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#301 Anthemic

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 05:53 PM

people in this thread have said that they shouldn't play any rush music without neil other than stuff from the first album, that's f***ing idiotic.

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#302 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

View PostAnthemic, on 31 October 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

View PostFridge, on 31 October 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

View PostAnthemic, on 31 October 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

neil is the most replaceable for touring which is what most people here are saying, not that he can be replaced in the creative process of doing new rush music.

Duh.

Thank God, someone who "gets" it.......

Honestly, some people are just too quick with the "Troll" badge.

However, I still think Ged or Al could work with another drummer in the studio, but would concede that project would be very unlikely to be called "Rush"

I believe that the three of them recording in the studio and going out on tour with another drummer is perfectly acceptable

of course, there is the issue with Alex's hands.......a replacement guitarist would be a no-no.

of course they wouldn't f***ing call it rush, but it's just nuts that anyone says geddy and alex shouldn't play rush music live with a different drummer.

I don't think they should not. I just feel 99.99% they won't.

Yes they can replace Neil to play live.

But Fridge went so far to say Neil is replacable in the creative process......he is dead on wrong. Without Neil in the mix througout the 41 year history of this band......there probably would not have been that history.

Rush truly became Rush when Neil came and tried out for the band. The new guy was just as integral to the creative process of this band. His drum parts are legendary. To dismiss it is plain ignorant.

My band (which is also a power trio) have been playing together now for the better part of 20 years. At one time we replaced our bass player, then another time I left, then another time my drummer was replaced. We all came together again 3 years ago and agreed.

If it's not the three of us....it is not the same. Myself (Guitar) and my bass player are the engine you talk of. We write the riff's, and the melodies, but when we get into a room and start playing with our drummer he feels where we want to go perfectly almost every time. Do we talk and discuss rhythms, parts, breaks etc? Of course. But the chemistry. The intangible thing you can't really explain to a Lehman is there. When we played with a different drummer our music went in a different direction. When we replaced our bass player.....forget it...my writing partner was gone. When I left.....forget that too. Yes I hear you in the sound is Geddy and Alex....I get that. But Neil's drums are so huge though. They are a unique and totally one of kind approach. People can duplicate it. But they can't CREATE IT!!!! Neil's drum parts are from his mind, feel and approach and define Rush's sound as much as Alex's and Geddy's sounds do. FACT.

It goes deeper than writing credits. It's about energy, brotherhood, chemistry and something far beyond music theory and playing chops.

Rush knows this too.

They are not going to play Rush music on any tour without Neil Peart. They will never record under the Rush brand without Neil Peart.

Yeah I am sure of that Fridge. Your opinion is valid. Your thinking of the why....is so off base.

Neil is not replaceable in the creative process of Rush. Neither were Geddy and Alex. It's why they are and truly became Rush.

A unique one of a kind band. Very few can say they stuck together 41 years, same lineup, same everything.

They are not going to change a thing.

You have your opinion. I respect that. I have mine. And being a fan of the band going on 36 years I am confident in knowing they are done if it is not all 3 of them playing as a group named Rush.

#303 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 11:39 AM

View PostAnthemic, on 01 November 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

people in this thread have said that they shouldn't play any rush music without neil other than stuff from the first album, that's f***ing idiotic.

Again I don't think they should not do anything they don't want to.

I just think....they won't.

Simple as that. If they do....they do. Fridge took it somewhere else though. Post above explains that.

Anyway. I am not here to argue. I like to discuss.

#304 Principled Man

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 01:03 PM

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they do....they do.

This is the truth.  They will do whatever they decide to do.  That's it.  

What we want them to do, what we think they "should" do, is completely irrelevant.

#305 Fridge

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 01:04 PM

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

But Fridge went so far to say Neil is replacable in the creative process......he is dead on wrong. Without Neil in the mix througout the 41 year history of this band......there probably would not have been that history.

However I did say that such a project would be very unlikely to be called Rush

As for the rest of your post, it's interesting but anecdotal at best....there have been many other famous groups that have survivied considerable line up changes.

People, situations and circumstances are all different.

Edited by Fridge, 02 November 2015 - 01:06 PM.


#306 Fridge

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 01:07 PM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 02 November 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they do....they do.

This is the truth.  They will do whatever they decide to do.  That's it.  

What we want them to do, what we think they "should" do, is completely irrelevant.

Well I think that's all pretty obvious and didn't need stating, but hey ho.....

#307 Fridge

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 01:15 PM

View PostBard, on 01 November 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 31 October 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

View PostBard, on 30 October 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 28 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostLook to Sirius, on 28 October 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 28 October 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Another way of looking at it is we should be glad that it is Neil who wants to retire, as he is the easiest one to replace.

I'm not trying to say he hasn't been a big part of what has gone on, but he isn't part of the songwriting "engine"

Take Geddy or Alex out of the equation however, and it is indeed finito......
How do you mean? I thougt it was obvious that Geddy and Neil where the engine of Rush. Alex was out of the equation on a couple of Rush songs, at the least. He just found a way to worm his way into them :lol:

For the vast majority of their career, Alex has been the main sound....he was marginalised a bit during their mid 80s records, but came back into his own...Geddys vocals and competence with several instruments is also a necessity.

Lets not forget also that they wrote a lot of stuff without keys for years. so many of the guitar riffs must be Geddys.

Oh lord.

It's all three of them. Without Neil it is not Rush, without Geddy it is not Rush, without Alex it is not Rush. If one is not on board it's over. That will be a fact.

They will never perform or record as Rush unless all three are part of it.

And that is the way it should be. After 41 years nothing is going to change.

Nothing.

And you are confident you can speak for all three of them are you?

I would say that it was their decision, no one else's


Yeah...there going to replace Neil and tour as Rush.

Whatever you say man.

But if you read my posts I never said that that was what they would do, I only ventured an opinion that if someone had to be replaced, then Neil was the only possibility.

With all due respect and I do not mean to single you out. I have seen so many bad posts and trolling about Neil it's getting stupid.

I think your over thinking it. They truly are never going to replace Neil Peart so they can go tour again. If you told me this 20 years ago.....ok. They had plenty of mileage left.

They are at the end of the rainbow. They are not going to tarnish 41 years of Rush history for the sake of another tour.

Overthinking it lol...

If you knew my posting better, you would realise that's the last thing I would do regarding a rock band.

And respect or not, I haven't trolled Neil at all, merely offered a hypothetical opinion on a hypothetical situation.

And I still don't think you can speak for them.....saying that, I would agree that a tour as Rush would be highly unlikely, but you never know.

I can speak for them. :)

Not gonna happen. Ever.

And it's interesting how little value you rank Neil's contributions to the band...that Alex is the main sound, that Geddy's composition is the backbone...and that Neil's lyricism and percussion skills are the MOST replaceable.

Don't smoke crack, son. It's bad.

I suggest you retake some lessons in basic English comprehension........I did indeed say that Alex is the main sound (which is true, they are a power trio are they not?)...I never said Geddys composition is the backbone,I said Ged and Al are the main songwriring "engine" (which is true)..I also said that in pre keyboard days, Geddy must have written some of the stuff on guitars...nothing controversial there.

I also never said they were likely to carry on without Neil, just that if they did, he would be the only member which could be replaced.....it's an opinion, not trolling, and you shouldn't be so defensive.

It's trolling, and I'm hardly defensive. I'm scoffing. It'd be fine if you were just brazen, but you actually seem to believe what you're saying, which indicates a level of intellect that's beneath most of the members here. I should probably stop responding to you because you're apparently incapable of seeing the big picture zeitgeist to which most folks adhere to when it comes to Rush. I'd normally salute you for your individualism, but I just don't think you're getting it. Read some books, laddie.

Thank you for the condescension and patronising nature of your reply...note that I never "scoffed" at your opinion.

And no, I wasn't trolling, I was offering a point of view for discussion...believe me if I was trolling, you would know about it.

"Big picture zeitgeist"?...seriously?

We're talking about a rock n roll band here ffs and I certainly have no intention of "adhering" to anything just because you state that's what some other people do.

And I do "get it" I just don't "buy" it, ok?

#308 Principled Man

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 01:27 PM

View PostFridge, on 02 November 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

View PostPrincipled Man, on 02 November 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they do....they do.

This is the truth.  They will do whatever they decide to do.  That's it.  

What we want them to do, what we think they "should" do, is completely irrelevant.

Well I think that's all pretty obvious and didn't need stating, but hey ho.....

This entire discussion was created mainly because some Rush fans claim to know what the band "should" be doing now and in the future.  It is necessary to remind them that their opinions and desires are irrelevant.

#309 Fridge

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:25 PM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 02 November 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 02 November 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

View PostPrincipled Man, on 02 November 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they do....they do.

This is the truth.  They will do whatever they decide to do.  That's it.  

What we want them to do, what we think they "should" do, is completely irrelevant.

Well I think that's all pretty obvious and didn't need stating, but hey ho.....

This entire discussion was created mainly because some Rush fans claim to know what the band "should" be doing now and in the future.  It is necessary to remind them that their opinions and desires are irrelevant.

No it isn't...much more fun to read the spleen being vented :-)

#310 Anthemic

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM

i really hope that geddy and alex decide to tour and play rush music with a different drummer, both because i'd love to hear that music played lived again and because it would piss off all the purists.

#311 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 04:13 PM

Lol!!!!

#312 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:02 PM

View PostFridge, on 02 November 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

But Fridge went so far to say Neil is replacable in the creative process......he is dead on wrong. Without Neil in the mix througout the 41 year history of this band......there probably would not have been that history.

However I did say that such a project would be very unlikely to be called Rush

As for the rest of your post, it's interesting but anecdotal at best....there have been many other famous groups that have survivied considerable line up changes.

People, situations and circumstances are all different.

I am very aware of that. But a band with the magnitude and longevity of Rush is a rare bird.

And while I know bands with the same type of following and impact have had line up changes:

Pink Floyd
Yes
Van Halen

Just to name a few survived and thrived I think Rush is exactly that. A totally unique animal.

Floyd to me was never quite the same without Roger Waters. While I enjoyed the output (AMLOR and The Division Bell) the band was not the same without Waters.

Yes - became a new band when Trevor Rabin entered and Howe exited. Totally different in every way.

Rush never had that happen. They persevered throughout their history.

Anyway....again your opinion is valid. They can play without him....of course they can. And to be honest.....if they did I would absolutely go and see them. Of course I would!!!

But it won't be the same. It may sound almost the same. But it would be strange. Again....they are old chaps now. I don't think Geddy and Alex have any desire to do this unless all 3 are on board. They just never have struck me as those kind of guys.

They are one unit.

Anyway.

#313 Principled Man

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:03 PM

View PostAnthemic, on 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

i really hope that geddy and alex decide to tour and play rush music with a different drummer, both because i'd love to hear that music played lived again and because it would piss off all the purists.

I saw Black Sabbath during their first tour with Ronnie Dio.  

People near the stage were throwing stuff at him.  They were probably Purists......

#314 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:03 PM

View PostAnthemic, on 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

i really hope that geddy and alex decide to tour and play rush music with a different drummer, both because i'd love to hear that music played lived again and because it would piss off all the purists.

They would all buy tickets and support it 100% LOL. No doubt in my mind. It would not piss me off at all.

They can do whatever they want.

#315 Todem

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 05:03 PM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 02 November 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

View PostAnthemic, on 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

i really hope that geddy and alex decide to tour and play rush music with a different drummer, both because i'd love to hear that music played lived again and because it would piss off all the purists.

I saw Black Sabbath during their first tour with Ronnie Dio.  

People near the stage were throwing stuff at him.  They were probably Purists......

Idiots. Total idiots.

#316 Bard

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 06:44 PM

View PostFridge, on 02 November 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostBard, on 01 November 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 31 October 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

View PostBard, on 30 October 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 29 October 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

View PostTodem, on 29 October 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 28 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

View PostLook to Sirius, on 28 October 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 28 October 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Another way of looking at it is we should be glad that it is Neil who wants to retire, as he is the easiest one to replace.

I'm not trying to say he hasn't been a big part of what has gone on, but he isn't part of the songwriting "engine"

Take Geddy or Alex out of the equation however, and it is indeed finito......
How do you mean? I thougt it was obvious that Geddy and Neil where the engine of Rush. Alex was out of the equation on a couple of Rush songs, at the least. He just found a way to worm his way into them :lol:

For the vast majority of their career, Alex has been the main sound....he was marginalised a bit during their mid 80s records, but came back into his own...Geddys vocals and competence with several instruments is also a necessity.

Lets not forget also that they wrote a lot of stuff without keys for years. so many of the guitar riffs must be Geddys.

Oh lord.

It's all three of them. Without Neil it is not Rush, without Geddy it is not Rush, without Alex it is not Rush. If one is not on board it's over. That will be a fact.

They will never perform or record as Rush unless all three are part of it.

And that is the way it should be. After 41 years nothing is going to change.

Nothing.

And you are confident you can speak for all three of them are you?

I would say that it was their decision, no one else's


Yeah...there going to replace Neil and tour as Rush.

Whatever you say man.

But if you read my posts I never said that that was what they would do, I only ventured an opinion that if someone had to be replaced, then Neil was the only possibility.

With all due respect and I do not mean to single you out. I have seen so many bad posts and trolling about Neil it's getting stupid.

I think your over thinking it. They truly are never going to replace Neil Peart so they can go tour again. If you told me this 20 years ago.....ok. They had plenty of mileage left.

They are at the end of the rainbow. They are not going to tarnish 41 years of Rush history for the sake of another tour.

Overthinking it lol...

If you knew my posting better, you would realise that's the last thing I would do regarding a rock band.

And respect or not, I haven't trolled Neil at all, merely offered a hypothetical opinion on a hypothetical situation.

And I still don't think you can speak for them.....saying that, I would agree that a tour as Rush would be highly unlikely, but you never know.

I can speak for them. :)

Not gonna happen. Ever.

And it's interesting how little value you rank Neil's contributions to the band...that Alex is the main sound, that Geddy's composition is the backbone...and that Neil's lyricism and percussion skills are the MOST replaceable.

Don't smoke crack, son. It's bad.

I suggest you retake some lessons in basic English comprehension........I did indeed say that Alex is the main sound (which is true, they are a power trio are they not?)...I never said Geddys composition is the backbone,I said Ged and Al are the main songwriring "engine" (which is true)..I also said that in pre keyboard days, Geddy must have written some of the stuff on guitars...nothing controversial there.

I also never said they were likely to carry on without Neil, just that if they did, he would be the only member which could be replaced.....it's an opinion, not trolling, and you shouldn't be so defensive.

It's trolling, and I'm hardly defensive. I'm scoffing. It'd be fine if you were just brazen, but you actually seem to believe what you're saying, which indicates a level of intellect that's beneath most of the members here. I should probably stop responding to you because you're apparently incapable of seeing the big picture zeitgeist to which most folks adhere to when it comes to Rush. I'd normally salute you for your individualism, but I just don't think you're getting it. Read some books, laddie.

Thank you for the condescension and patronising nature of your reply...note that I never "scoffed" at your opinion.

And no, I wasn't trolling, I was offering a point of view for discussion...believe me if I was trolling, you would know about it.

"Big picture zeitgeist"?...seriously?

We're talking about a rock n roll band here ffs and I certainly have no intention of "adhering" to anything just because you state that's what some other people do.

And I do "get it" I just don't "buy" it, ok?

LOL, sure, you get it. You don't buy that Neil is irreplaceable.

It's okay to have an opinion. It's equally okay to have an opinion that's incorrect. It's your prerogative. However, that has a side effect of indicating you may not be the sharpest tool in the box.

#317 Bard

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 06:49 PM

Purists. An interesting notion, comparing Rush to other bands with lineup changes.

Is it really not obvious that if there's one band who clearly will retain their pure original member ratio, it's Rush?

Rush is not like other bands.

Rush cannot be compared to other bands.

Other bands have successfully transitioned with lineup changes. See Van Halen, AC.DC, Iron Maiden.

Other bands have unsuccessfully transitioned with lineup changes. See Queen, Yes, Van Halen ;), Lynyrd Skynrd

I am not sure why the core Rush fan base would even question the potentiality of a lineup change.

The good news is, Ged, Al, and Neil all know it perfectly well and don't care what the fanbase thinks.

I love that Rush is truer to themselves than their fanbase. :)

#318 grep

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 07:58 PM

View PostTodem, on 02 November 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

View PostAnthemic, on 02 November 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

i really hope that geddy and alex decide to tour and play rush music with a different drummer, both because i'd love to hear that music played lived again and because it would piss off all the purists.

They would all buy tickets and support it 100% LOL. No doubt in my mind. It would not piss me off at all.

They can do whatever they want.

Yes.

But don't forget. It won't be Rush. It will be Geddy and Alex playing their body of work with someone else.

I keep saying it guys - and I'm as big a fan as any of you - Rush is over. No Pratt, no Rush.

Just like 98.

#319 Jomboni

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Posted 02 November 2015 - 10:53 PM

^This is all it comes down to.  If they play without Neil they won't call it Rush.  And I really don't think Geddy & Alex will play together without Neil in any sort of official way.

#320 Principled Man

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 02:03 AM

View PostBard, on 02 November 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

Other bands have successfully transitioned with lineup changes. See Van Halen, AC.DC, Iron Maiden.

They were successful, but there were always the factions of "purists" who said, "Yeah, they're good, but they're not the same without _______"

Roth, Bon Scott, Ozzy, Blackmore, ....... The purists will always yearn for those guys.




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