fraroc Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Judging from Rush's history, it almost seems as if Geddy and Alex really didn't become known as great bassists and guitarists and melody writers until John Rutsey left and Neil came in. My personal opinion is that I really don't think that Neil's influence had any affect on the skills of Geddy and Alex whatsoever. Neil is a drummer and a lyricist while Geddy and Alex wrote everything else. Do I believe that Neil is responsble for Geddy's complicated, almost "lead bass" like basslines and Alex's unusual chord patterns and solos? No. That's the sole responsibility of Geddy and Alex themselves. Did Neil inspire Geddy and Alex to utilize their talents to the max? Hell yes! But I don't think he's solely responsible for Rush being a musically great band. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djflex Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Rush is best viewed as a whole. Each is great individually yes, but the sum total is greater than the parts 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicHead Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 My take is: yes, they did...but Pratt's addition helped Dirk and Lerxst realize the fullness of their potential in that particular band environment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 No one really knew who they were until after Neil joined so question makes no sense. They were a Toronto bar band that just released an album and were about to go on first tour. Except for some Toronto partners and school kids they were literally unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 If I could somehow disagree with you more, I would. However, since I can't do that, I'll just have to settle for COMPLETELY disagreeing with you. They've been feeding off each other since they first met. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. You are who you are NOW because of every single moment you've had and every single person you've met. Certainly someone you've spent R40 years working and laughing with has pushed your work in some way towards a certain direction. Or take the most basic point: Peart and Lee are the rhythm section...of course they'd influence each other's playing. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There are plenty of fantastic musicians. Some famous and successful. Many not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 If I could somehow disagree with you more, I would. However, since I can't do that, I'll just have to settle for COMPLETELY disagreeing with you. They've been feeding off each other since they first met. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. You are who you are NOW because of every single moment you've had and every single person you've met. Certainly someone you've spent R40 years working and laughing with has pushed your work in some way towards a certain direction. Or take the most basic point: Peart and Lee are the rhythm section...of course they'd influence each other's playing. Stop making sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day of Light Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Imo the songs on the debut and Fly By Night (I understand that some of the parts were written before Neil's inclusion in the band) have a sound that is already more technical than most rock songs. Geddy and Alex were talented and understood how to write interesting music, so I think they would've had ok success. The problem is that the glimpse into pre-Neil era we have is essentially a juvenile Led Zeppelin-lite. There's no doubt about Neil making the band better and ultimately being the reason they're Rush. And they most certainly wouldn't have written the music they've written if Neil hadn't existed. So they're definitely fantastic musicians without Neil's influence, but I don't think "fantastic" is quite cutting it considering the unique thing they became. edit: also the question you asked in the title does not correspond to the point you're arguing. Did Ged and Alex have it in them to be fantastic musicians without Neil? Yes. Did Neil's inclusion have an effect on their skill level? Absolutely yes. Edited February 6, 2016 by Day of Light 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x1yyz Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Judging from Rush's history, it almost seems as if Geddy and Alex really didn't become known as great bassists and guitarists and melody writers until John Rutsey left and Neil came in. This is true, but it is likely a function of time rather than anything else. Geddy and Alex would have become better musicians with time regardless of Neil's involvement. However, the three of them very probably encouraged one another to improve as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Imo the songs on the debut and Fly By Night (I understand that some of the parts were written before Neil's inclusion in the band) have a sound that is already more technical than most rock songs. Geddy and Alex were talented and understood how to write interesting music, so I think they would've had ok success. The problem is that the glimpse into pre-Neil era we have is essentially a juvenile Led Zeppelin-lite. There's no doubt about Neil making the band better and ultimately being the reason they're Rush. And they most certainly wouldn't have written the music they've written if Neil hadn't existed. So they're definitely fantastic musicians without Neil's influence, but I don't think "fantastic" is quite cutting it considering the unique thing they became. edit: also the question you asked in the title does not correspond to the point you're arguing. Did Ged and Alex have it in them to be fantastic musicians without Neil? Yes. Did Neil's inclusion have an effect on their skill level? Absolutely yes. ahhh yes the old false premise fallacy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefox4000 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 They would have all become great musicians on their own.........but that combo only served them better. Mick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Yes, without a doubt. In my opinion. :) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2112YYZ Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Didn't Geddy and/or Alex say on Beyond The Lighted Stage that Neil's playing and the style he wrote lyrics pushed them to be better musicians immediately? I know one of them said this about Neil somewhere. They probably would have become very good musicians on their own. But given how generic they sounded on the first album, who knows how long that could have taken if Neil didn't come along? Geddy and Alex could have been in their 30s or 40s before they realized their full potential as musicians. Neil's unique playing and lyrical writing pushed them to mature much sooner and made them fully realize what they could do musically. I truly believe all three of them needed each other to get to the level of musicianship that they reached. They are musical soulmates and each brings out the best in each other. But Neil's influence was huge and can never be underestimated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddy's Soul Patch Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 They were also 22 when Rutsey left. Maybe they just got better? I'm sure we can give them all equal credit for inspiring each other to be the best they can be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amps211 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I've always thought they had a certain magic working for them ... just like many bands who hit it big ... to me the sort of melding of ged's voice, the lyrics/stories that NP wrote, and the AL / GL jam sessions that turned into the music, were just the perfect magical combination ... each guy being an excellent musician was a prerequisite ... but the magic happened when the words and music matched the story teller's voice IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Makes you wonder how people like jimmy page got so good without the assistance of NEP 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) It is one thing to be technically proficient on your instrument, yet working that ability into the framework of great songs is entirely different .. The members of Rush are great musicians in addition to being great on their instruments Sitting and practicing makes a guitar player a "good guitarist" ... Living life, writing great songs and working that into a band makes that guitar player a great musician Geddy Alex and Neil are the way they are from what they went thru together . . Edited February 6, 2016 by Lucas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Judging from Rush's history, it almost seems as if Geddy and Alex really didn't become known as great bassists and guitarists and melody writers until John Rutsey left and Neil came in. My personal opinion is that I really don't think that Neil's influence had any affect on the skills of Geddy and Alex whatsoever. Neil is a drummer and a lyricist while Geddy and Alex wrote everything else. Do I believe that Neil is responsble for Geddy's complicated, almost "lead bass" like basslines and Alex's unusual chord patterns and solos? No. That's the sole responsibility of Geddy and Alex themselves. Did Neil inspire Geddy and Alex to utilize their talents to the max? Hell yes! But I don't think he's solely responsible for Rush being a musically great band.That's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Makes you wonder how people like jimmy page got so good without the assistance of NEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 If you were a musician and played with other musicians you would know how much other people influence you by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Douglas Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Working man -with its it compelling guitar solo- put them on the map... Neils incredible skill provides a foundation that allows them to explore and create in ways only few musicians have been able to experience. It would be impossible not to improve as a musician playing with Neil Peart. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHHEAD666 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Working man -with its it compelling guitar solo- put them on the map... Neils incredible skill provides a foundation that allows them to explore and create in ways only few musicians have been able to experience. It would be impossible not to improve as a musician playing with Neil Peart. Welcome Sky! Wow! You nailed it! Too bad Neil embarrassed the Buddy Rich Band. Neil is the greatest technical drummer on the planet or as Dave Weckl defined him to me a few nights ago, the greatest "systematic" drummer in the world. Too bad the old fella can't swing. Watch "Cottontail." He's more stiff than a Caress Of Steel Corpse. No wonder he changed his grip and drum geometrics. Freddie Gruber?A Legend.Don't really think he helped Neil. World Stage Embarrassment Breeds A Destruction To What Was Once An Original Kick Ass Progressive Style Of Drumming. The elusive Elwood Peart. "I see red" but I prefer "The Blues Brothers." "It's true........." Well I'm a liar. "Red Lenses" is one of the greatest Rush songs on the planet.That's the real Neil. JMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I think they would have enjoyed some success without Neil....even at the early stages they were clearly a cut above many others at the time. However, the injection of Neils virtuosity and lyrical capabilities added a certain je nes sais quoi that put further water between them and the competition 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I think they would have enjoyed some success without Neil....even at the early stages they were clearly a cut above many others at the time. However, the injection of Neils virtuosity and lyrical capabilities added a certain je nes sais quoi that put further water between them and the competition I agree. Im laughing thinking what if Alex was their lyricist.. maybe a lot like Frank Zappa their band would have been. "The Blah Blah song" hahahahaaa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadu Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Of course they did. Fortunately it was not put to the test for too long. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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