Lorraine Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I might use this thread to get to 2112 posts You've got a bit of a way to go. :hi: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemiBeers Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I might be mistaken by making a logical post in the middle of an apparent bar fight but here it goes... I had alot of classical training when I was young. I have a minor in music from college and took a fair amount of music theory classes. There you learn how to write songs in a very 'mathematical' sense where notes and time signatures only work where they are supposed to. At a certain point I decided to throw that training away for the most part and simply play by ear. Much of Rush's material is mostly figuring out the 'timing' of the song. If you try to interpret time signatures, it would take you all day. The beginning of YYZ is a good example...forget the time signature, just play the morse code timing. So for most experienced musicians, it's more playing by instinct and feel rather than sitting down and disecting the time signature. Edited August 30, 2015 by 2112FirstStreet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Unusual time signatures can make a dull song more interesting. If all you want to do is head bang, then feel free to stick to 4/4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod in Toronto Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 When it comes to odd tome signatures, not many songs can top this one: https://youtu.be/FwkcRTNMsWsPure wankery!!!!! And thank you for bringing us back on topic. I saw them mess this song up in Madrid...Mangini made a mistake halfway towards the end. Embarassing...How the hell could you notice? "He played 11-4-7-3-9 instead of 12-3-8-3-8". DT fans know this song by heart, and they missed up pretty bad...this coming from a non musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here are some of my notes from an old thread on time signatures: What's a time signature? It's how musical passages are grouped/arranged. Go listen to the intro to Kid Gloves. If you count each note that Alex is playing, you're counting quarter notes. You'll notice that the notes are arranged into groups of 5 (1-2-3-4-5, repeat). That means the intro is in 5/4: 5 groups of quarter notes per measure. The verses are in 5/4 as well. When the music changes to fit the "call it blind frustration" sections, it switches to 4/4 (you count 1-2-3-4, repeat). The duration-value of the notes in both those sections is the same -- they're quarter notes, but the grouping changes from groups of 5 to groups of 4. (JARG's answer) --------------------------------------------------------------- What's a time signature? It refers to how many beats are in each measure. As a listener, you can only (or mainly) pick it up by listening to the melodic phrases that repeat. If you can read sheet music, you can 'hear' it without it being played. The Trees, for example- the solo section is in 5/4 time- five beats per measure, and each beat is a quarter note. The various and tricky time signatures are what is at the heart of the complexity of Rush music- the prog period and the epics in particular. They seemed to be unafraid of anything. It's difficult to write music in unconventional time signatures, and even trickier to play. (BlueJ's answer)================================================================- 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod in Toronto Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 When it comes to odd tome signatures, not many songs can top this one: https://youtu.be/FwkcRTNMsWs I've seen Dillinger live...they're good!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I might be mistaken by making a logical post in the middle of an apparent bar fight but here it goes... I had alot of classical training when I was young. I have a minor in music from college and took a fair amount of music theory classes. There you learn how to write songs in a very 'mathematical' sense where notes and time signatures only work where they are supposed to. At a certain point I decided to throw that training away for the most part and simply play by ear. Much of Rush's material is mostly figuring out the 'timing' of the song. If you try to interpret time signatures, it would take you all day. The beginning of YYZ is a good example...forget the time signature, just play the morse code timing. So for most experienced musicians, it's more playing by instinct and feel rather than sitting down and disecting the time signature. I agree ! You toss everything else out the window and I believe the one thing that is obvious in all songs is sincerity . . For me, a band like YES had fantastic ideas coming from each member, and when these ideas and inspirations were put together, the songs were magnificent - I can't imagine Steve Howe calculating some mathematic equation prior to applying to music - his genius is in his sincerity and unique approach, which was an amalgam of everything that ever inspired him .. When he talked about writing The Clap, and his son, I can just imagine how the entire piece came together, with his baby there reacting and laughing at the parts he heard and loved .. . . Edited August 30, 2015 by Lucas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) When it comes to odd tome signatures, not many songs can top this one: https://youtu.be/FwkcRTNMsWs I've seen Dillinger live...they're good!!!! Did you see them with Chris Pennie on drums ? Edited August 30, 2015 by Lucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatchMaker97 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 obviously, a GMO diet ( sorry ) :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronos Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Tull's "North Sea Oil" is in 5/4. That's about all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 PROG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pIhcEMjklg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Songs of the top of my head that are in time signatures other than 4/4 Money - Pink FloydSolsbury Hill - Peter GabrielRoundabout, Close To The Edge - YesLa Villa Strangiato, YYZ, Tom Sawyer, Limelight - RushThem Bones - AIC'sBlack Dog, The Ocean, Four Sticks - Led ZepTarkus, Lucky Man - ELPTurn It On Again - GenesisSeven Days - Sting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I might be mistaken by making a logical post in the middle of an apparent bar fight but here it goes... I had alot of classical training when I was young. I have a minor in music from college and took a fair amount of music theory classes. There you learn how to write songs in a very 'mathematical' sense where notes and time signatures only work where they are supposed to. At a certain point I decided to throw that training away for the most part and simply play by ear. Much of Rush's material is mostly figuring out the 'timing' of the song. If you try to interpret time signatures, it would take you all day. The beginning of YYZ is a good example...forget the time signature, just play the morse code timing. So for most experienced musicians, it's more playing by instinct and feel rather than sitting down and disecting the time signature.Thank you. I think the main need for time signatures in a playing setting is for session musicians. They need to be able to come in and get what is trying to be accomplished immediately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Also, being in a time other than 4/4 doesn't make it prog. There are entire genres that are played in other times like waltz which is 3/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemiBeers Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Songs of the top of my head that are in time signatures other than 4/4 Money - Pink FloydSolsbury Hill - Peter GabrielRoundabout, Close To The Edge - YesLa Villa Strangiato, YYZ, Tom Sawyer, Limelight - RushThem Bones - AIC'sBlack Dog, The Ocean, Four Sticks - Led ZepTarkus, Lucky Man - ELPTurn It On Again - GenesisSeven Days - Sting Actually, I think Lucky Man is in 6/8...you get the 1 2 3, 1 2 3 waltz rhythm. Probably one of the few ELP songs that didn't have frequent time signature changes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemiBeers Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I might be mistaken by making a logical post in the middle of an apparent bar fight but here it goes... I had alot of classical training when I was young. I have a minor in music from college and took a fair amount of music theory classes. There you learn how to write songs in a very 'mathematical' sense where notes and time signatures only work where they are supposed to. At a certain point I decided to throw that training away for the most part and simply play by ear. Much of Rush's material is mostly figuring out the 'timing' of the song. If you try to interpret time signatures, it would take you all day. The beginning of YYZ is a good example...forget the time signature, just play the morse code timing. So for most experienced musicians, it's more playing by instinct and feel rather than sitting down and disecting the time signature.Thank you. I think the main need for time signatures in a playing setting is for session musicians. They need to be able to come in and get what is trying to be accomplished immediately. True, that's for picking up songs quickly likely using sheet music or tabs. But so much original Rock (or Prog) music is generated by a good jam, riff or vibe and you just go with it without thinking about time signatures. That bass riff on Pink Floyd's 'money' is probably something that happened in a jam without thinking. Edited August 30, 2015 by 2112FirstStreet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) This is true: KISS' song Flaming Youth has sections in 7/4 time, with parts that go from 3/4, and then to 4/4 Watchin' You has a section that goes from 4/4 to 9/8 Prog ?? Hardly http://www.kissforum.de/phpbb2/userpix/359_FlamingYouthScoreTab_1.jpg Edited August 30, 2015 by Lucas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarizeMe Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 When it comes to odd tome signatures, not many songs can top this one: https://youtu.be/FwkcRTNMsWs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTOvUOqbhVUI've seen Dillinger live...they're good!!!!This is the only Dillinger album I've listened to (I know Greg Puciato's not on this album) but I think it's really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I might be mistaken by making a logical post in the middle of an apparent bar fight but here it goes... I had alot of classical training when I was young. I have a minor in music from college and took a fair amount of music theory classes. There you learn how to write songs in a very 'mathematical' sense where notes and time signatures only work where they are supposed to. At a certain point I decided to throw that training away for the most part and simply play by ear. Much of Rush's material is mostly figuring out the 'timing' of the song. If you try to interpret time signatures, it would take you all day. The beginning of YYZ is a good example...forget the time signature, just play the morse code timing. So for most experienced musicians, it's more playing by instinct and feel rather than sitting down and disecting the time signature.:goodone: It is art, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod in Toronto Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 When it comes to odd tome signatures, not many songs can top this one: https://youtu.be/FwkcRTNMsWs I've seen Dillinger live...they're good!!!! Did you see them with Chris Pennie on drums ? Not sure, man...I saw them at the Soundwave Festival in '09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHHEAD666 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Father Time loves to sign his signature for the naive. As a drummer of 33 years and playing my ass off to everything I could give a fukk about that shit. I play from the heart, the mind and soul. Perhaps that's why I never made it, but I can fukking play. Edited August 30, 2015 by RUSHHEAD666 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here are some of my notes from an old thread on time signatures: What's a time signature? It's how musical passages are grouped/arranged. Go listen to the intro to Kid Gloves. If you count each note that Alex is playing, you're counting quarter notes. You'll notice that the notes are arranged into groups of 5 (1-2-3-4-5, repeat). That means the intro is in 5/4: 5 groups of quarter notes per measure. The verses are in 5/4 as well. When the music changes to fit the "call it blind frustration" sections, it switches to 4/4 (you count 1-2-3-4, repeat). The duration-value of the notes in both those sections is the same -- they're quarter notes, but the grouping changes from groups of 5 to groups of 4. (JARG's answer) --------------------------------------------------------------- What's a time signature? It refers to how many beats are in each measure. As a listener, you can only (or mainly) pick it up by listening to the melodic phrases that repeat. If you can read sheet music, you can 'hear' it without it being played. The Trees, for example- the solo section is in 5/4 time- five beats per measure, and each beat is a quarter note. The various and tricky time signatures are what is at the heart of the complexity of Rush music- the prog period and the epics in particular. They seemed to be unafraid of anything. It's difficult to write music in unconventional time signatures, and even trickier to play. (BlueJ's answer)================================================================- Haha...I remember that day! That was when JARG 'taught' me that Kid Gloves was in 5/4, and I 'taught' him the same thing about The Trees. Both of us had heard it in one song, but neither one of us had picked up on it in the other. :P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraroc Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 You know, this is exactly what I was talking about...time signatures, unless you're a musician yourself, are not important. JUST LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You know, this is exactly what I was talking about...time signatures, unless you're a musician yourself, are not important. JUST LIKE WHAT YOU LIKE. Why would you really care what other people think anyway? Leave the music-making to the musicians. What an inane topic of conversation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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