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Hold Your Fire: the directors' cuts?


Ged Lent's sis
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Hold Your Fire or Fire away  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. If HYF had been limited to 22'30" per side, would it have been perfect?

    • Nah, I wouldn't like it anyway.
    • No way, José Feliciano, leave it the way it is!
    • Absolutely. See my track list is in the comments section.


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All right, I'll change up the running order while I'm doing my editing.

 

Side 1

Force Ten

Open Secrets

Tai Shan

Lock and Key

 

Side 2

Time Stand Still

High Water

Second Nature

Mission

 

It's way too soft and loungy, but it's like that even when the junk I cut is included. It's a Hold Your Fire I like a little more on the whole, and I wouldn't care if no one else would bother to listen past track two.

I like the one of the songs you removed. Or—that is—I don't one of them. Oh yeah, same difference. I'm actually surprised that someone has chosen Prime Mover for the axe. Oh, well. It's your record.

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All right, I'll change up the running order while I'm doing my editing.

 

Side 1

Force Ten

Open Secrets

Tai Shan

Lock and Key

 

Side 2

Time Stand Still

High Water

Second Nature

Mission

 

It's way too soft and loungy, but it's like that even when the junk I cut is included. It's a Hold Your Fire I like a little more on the whole, and I wouldn't care if no one else would bother to listen past track two.

I like the one of the songs you removed. Or—that is—I don't one of them. Oh yeah, same difference. I'm actually surprised that someone has chosen Prime Mover for the axe. Oh, well. It's your record.

 

It's interesting to see what other people's omissions would do to our own impressions of the record. Hold Your Fire would plummet in my Rush album rankings if Lock and Key were cut.

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It's interesting to see what other people's omissions would do to our own impressions of the record. Hold Your Fire would plummet in my Rush album rankings if Lock and Key were cut.

For me, it's between Lock and Key and one that you omitted. They seem like twins and I can't decide which has elements I like more. I figure if I'm gonna start this discussion, I gotta listen to both versions to see which flows best.

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I'd have been happier with the record had it not included Turn the Page and Prime Mover.

 

They could've written the songs and learned from them without including them, thus making me happy and not sacrificing any beneficial learning experiences. Doesn't matter what fans of those songs think, of course.

O.M.F.G. Surely you mean Tai Shan and Highwater? Or maybe even Tai Shan and Second Nature? WTF? Seriously? Turn The Page is CLEARLY one of the best songs on the album, and Prime Mover is pretty killer too. Lay down the pipe, sir, and back away...
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HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play! Side 1

Force Ten

Time Stand Still

Second Nature

Prime Mover

 

Side 2

Lock And Key

Open Secrets

Mission

Turn the Page

Edited by losingit2k
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Just hack off those last two songs at the end and you have a perfect damn album. :yes:

 

It's not exactly what I'd do, but I liked anyone who's played anyway. So are you saying that you'd move Prime Mover over to open side 2?

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Just hack off those last two songs at the end and you have a perfect damn album. :yes:

 

It's not exactly what I'd do, but I liked anyone who's played anyway. So are you saying that you'd move Prime Mover over to open side 2?

 

Prime Mover would be an excellent choice to END the album with, AND it happens to be my favorite song on the album! :cheers:

 

One advantage of having the two bad songs on the album at the end, however, is I never need to hit the skip button. The album is just over after the first 8 songs. ;)

Edited by rushgoober
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uH4kswkyXtk/Ug4K2MGgGoI/AAAAAAAAC34/aypXUM-kAmQ/s400/HYF.png

Interesting overlaps and utter divergences in taste here.

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yeah missteps can lead to greater missteps...take Presto for example

imho, RTB to Counterparts supports my earlier post. And I can say the same about S&A to CA

 

I'll never understand all the RTB hate by hard core Rush fans. RTB sold about a million more records than presto, winning back old fans scared away by the synth era and getting a whole new generation into Rush. It sold about as much as CP and Presto combined, and for good reason. Now, the sound advancement in CP was great, but I don't think that has anything to do with RTB's "failures" and has more to do with the gradual movement back to a sound fit for a trio.

I agree...RTB has some fantastic cuts...and it's playful as well. Bass sounds awesome
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That's pretty cool dude!

 

:rush: :haz: :rush:

Thanks! I forgot rushgoober, so I hope this is right...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XpuyyFVo8Bc/Ug5UY5Jg1nI/AAAAAAAAC4w/tD0ol0Rf0Ok/s600/LEDRUSH+LOSING+IT.png

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RTTONMLGss4/Ug5UacApbkI/AAAAAAAAC44/iuranfjGF3w/s600/CYCLONUS+RUSHGOOBER.png

Edited by Ged Lent's sis
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You could make mine like those but still put the other two songs on them and then in parentheses (Bonus cut) ;)
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That's pretty cool dude!

 

:rush: :haz: :rush:

Thanks! I forgot rushgoober, so I hope this is right...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XpuyyFVo8Bc/Ug5UY5Jg1nI/AAAAAAAAC4w/tD0ol0Rf0Ok/s600/LEDRUSH+LOSING+IT.png

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RTTONMLGss4/Ug5UacApbkI/AAAAAAAAC44/iuranfjGF3w/s600/CYCLONUS+RUSHGOOBER.png

 

Ha, these are awesome. Very nice work.

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HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play! Side 1

Force Ten

Time Stand Still

Second Nature

Prime Mover

 

Side 2

Lock And Key

Open Secrets

Mission

Turn the Page

 

HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!? :|

 

It's lyrically and musically and arrangment wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.

Edited by jnoble
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HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!? :|

 

It's lyrically and musically and arrangement wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.

With these explicit thoughts, you effectively express, at least in part, how I felt/feel about HYF. On the one hand, it's got a sonic breadth of warmth that's an undeniable extension of Power Windows, showcasing a band stretching out as they always had, which is why I love them and have a unique fondness for the album. On the other hand, HYF has the first RUSH selections I would classify as a "guilty pleasure".

 

I would only amend that—while they may not have made themselves famous (they already were)--it did win them a whole new classification of fan(s):

LedRush often mentions the fact that many fans were turned off by the synth era. This record represents the pinnacle of what turned them off. Me, not being one of those—I followed Signals >> p/g >> PoW with great interest and intense joy—it represents more the beginnings of a pattern of musical arrangement (especially the vocal arrangements) that seemed less creative somehow.

 

But I'd be lying to deny that the effect LedRush is talking about might not have at least indirect influence on what, hehe, lead RUSH in this direction:

Was HYF an example of RUSH stretching out, or was it just Ged getting a little busier on each record? And what effect might Neil's lyrical content have had on Geddy's arrangement of the same (extending beyond the "synth era" and into what followed)??

 

Thanks to the great documentary that is every RUSH fan's wet-dream, we now know that Lerxst was indeed annoyed by having to find a place within this apex of his childhood friend's hyper-digit experimentation. That the band went on to thrive beyond this stage of their development, that Ged pulled back from the keys for the cohesion of the greater project, and that they are still making music is a singular example in the history of music.

 

HYF represents to me all of that. So my idea with this post & poll was meant more as a tribute to a momentous album and the plethora of divergent experience it inspired.

 

As I sit here listening to LedRush's production, I'll leave you with the following thought:

HOLD YOUR FIRE is the last album I bought, brought home, placed in the player and sat in my special seat facing my big-ass JBL speakers to form an isosceles triangle for optimum effect, paged through the liner notes & lyrics and lay back & shut my eyes. Actually, it was the only time I ever took the mesh guard off the speaker cabinets. I'll never forget how the woofer vibrated as FORCE TEN ushered in the beginning of that experience. One of a kind.

 

Having said all of that, listening to your alternate compilations of eight more closely brings back that feeling than listening to the original ten. And I still can't decide which is the last song I wanna cut. One day it's LOCK AND KEY the next it's TURN THE PAGE. Who knows, maybe listening to losingit2k's production will change my mind and I'll leave both in and give something else the axe. It is an interesting choice to open and close Side 2 with those songs, respectively. Maybe the extra song in between and their acting as bookends will reshape my feeling of each's superfluousness.

 

So far, thanks for indulging me and playing along!

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The album packs so much meaning for me personally. I really get a lot out of it. My teen years were the synth years. I began Junior high with Signals and ended high school and began college with Hold Your Fire. I tend not to think of Rush and what instrument dominates on any particular album because if I did, the magic would be lost.
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HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play! Side 1

Force Ten

Time Stand Still

Second Nature

Prime Mover

 

Side 2

Lock And Key

Open Secrets

Mission

Turn the Page

 

HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!? :|

 

It's lyrically and musically and arrangment wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.

 

Everything needs to change to stay alive. RUSH has been able to accomplish this more than any band I know. I see HYF as one end of a full circle which began with the Title album and culminated with Clockwork Angels and HYF lies smack in the middle of this journey. Initially I like the entire album but as time progressed the last two songs have not held up to the test of time IMO. The rest still have that progressive edge I come to expect from every RUSH song. This album hold a special place in my heart for its when Albums turned into CDs. This was the the only RUSH album I bought both versions upon release. HYF was the first CD I ever had and I played it religiously! It was also the last album that received heavy airplay on the radio. I remember hearing just about every song at what time or another. Its a well crafted album and the Tour was equally as great! It was a great album during a great time in my life!

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Well, Tai Shan. It's finally not sounding too good to me. A.so either Ooen Secrets or Second Nature need to go

Yikes. I shutter to think of HYF without Open Secrets. Nevertheless, would you leave the running order otherwise the same?

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The only time the song quality and momentum drop for me is on the last two tracks. I think the album is great up until Tai Shan just about kills everything. High Water is a decent tune but it just isn't on the same level of the first eight songs. If they had made this like the three albums before it and only had eight songs, ending the album with Turn The Page, it would be pretty close to a perfect album for me.

DITTO!!!
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sometimes a song heard all by itself takes on a new feel often than when heard with the other songs on the album. I can see why people might diss Tai Shan and High Water. When I first bought the album, I felt the same as most that those two songs seemed out of place or unnecessary. I grew to love them though even though I never disliked them. I think High Water is a good song to listen to by itself and Tai Shan as well.
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