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Geddy called Tai Shan "an error"!!!!!!!!


WavesandWindows
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So, I was reading about Hold Your Fire (my new favourite Rush album) , and stumbled across a little interview from 2009 in which Ged called Tai Shan an error and claimed that the band should have known better....

 

WHISKEY

TANGO

FOXTROT

 

So, one of my current favourite Rush tunes was "an error" that "the band should have known better" than to make. This is, in my opinion, one of the worst things I've ever heard Ged say. It's one of the more uplifting songs I've heard them make and I really love it more and more with each listen, yet he calls it an error they should have known better about, just.............ARGGH!!!

 

Anyway, what's your opinion on this old [but still angrying] quote from Geddy? Do you think he's right, or do you think otherwise?

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Considering that Geddy is the artist, I'm inclined to agree with him. If he thinks that Tai Shan was an "error" then that's his opinion. Truthfully, though, Tai Shan is a beautiful song and I actually like it. Dog Years is the real error.
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He's entitled to his opinion. I think it's a little ungracious for artists to dis their own work in view of fans who love it, and I feel that it's better for artists to keep their negative opinions about their work to themselves to avoid insulting the tastes and feelings of their fans, but hey, artists are human and have tastes and feelings of their own and sometimes they really want to express them. It doesn't mean that their opinions are "right." They're just opinions.
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Honestly, I find the band's opinions on any given song or album of theirs to be just another opinion, even considering they're the ones who actually wrote/performed/recorded the song. It just so happens in this case that I agree with Geddy. There have been other times the band expressed love of a song or album that I hated. I think people put a lot of credence in what the band thinks, but it doesn't matter much to me.

 

That said, there are albums I particularly love by bands that aren't considered to be their best by far, and that the band members themselves have spoken against in some way; Lizard by King Crimson and Tales From Topograhic Oceans by Yes. I do find it a bit sad that some people involved reject their own works when I love it so much, but at the end of the day it's just one more person's opinion.

 

I absolutely LOVE Hold Your Fire. I think it's an incredible and criminally underrated album. It would easily be in my top 5 Rush albums ever, possibly top 3... if not for those two lemons at the end of the album. High Water and Tai Shan were indeed errors and are not worthy of the rest of the material on that album. Just one person's opinion. Some people, however, really get caught up in one person's opinion, no matter who that person might be. ;)

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He's entitled to his opinion. I think it's a little ungracious for artists to dis their own work in view of fans who love it, and I feel that it's better for artists to keep their negative opinions about their work to themselves to avoid insulting the tastes and feelings of their fans, but hey, artists are human and have tastes and feelings of their own and sometimes they really want to express them. It doesn't mean that their opinions are "right." They're just opinions.

 

I understand, but I'd rather them be honest. If people are so caught up in their love of a song or album that it bothers them what someone else thinks, maybe they're a little TOO invested. ;)

 

That said, I like to fiercely debate my points of view on songs and albums (you might have noticed), but mostly I just think people are crazy if they disagree with me and don't take it to heart. I wish more people just thought I was crazy (which they probably do anyway) and didn't take my opinions so seriously. ;) ;)

 

And yes, I am fully cognizant how quickly I made this thread about me. I only do that because I'm just so darn GOOD at doing that. :P

Edited by rushgoober
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Overall, I don't think Tai Shan is a bad song but it's a real momentum killer on the album. The first eight songs on HYF are so good and take you on a great ride but then Tai Shan comes and kills everything the album had built up to at that point. The song might be seen differently by a lot of fans if it didn't follow such great tunes like Mission and Turn The Page as well. It's a decent tune but it just seems so out of place an odd compared to how good the album is up until that point. Edited by J2112YYZ
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I like Tain Shan: it is a good song on an album which isn't very good. But I have heard Geddy talk about how that song was a mistake, and he has used it as an example about how on this album the band went too far into keyboards and lost who they were a little bit. While I agree with his general point, the lyrics and mood of the song really transport me and are easy for me to get caught up in. However, for me this is easier as I've been to Tai Shan and I associate the song with my wonderful memories of the place.

 

Geddy and Neil have also trashed Caress of Steel (perhaps my favorite album) and Fountain of Lammeth (which I adore). I'd rather they like what I do, but it doesn't make me like the songs any less. The only downside to the band not liking a song you love is that they won't play it live. Otherwise, I find it interesting, but otherwise irrelevant to my enjoyment.

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Sorry guys, I didn't actually mean to explode. I agree that Ged, like the rest of Rush are more than entitled to their opinions on their songs, but I'd have explained how it was an error instead of just out and out saying "it's an error and we should've known better".

 

It does explain why they don't play it live though, right?

 

Do forgive me if you see this Geddy! I was a little upset at first, but you are entitled to your opinion, even though I see your error as a calculated success

 

 

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Hold Your Fire is also my favorite album. When I first got it, I thought the last two tracks were the weakest as well, but over time they grew on me. Had this been another 8 song album like its predecessors, Turn the Page would have been a wonderful "outro" or last song to complete the HYF experience.

 

Tai Shan was one of those songs they wrote knowing they would never play it live. It was (and maybe still is) a tradition of theirs to put a song on an album without worrying about how to carry it off live.

 

I can see why some would not like it. It is an acquired taste. Geddy seems to also not like "Rivendell" which is a similar type of song. That one also took a while to grow on me.

 

As for the tour, they played 6 of the 10 songs on that tour. Songs not played were Open Secrets, Second Nature, Tai Shan and High Water.

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So, I was reading about Hold Your Fire (my new favourite Rush album) , and stumbled across a little interview from 2009 in which Ged called Tai Shan an error and claimed that the band should have known better....

 

WHISKEY

TANGO

FOXTROT

 

So, one of my current favourite Rush tunes was "an error" that "the band should have known better" than to make. This is, in my opinion, one of the worst things I've ever heard Ged say. It's one of the more uplifting songs I've heard them make and I really love it more and more with each listen, yet he calls it an error they should have known better about, just.............ARGGH!!!

 

Anyway, what's your opinion on this old [but still angrying] quote from Geddy? Do you think he's right, or do you think otherwise?

 

Don't get too bent out of shape about it, the whole band considers Caress of Steel an error too.

Nothing you can do about it, just enjoy the music!

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The China Sang To Me Song is a load of old bollocks. Geddy is right.

 

Exactly.

 

My opinion of this song has always been, "Neil, I'm glad that China sang to you. No seriously, I'm really happy for you. I just don't need to hear about it." :no:

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What separates Tai Shan from High Water is, among other things, that the former is a tone poem of sorts about a personal and passionate bicycle journey, while the latter is an exploration and celebration of the role of an element in our development and identity. Tai Shan's music seems firmly rooted in its cultural context and scale, but High Water's music actually builds and builds in layers and layers, mimicking our own evolutionary development, etc.

 

That's why High Water gets marks over Tai Shan.

 

That, and Tai Shan is simply so cheesy it makes Velveeta look sophisticated.

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What separates Tai Shan from High Water is, among other things, that the former is a tone poem of sorts about a personal and passionate bicycle journey, while the latter is an exploration and celebration of the role of an element in our development and identity. Tai Shan's music seems firmly rooted in its cultural context and scale, but High Water's music actually builds and builds in layers and layers, mimicking our own evolutionary development, etc.

 

That's why High Water gets marks over Tai Shan.

 

That, and Tai Shan is simply so cheesy it makes Velveeta look sophisticated.

If Peart bicycled up Tai Shan then he probably set some world record. Doing such a feat would likely require a specially made bike and legs of pure steel...those '7000 stairs' ain't no exaggeration. And in parts, the stairs appear more like a ladder
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Tai Shan was the end of how far Rush could go with keyboard music. I remember being disappointed when Geddy played Red Sector A on keys with no bass and then they just kept getting softer and softer. His bass playing on that album is amazing and deserves all the praise it gets around here, but I was tired of the route Alex had taken. I'm glad they got a new producer and started turning it around. Hold Your Fire is fine, I still like it, but the keyboards should augment their music not dominate it. Just my opinion, but I think the band agrees.

 

I guess you also have to put the album in context. The 1980s were a very bad decade for hard rocking prog music.

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What separates Tai Shan from High Water is, among other things, that the former is a tone poem of sorts about a personal and passionate bicycle journey, while the latter is an exploration and celebration of the role of an element in our development and identity. Tai Shan's music seems firmly rooted in its cultural context and scale, but High Water's music actually builds and builds in layers and layers, mimicking our own evolutionary development, etc.

 

That's why High Water gets marks over Tai Shan.

 

That, and Tai Shan is simply so cheesy it makes Velveeta look sophisticated.

If Peart bicycled up Tai Shan then he probably set some world record. Doing such a feat would likely require a specially made bike and legs of pure steel...those '7000 stairs' ain't no exaggeration. And in parts, the stairs appear more like a ladder

 

Well, not exactly bicycled UP Tai Shan, but went here whilst on a bike journey through China in the 80's.

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Tai Shan was the end of how far Rush could go with keyboard music. I remember being disappointed when Geddy played Red Sector A on keys with no bass and then they just kept getting softer and softer. His bass playing on that album is amazing and deserves all the praise it gets around here, but I was tired of the route Alex had taken. I'm glad they got a new producer and started turning it around. Hold Your Fire is fine, I still like it, but the keyboards should augment their music not dominate it. Just my opinion, but I think the band agrees.

 

I guess you also have to put the album in context. The 1980s were a very bad decade for hard rocking prog music.

 

 

Much of what you say is true and I don't want keys to dominate a Rush record but I really miss the keys for flavor and atmosphere. They really help set a mood. Kind of like the role the strings played on CA. I think many of the songs on CA wouldn't be nearly as good without the strings. They are sublime on songs like The Wreckers and The Garden.

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Geddy has also been quoted saying that he feels like Tai Shan was such a personal experience for Neil that it was weird for them to have it on the album and that it would have been better to keep it that way - as just a personal experience.

 

I like that better than calling it an "error".

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