Noob to the forum: what is this time sig change in "The Trees?"

[matthewpartrick]

The little classical intro seems to be in 3/4, easy enough, the first virse is 4/4. Around about the 1:22 mark it goes to 6/8 I think, can someone confirm?

 

Now it gets confusing: what's going on with the bass at 2:55?

 

What's the time sig from 2:30 to 2:50?

 

How about from 2:50 to 2:58?

 

Crazy stuff! Anything you could do to help wound be appreciated.

[HemiBeers]

welcome to the forum. usually I don't try to analyze time sigs in rush songs because it's tricky as calculus. I just listen to the song until the time changes absorb into my gray matter. are you doing this for a music theory project?

[goose]

:hi:

 

Welcome to TRF! Here's a link to the RUSH Tablature Project. http://www.cygnusproductions.com/rtp/guitar/guitar.asp

 

The Trees is one of the songs with tabs, which show a progression of...

 

6/8.

 

4/4.

 

5/4.

 

6/4.

 

5/4.

 

4/4.

[Digital Dad]

:hi:

 

Welcome to TRF! Here's a link to the RUSH Tablature Project. http://www.cygnusproductions.com/rtp/guitar/guitar.asp

 

The Trees is one of the songs with tabs, which show a progression of...

 

6/8.

 

4/4.

 

5/4.

 

6/4.

 

5/4.

 

4/4.

[Digital Dad]

They can only play in 4? How Lazy.

[goose]

They can only play in 4? How Lazy.

:goodone: The album Hemispheres was the beginning of the end for me. It marks the point where RUSH settled into complacency, re-hashing tired mainstream rock riffs borrowed from the likes of Bad Company. A real :zzz: -fest.

[x1yyz]

 

 

Hi there Goose man, we've missed you!

[Your_Lion]

Spoiler: At the end of the song, the trees all get turned into 2 by 4s

 

[stoopid]

Spoiler: At the end of the song, the trees all get turned into 2 by 4s

 

 

Or the paper and pencil Peart used to write the lyrics.

Edited May 12, 2016 by stoopid

[EagleMoon]

welcome to the forum. usually I don't try to analyze time sigs in rush songs because it's tricky as calculus. I just listen to the song until the time changes absorb into my gray matter. are you doing this for a music theory project?

 

I agree with this. It's interesting to know the time signatures but not necessary to learn the music.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

The key isn't important either. Who cares what key a piece of music is in? Who needs to be in tune or in time? It doesn't matter...

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

The key isn't important either. Who cares what key a piece of music is in? Who needs to be in tune or in time? It doesn't matter...

 

Sure, one could learn and play songs without knowing what keys or time sigs they're in, but then you won't have a full understanding of how the songs are constructed, which is valuable when learning other songs, and especially valuable if you want to get into writing your own stuff.

 

When I hear a song with a particularly interesting melody or chord progression, I love not only learning how to play it, but also deconstructing it to see how the composer came up with it. "So, the writer came up with a major chord there instead of the expected minor chord that would normally be played in this key -- that's why my ears perked up. Nice!" Same goes for interesting rhythm patterns -- is that an odd-time sig or just heavily syncopated 4/4?

 

Don't just learn the song, try and understand what went into it. Music appreciation, people!

[EagleMoon]

The key isn't important either. Who cares what key a piece of music is in? Who needs to be in tune or in time? It doesn't matter...

 

Sure, one could learn and play songs without knowing what keys or time sigs they're in, but then you won't have a full understanding of how the songs are constructed, which is valuable when learning other songs, and especially valuable if you want to get into writing your own stuff.

 

When I hear a song with a particularly interesting melody or chord progression, I love not only learning how to play it, but also deconstructing it to see how the composer came up with it. "So, the writer came up with a major chord there instead of the expected minor chord that would normally be played in this key -- that's why my ears perked up. Nice!" Same goes for interesting rhythm patterns -- is that an odd-time sig or just heavily syncopated 4/4?

 

Don't just learn the song, try and understand what went into it. Music appreciation, people!

 

It's good to know theory but IMO it's not necessary to learn a piece of music, Unless you really have trouble with learning odd time signatures you can play it without knowing it's in 5/4, 4/4 or whatever.

[HemiBeers]

The key isn't important either. Who cares what key a piece of music is in? Who needs to be in tune or in time? It doesn't matter...

 

Sure, one could learn and play songs without knowing what keys or time sigs they're in, but then you won't have a full understanding of how the songs are constructed, which is valuable when learning other songs, and especially valuable if you want to get into writing your own stuff.

 

When I hear a song with a particularly interesting melody or chord progression, I love not only learning how to play it, but also deconstructing it to see how the composer came up with it. "So, the writer came up with a major chord there instead of the expected minor chord that would normally be played in this key -- that's why my ears perked up. Nice!" Same goes for interesting rhythm patterns -- is that an odd-time sig or just heavily syncopated 4/4?

 

Don't just learn the song, try and understand what went into it. Music appreciation, people!

 

It's good to know theory but IMO it's not necessary to learn a piece of music, Unless you really have trouble with learning odd time signatures you can play it without knowing it's in 5/4, 4/4 or whatever.

I've been on both sides of the fence...raised on classical music training and theory, then threw that away and went totally by ear in college. It's all good to know and understand, but the music theory side of it took alot of fun away and turned it into something almost mathematical.

 

It's funny when someone mentions theory about a song to think of it that way again. I've been playing Tom Sawyer for years then a few years ago someone mentions it's in 7/4 time and it's like...oh I guess it is! I never thought of that.

Edited May 13, 2016 by 2112FirstStreet

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

It's one thing to not think about about a time signature. It's another not to care or understand how time works within the context of music.

 

I consider myself a "natural" player since I play with much instinct (since I was very little), but in order to be improvisational one needs to understand where a piece of music is going and how to get there. Theory is both a benefit and a hindrance. However being able to articulate what one can play is extremely important when playing with others.

 

Music is a language. Like speaking one's given language we learn how to speak it before being able to spell words, construct written sentences, paragraphs, etc. I really didn't start to study music theory until I was college age, well after being a competitive drummer, performed in marching and symphonic bands and made several recordings. But I have restricted my theoretical study so as not to dissuade my natural instincts. Probably not the smartest thing in the world, but I can at the very least communicate accurately musical ideas effectively to others.

 

I am not really a songwriter, though I have written several songs, wholly or in part. I am a player primarily and theory comes in very handy, but it is not the foundation of my musical abilities. The whole point is to continue to improve, even at my advanced age. Learning how things work is important to that end.

:)

[JARG]

welcome to the forum. usually I don't try to analyze time sigs in rush songs because it's tricky as calculus. I just listen to the song until the time changes absorb into my gray matter. are you doing this for a music theory project?

 

I agree with this. It's interesting to know the time signatures but not necessary to learn the music.

 

Quite true. Hell, it's not even necessary to know the names of the notes in order to learn the music.

[KenJennings]

They can only play in 4? How Lazy.

:goodone: The album Hemispheres was the beginning of the end for me. It marks the point where RUSH settled into complacency, re-hashing tired mainstream rock riffs borrowed from the likes of Bad Company. A real :zzz: -fest.

 

You mean that's when they started to evolve with the times rather than remaining stuck in the 70s?

[goose]

They can only play in 4? How Lazy.

:goodone: The album Hemispheres was the beginning of the end for me. It marks the point where RUSH settled into complacency, re-hashing tired mainstream rock riffs borrowed from the likes of Bad Company. A real :zzz: -fest.

 

You mean that's when they started to evolve with the times rather than remaining stuck in the 70s?

;)

[launchpad67a]

It's one thing to not think about about a time signature. It's another not to care or understand how time works within the context of music.

Exactly right.

Something no one is talking about in this thread is "counting". You Have to Learn To Count...period! It's the most fundamental part of all music.

If you've been playing a song for years and never realized it was in 5/4 for instance, then you really haven't been playing the song in-time, unless you count the notes in the measures. There is no way to place a note on the correct beat if you aren't counting through the song. You can't rely on feel alone to play in-time and with good rhythm. You have to count, and just as important, tap your foot.

[stoopid]

There is no way to place a note on the correct beat if you aren't counting through the song. You can't rely on feel alone to play in-time and with good rhythm.

 

I'm horrible at counting. Pretty much do it exactly opposite of what you describe, so your generalization is wrong. Living proof right here.

 

Maybe *you* can't.

Edited May 14, 2016 by stoopid

[HemiBeers]

It's one thing to not think about about a time signature. It's another not to care or understand how time works within the context of music.

Exactly right.

Something no one is talking about in this thread is "counting". You Have to Learn To Count...period! It's the most fundamental part of all music.

If you've been playing a song for years and never realized it was in 5/4 for instance, then you really haven't been playing the song in-time, unless you count the notes in the measures. There is no way to place a note on the correct beat if you aren't counting through the song. You can't rely on feel alone to play in-time and with good rhythm. You have to count, and just as important, tap your foot.

Emmm, no I respectfully disagree. If that's how you play, then great.

 

I can play the most difficult synchopated parts of Rush just from memory, without counting, tapping my foot, etc. I've heard and played the songs for so long that it's second nature. I'm not bragging, just stating a fact. I wouldn't even know how someone could count and tap their foot to the beginning of YYZ or the ending of Jacob's Ladder. It's timing learned by repetition.

 

I don't play in a band, so perhaps your style is more important playing live with other musicians. I'm just a basement player and play along with the recordings. But I've been a musician for long time so I have at least a moderate degree of competence without being a slave to the metronome.

 

John Frusciante did an interview a few years and made an interesting point that players get stuck playing on the beat so much that it becomes boring and predictable. I think that's true.

Edited May 14, 2016 by 2112FirstStreet

[JARG]

It's one thing to not think about about a time signature. It's another not to care or understand how time works within the context of music.

Exactly right.

Something no one is talking about in this thread is "counting". You Have to Learn To Count...period!

 

I have to agree with the others here who disagree with your insistence that you have to learn to count. Counting is useful at times, certainly, and I'm glad I know how to do it, but it's far from being a required skill in order to play a song. I've played many a song where I haven't bothered learning the time sig or counted beats and/or measures.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Counting is always useful. Boldly stating that learning how to count in music being not necessary is ignorant. Go ahead and limit yourselves. If you really think you are a musician if you cannot count I doubt seriously the timeliness and precision of your playing. I'm sure to yourself it seems like you might know enough to play along with recorded music but playing with real people and/or recording, heard by an audience I'm sure the audience would differ with your opinion.

:)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

The beginning of YYZ is counted 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-5-6 (one phrase). Define what is meant by the end of Jacob's Ladder and I will count that too. The hardest thing in Rush to count is the descending runs in Spirit of Radio. All one needs is understanding.

[Fridge]

I never count (though I can if I want to), I find just doing it by feel works perfectly well.

 

In fact, in my band, I am the most accurate at playing in time and knowing where things change even though I am the only one that doesn't count.

 

Mankind was making music for thousands of years before we had the benefit of maths, tablature and notation.