for long periods of time with no real reason, NO patience with anything or anyone - I totally lost it on my husband earlier today for something minor and the anxiety is ramping up. I called the dr. yesterday and made him put me back on the full original dose. (If he had refused I'd have gone back to my original GP and just eaten the out-of-network cost for it).

 

I know medication isn't for everyone. And it's not like the stuff numbs me out or makes me high or anything. It's just that my brain isn't quite able to manage certain neurotransmitters as well as it should, and the Lexapro helps with that. I feel like I've lost about a month due to agreeing to stop meds; if I ever hear that suggestion again I'll remember that it is NOT a good idea!

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A serious question if I may. Does the smoking or not smoking play any role in any of this at this point. Just curious.. :huh:
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You know, good question but I don't think there's really a tie in. I took Chantix for the first two months of my quit and was very careful to monitor my moods since Chantix has apparently been shown to be a cause of depression for some people. It didn't bother me.

 

I haven't been wanting nicotine any more or less than usual. I think about how nice it might be to have a cigarette about every two or three days and I still think secondhand smoke smells divine, but I no longer have any hardcore cravings.

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Thanks. Just a curiosity. My wife has been taking 10 mg of Prozac daily for quite a long time and it seems to help her cope. She used to obsess and worry about every damn thing. I am the opposite and worry about very little. That probably made it worse for her also that I was care free while she drove herself nuts with worry....
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If it works for her, that's a good thing. :) Medication isn't for everyone and I definitely think there's a tendency to overprescribe. Life has its ups and downs and a stressful or blue patch here and there is going to happen. But long bouts of nameless, crushing depression with no real reason, or total out-of control nervousness and anxiety - meds can be a literal lifeline. Some people swear by herbals and other "alternative" treatments and if that seems to do the trick for them - AWESOME. My experiments with such, admittedly limited since I am a bit of a skeptic, weren't so successful so I favor modern pharmaceuticals to treat depression.

 

I may always be on a low-moderate dose of an SSRI, and that's fine. It has few listed side effects - NONE in my case except for some wacky dreams - and it works.

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Seems like that stuff may kill libido too, or maybe it's just being married to me...... :huh: :)
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That is a listed side effect of Lexapro as well, but I was too in the dumps to be feelin' the sexy anyway, so I barely noticed! Now, once I leveled out I did have issues with, ahem, anorgasmia, which was kind of a downer. But my body adapted and now it's not a problem anymore.

 

Plus my husband is on medication for hypertension, which also can cause the same problem. Makes us a good match!

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Seems like that stuff may kill libido too, or maybe it's just being married to me...... :huh: :)

That, my friend, is all TOO common, and mostly associated with females. Meds impact people—PERIOD. No way around it. According to statistics female usage of prescribed medication dwarfs that of men...except for boys diagnosed with ADHD. It's the reverse in that gender and age group.

 

I'll admit that I'm not sold on the benefit of psyche meds...people are all too eager to throw pills in their mouth in order to take the edge off their stress levels.

 

The pharmaceutical companies are making addicts by the tens of thousands with drugs that they have no real idea how it will impact people later in life.

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Seems like that stuff may kill libido too, or maybe it's just being married to me...... :huh: :)

That, my friend, is all TOO common, and mostly associated with females. Meds impact people—PERIOD. No way around it. According to statistics female usage of prescribed medication dwarfs that of men...except for boys diagnosed with ADHD. It's the reverse in that gender and age group.

 

I'll admit that I'm not sold on the benefit of psyche meds...people are all too eager to throw pills in their mouth in order to take the edge off their stress levels.

 

The pharmaceutical companies are making addicts by the tens of thousands with drugs that they have no real idea how it will impact people later in life.

It seems a horny pill should at least go along with them to counterbalance the effects.... :)
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Seems like that stuff may kill libido too, or maybe it's just being married to me...... :huh: :)

That, my friend, is all TOO common, and mostly associated with females. Meds impact people—PERIOD. No way around it. According to statistics female usage of prescribed medication dwarfs that of men...except for boys diagnosed with ADHD. It's the reverse in that gender and age group.

 

I'll admit that I'm not sold on the benefit of psyche meds...people are all too eager to throw pills in their mouth in order to take the edge off their stress levels.

 

The pharmaceutical companies are making addicts by the tens of thousands with drugs that they have no real idea how it will impact people later in life.

It seems a horny pill should at least go along with them to counterbalance the effects.... :)

Libido oddly returns to somewhat normal levels when people commit to physical excercise. Sex is THE stress reliever when done right.

 

 

 

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For some people, these medications work. They work for Mara. She feels better while on them so I support her decision to stay on them. I've seen what crippling depression does to a person. And I've seen what happens when that person does nothing for it.
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For some people, these medications work. They work for Mara. She feels better while on them so I support her decision to stay on them. I've seen what crippling depression does to a person. And I've seen what happens when that person does nothing for it.

Hey whatever works for her. There is a correlation between psych med usage and the rise of dementia cases. Its the same for females who take xanax or lortab with children they give birth to. A much, much higher percentage are developmentally delayed than kids with a mom not taking those meds.

 

I'll bet a pot brownie would prove just as effective with a much more predictable outcome. As a culture we are too eager to trust the pharmaceutical companies.

Edited by Tombstone Mountain
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For some people, these medications work. They work for Mara. She feels better while on them so I support her decision to stay on them. I've seen what crippling depression does to a person. And I've seen what happens when that person does nothing for it.

Hey whatever works for her but there is a correlation between psych med usage and dementia. I'll bet a pot brownie would prove just as effective though.

Don't stress Mara out. She has no brownie, her meds may not have fully kicked in yet and she can't have an "O".
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Meds don't work for everyone, but for others it works wonders- YOU know what your body needs, YOU know what helps. You got this *hugs*
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Honestly if it works for you Mara, despite my beliefs and what the personally did to me and my long term health I think it's a good thing.

 

But you have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are. I know they engineer this stuff in labs and don't know ALL the long term effects because they havent been tested and studied for 30+ years yet. Just something to ponder.

 

I personally couldn't stay on meds because the wrong ones threw me into mania or made me pass out. And the ones that stabilized my moods took HIGH tolls on my liver and heart rate and made my metabolism and thyroid shot to shit.

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl. I felt like my skin was crawling, I felt soooo terrible, depressed etc... and it dawned on me that ANYTHING that has that kind of hold on me isn't good for me. And that's when the seeking alternatives for controlling my bipolar cycles came.

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You have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are.

 

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl.

 

It is drug withdrawal. You nailed it. Doctors who prescribe this stuff are woefully ignorant of the implications of this stuff, yet prescribe it with great regularity. Why?

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You have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are.

 

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl.

 

It is drug withdrawal. You nailed it. Doctors who prescribe this stuff are woefully ignorant of the implications of this stuff, yet prescribe it with great regularity. Why?

 

Easy answer. Kick backs.

 

My sister is kind of going through this now. Her doctor put her on Paxil and she's been on it for quite a few years. When she initially went on it she was under major stress because her son was in kidney failure. Since he passed away a couple of years ago she's finding that she's under much less stress but she still on the same amount of medication and she's having side effects she never had before. But if she tries the wean herself off of it she has worst side effects yet. Drugs are a necessity but a horrible necessity at times. A lot of times the withdrawals and side effects can be worse than what they treat.

Edited by EagleMoon
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They do not work for everyone, as I stated in the earlier post. There are also far too many people who use them as a crutch; my SIL seems to think that being on antidepressants puts her in some sort of special protected class of people and she blames EVERYTHING on her paxil and xanax combo. Her excuse for taking it is - "I teach, and all of the teachers are on something because teaching is so stressful!" Um, yeah, it is, but you guys need to maybe investigate some other ways of dealing with stress.

 

With regards to withdrawal - I did not have any physical symptoms. I tapered off gradually; cold turkey is never recommended for SSRIs and a lot of other classes of drugs. And fortunately I was able to make the connection early between being off meds and my state of mind, before I started experiencing debilitating depression.

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You have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are.

 

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl.

 

It is drug withdrawal. You nailed it. Doctors who prescribe this stuff are woefully ignorant of the implications of this stuff, yet prescribe it with great regularity. Why?

 

Easy answer. Kick backs.

 

My sister is kind of going through this now. Her doctor put her on Paxil and she's been on it for quite a few years. When she initially went on it she was under major stress because her son was in kidney failure. Since he passed away a couple of years ago she's finding that she's under much less stress but she still on the same amount of medication and she's having side effects she never had before. But if she tries the wean herself off of it she has worst side effects yet. Drugs are a necessity but a horrible necessity at times. A lot of times the withdrawals and side effects can be worse than what they treat.

 

The kickbacks have been seriously curtailed by federal law in the past few years. I'm sure there are loopholes here and there, but doctors can no longer accept so much as a free ballpoint pen from a pharmaceutical company or distributor. My mom worked for one of the big international manufacturers and I remember when the new laws took effect. They were stuck with hundreds of thousands of now-worthless promotional items. No one in my family will ever have to purchase Post-It notes or memo pads ever again; Mom's got a closet full!

 

I do get blood draws twice/year to make sure my liver and kidney function isn't being affected.

 

I recommend always asking a pharmacist rather than a doctor for anyone who's ever got questions about particular drugs or drug combinations, even just over the counter stuff.

Edited by Mara
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You have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are.

 

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl.

 

It is drug withdrawal. You nailed it. Doctors who prescribe this stuff are woefully ignorant of the implications of this stuff, yet prescribe it with great regularity. Why?

 

Easy answer. Kick backs.

 

My sister is kind of going through this now. Her doctor put her on Paxil and she's been on it for quite a few years. When she initially went on it she was under major stress because her son was in kidney failure. Since he passed away a couple of years ago she's finding that she's under much less stress but she still on the same amount of medication and she's having side effects she never had before. But if she tries the wean herself off of it she has worst side effects yet. Drugs are a necessity but a horrible necessity at times. A lot of times the withdrawals and side effects can be worse than what they treat.

 

The kickbacks have been seriously curtailed by federal law in the past few years. I'm sure there are loopholes here and there, but doctors can no longer accept so much as a free ballpoint pen from a pharmaceutical company or distributor. My mom worked for one of the big international manufacturers and I remember when the new laws took effect. They were stuck with hundreds of thousands of now-worthless promotional items. No one in my family will ever have to purchase Post-It notes or memo pads ever again; Mom's got a closet full!

 

I do get blood draws twice/year to make sure my liver and kidney function isn't being affected.

 

You still see the guys with samples coming in and giving them to the doctors though. Laws or not. Glad to hear that you get blood tests. That's always good to keep on top of things. Personally I hate taking pills but sometimes you just have to.

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Seems like that stuff may kill libido too, or maybe it's just being married to me...... :huh: :)

That, my friend, is all TOO common, and mostly associated with females. Meds impact people—PERIOD. No way around it. According to statistics female usage of prescribed medication dwarfs that of men...except for boys diagnosed with ADHD. It's the reverse in that gender and age group.

 

I'll admit that I'm not sold on the benefit of psyche meds...people are all too eager to throw pills in their mouth in order to take the edge off their stress levels.

 

The pharmaceutical companies are making addicts by the tens of thousands with drugs that they have no real idea how it will impact people later in life.

It seems a horny pill should at least go along with them to counterbalance the effects.... :)

Libido oddly returns to somewhat normal levels when people commit to physical excercise. Sex is THE stress reliever when done right.

It probably doesn't relieve stress if its not done at all..... :)
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Honestly if it works for you Mara, despite my beliefs and what the personally did to me and my long term health I think it's a good thing.

 

But you have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are. I know they engineer this stuff in labs and don't know ALL the long term effects because they havent been tested and studied for 30+ years yet. Just something to ponder.

 

I personally couldn't stay on meds because the wrong ones threw me into mania or made me pass out. And the ones that stabilized my moods took HIGH tolls on my liver and heart rate and made my metabolism and thyroid shot to shit.

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl. I felt like my skin was crawling, I felt soooo terrible, depressed etc... and it dawned on me that ANYTHING that has that kind of hold on me isn't good for me. And that's when the seeking alternatives for controlling my bipolar cycles came.

 

 

Did you taper off your meds or quit cold turkey?

 

When I was in high school I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. For eight years I took a combination of an SSRI and a benzodiazepine, first Zoloft and Tranxene, then Lexapro and Xanax. Needless to say, such a potent combo helped my anxiety, but I realized that my mood had been "flatlined", no real highs or lows. I eventually decided to find out what my "normal" state of mind should be, so I quit cold turkey. I finished my meds and never returned to the psychiatrist for refills.

 

Withdrawal, which I suspect was from the Xanax and not the Lexapro, was horrible. Insomnia was a terrible problem for the first few weeks, my anxiety level shot through the roof, and to say I was irritable would have been an understatement. My sleep gradually improved, but it took 3 or 4 months before all of the symptoms subsided.

 

I realized that the meds were indeed a crutch, and that there were alternative methods to deal with my anxiety. There are obviously people who truly need psychiatric drugs to function normally, but I wasn't one of them.

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You have to wonder, if it was the withdrawl symptoms from the medications that were making you feel worse than you actually are.

 

 

I can also say that going off meds when I did it was like drug withdrawl.

 

It is drug withdrawal. You nailed it. Doctors who prescribe this stuff are woefully ignorant of the implications of this stuff, yet prescribe it with great regularity. Why?

 

 

A big problem is that GPs who aren't qualified to diagnose and treat psychiatric disorders are far too willing to dole them out like candy on Halloween. I know many people who've gone to the doctor and complained about feeling blue and were prescribed anti-depressants; I doubt any of them were clinically depressed. It's impossible to diagnose a mental disorder based on a ten minute conversation with a family practitioner.

 

A common practice today seems to be prescribing an anti-psychotic like Abilify or Seroquel as an adjunct to anti-depressants. Clearly, there are cases where an anti-psychotic would be called for (e.g., schizophrenia), but the risk of side effects, such as tardive dyskinesia, would seem to outweigh the benefits for a depressed patient who isn't psychotic.

 

In Australia, Seroquel is even commonly prescribed for insomnia!

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Here's what sort of defined it for me.

 

I'd be depressed - as in confined-to-the-house-almost-immobile, disengaged depressed regardless of external conditions. To me, and to people who knew me, it didn't make sense; outwardly everything was fine. I'd have the usual common stressors like bills and all, but I had/have a good job. No family problems, husband could not be more faithful and loving (if a bit exasperating at times, hee-hee), and I was physically healthy.

 

So it made no sense to anyone, including me, why I'd feel as though I was drowning in some kind of nameless sorrow. It is not normal. Telling myself that there was no reason for it and I that I had tons of reasons to be happy did no good. My favorite explanation of this condition (thanks to Hyperbole and A Half):

 

"Trying to use willpower to overcome the apathetic sort of sadness that accompanies depression is like a person with no arms trying to punch themselves until their hands grow back. A fundamental component of the plan is missing and it isn't going to work."

 

So for whatever reason, my neurological wiring seems to have a bit of a short in it somewhere in the part that utilizes serotonin. SSRIs remedy that for me, and I am grateful the technology exists.

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Here's what sort of defined it for me.

 

I'd be depressed - as in confined-to-the-house-almost-immobile, disengaged depressed regardless of external conditions. To me, and to people who knew me, it didn't make sense; outwardly everything was fine. I'd have the usual common stressors like bills and all, but I had/have a good job. No family problems and I was physically healthy.

 

So it made no sense to anyone, including me, why I'd feel as though I was drowning in some kind of nameless sorrow. It is not normal. Telling myself that there was no reason for it

It's all too common Mara. Humanity has been dealing with this forever.

 

Gandhi and CS Lewis called it the "God-shaped" hole. A hole that can only be filled by God. Whether or not you believe in a god isn't relevant. Everyone experiences this emptiness. How we try to fill it varies from person to person.

 

Doctors have become our defacto "priests". They give hope found in a pill.

 

This struggle is one reason I'm attracted to Neil's lyrics. He wrestles with this struggle trying to make sense of it.

 

IMO

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