Mr. JD Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I like the production of Counterparts very much. To me it just sounds good. Very clean and clear. From T4E on, the idea of good clean production changed with Rush (not as much with T4E). When the guys listen to the music during production, I wonder what they use as a "baseline" as to what sounds good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I like the production of Counterparts very much. To me it just sounds good. Very clean and clear. From T4E on, the idea of good clean production changed with Rush (not as much with T4E). When the guys listen to the music during production, I wonder what they use as a "baseline" as to what sounds good. Counterparts sounds so good. T4E was still decent but after that it's like everything got congested. Mixed too loud and too much sonic overlap. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND I agree I agree I agree I agree 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND I will assume you are talking in the future tense because afaik Rush is still technically a band. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclonus X-1 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND Oh yeah, they were so "together" and "aware" in the old days, such a well-oiled machine, that they didn't even realize they were recording Hemispheres in a key that was too high for Geddy. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND +100000000000000000000000000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBsDWdrums Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Well...I agree that some of the "hey let's write alone and send emails" crap can affect things...nd while I also agree S&A overall sounds the cleanest....one thing sounded ...off..to me on that album....neils drums....they sound...ticky..and clicky...and that is an engineer thing...a Nick thing...not even a Neil thing at this point because I get a vibe once he records the tracks...he is done....BTW...its not a damn "DW" thing because I can cite many many artists + myself included) who play DW without results like...that. VT remixed is a vast improvement over VT...huge...CA...like VT has great material..but some squashing going on..&.....believe it or not DVD haters..but the live versions...if anything just brought this further to light...the powerful and dynamic string arrangements in particular.....this I noticed awhile after Nicks remarks of "I hope fans aren't watching graphs instead of listening"..or whatever he said... Peter Erskine once said in regards to giving a strong performance..."bottom line...you have to give a shit"...bingo. Not that Rush doesn't care.....but I sometimes wonder if everything just got ....too big..... Love em...all the same. Edited August 14, 2015 by JBsDWdrums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBsDWdrums Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I'll add...people seem to like the sound and maybe...feel of S&A the best it seems...an album born from...hanging...more like the old days... But...I don't know if anyone can artificially reproduce the circumstances of their earlier work....Permanent Waves just....rolls out in such a natural flow....hard to put your finger on what "it"...is...but yes later stuff has a more...labored feel to it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBsDWdrums Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND So...the obvious question...when in your view...was that?.... I remember people hating as far back as..1982....by 84 rumors of a breakup were out there and p/g was a tense experience from all accounts....so was T4E apparently from what I remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanMeanPride Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I love the remixed Vapor Trails, and I'd love to see more remixed releases. I don't think the band feels urgency to treat other albums like they did VT though, so I doubt if we'll ever see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND Oh yeah, they were so "together" and "aware" in the old days, such a well-oiled machine, that they didn't even realize they were recording Hemispheres in a key that was too high for Geddy. ??? It obviously wasn't too high for him in 1978-79 The best part of being a musician is pushing the limits - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) One thing that I think absolutely kills the songs and eventually, an album, begins with the bands members, and how they start writing and creating . One thing that was very obvious with early RUSH - and some of their contemporaries of the time - was the fact that PLAYING TOGETHER stirred such creativity and awareness as to what they were as a band ... This was touched on in another thread, but early on, RUSH was constantly touring or recording or writing - or some combination of all of them They grew so quickly, and developed their sound and it translated to the album because they were a band - and Terry Brown is such an underrated force with them, and he took a great thing and made it even better - he had vision along with the band ... So when we hear that these later albums are put together via emails between members - and that prior to recording, these songs were most likely not even jammed on together by the 3 guys in the same room - well, there you go - that is total bull****, and blame whoever you want, but it is the band's fault If the foundation is not there, the final product will reflect that .... RUSH stopped being vital and interesting when they ceased being a BAND So...the obvious question...when in your view...was that?.... I remember people hating as far back as..1982....by 84 rumors of a breakup were out there and p/g was a tense experience from all accounts....so was T4E apparently from what I remember... As a fan, I want to be moved in some way, and with RUSH, they never failed early on ... There was a spark with them that was unique and impossible to put your finger on, but their creativity always always drew me into what they were doing - I was a part of the ride, whether it was Jacob's Ladder, The Necromancer, Cygnus, etc etc Those songs, to me, were the final product of perfect chemistry and timing from guys I had never met, but felt as if I knew - because they took me along How did that happen ?? I suppose a big part is the fact that what they were doing meant so much to them - sincere effort and blood, sweat and tears getting these images into songs In other words, they never mailed it in back then - it was them, and I became a part of it with them So when a band cannot even get together and do what they do - write and play music - how the heck is the listener going to feel involved ? Edited August 14, 2015 by Lucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexMike Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The recording of CA would've been the perfect time to reunite with Terry Brown. I would so love to hear a remix with him at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus 2112 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I still would like to know when they go into the studio to work on a new album, who foots the bill? And who pays for the producer? At this point, their company foots the bill. Would you happen to know, or can you give a good estimate, of how much the entire production (including paying the producer) of creating a new album would cost?$21.12 per hour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRogers Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I had no idea aboot album via email. I guess it can be done but it can't be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sometimes what happens after a number of years is that you get bored with the same old thing - writing a riff, no matter how cool, and constructing a song arrangement around it. Musicians get interested in "creating new colors" and experimenting with sonic textures. Unfortunately, while it might be interesting for them to layer different chord voicings and complimentary riffs and all that stuff, it's not always that interesting to listen to. The brain gets overwhelmed, not to mention the fact that it fills up every inch of space. There's no more space between the notes. I don't know what happens in mixing. Maybe someone thinks, track 18 needs to be nudged up a bit because I can't hear that cool part over the bass, and then suddenly the drums need to come up to cut through the mix. Rush like a lot of bands in the old days would thicken the sound of the guitar by doubling parts, and they'd frequently do that with vocals as well. You can hear it even on the first record. But that was a simple matter of recording the same part and just panning left and right. It "widened" the sound without creating that thick mushiness that a lot of people complain about today. Also, as soon as you start adding more parts and instrumentation, the frequencies of those various parts and sounds start to interfere with each other. I remember reading something about how the keyboards, because they were in the same frequency range as the guitar, created too much density in the sound. For that reason, Lifeson's guitar parts would be lower in the mix (causing him no small amount of frustration, I imagine). Finally, as someone else has argued somewhere, it could be that they all have suffered some hearing damage from 40+ years of playing loud rock and roll . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefox4000 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Rush.......as much as i love them.........has become a group surrounded by yes men. oh yes this sounds great. YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! That will eventually go to your head no matter who you are. Mick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I guess I don't get why people aren't digging the production of Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels? Over the years the only albums I think lacked were Signals and Vapor Trails....and they sort of fixed VT, so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock And Key Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I still would like to know when they go into the studio to work on a new album, who foots the bill? And who pays for the producer? At this point, their company foots the bill. Would you happen to know, or can you give a good estimate, of how much the entire production (including paying the producer) of creating a new album would cost? It's all going to depend on where they record it and who they use as a producer/engineer. You've got rental costs for the studio, you've got to pay the producer, engineers... etc. Recording an album even as cheaply as you can get one done today is going to be ~ $5000 -$10,000 and that's if an artist only spends a few days in the studio and doesn't do more than just basic recording. I would imagine they spend quite a bit more than this because they would spend more than just a few days in the studio. They can afford to rent out a place for a month or more and work on the music while they are there. Also, if the band adds things like an orchestra or choir to their songs, you're looking at extra money to pay these people to record their parts. Studio rental costs seems to be the big financial burden when it comes to recording an album. Black Sabbath recorded their first album in six hours because they couldn't afford anything else. I've known some people who have played in local bands, so i've heard how much of a financial issue it can be to afford studio time just to record a few songs. Obviously, a band like Rush is much more financially stable and can afford to take more time to get their albums finished now and not have it cripple them. Still, I think it was something special years ago when bands like Rush and others used to get a new album out every year. They just went into the studio and got it done. There was no messing around, no filler, just a band getting to the point and releasing something great. The Moody Blues recorded Days of Future Passed in one week.Think I read that Priest recorded British steel in a Country House in a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernTheFish Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I guess I don't get why people aren't digging the production of Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels? Over the years the only albums I think lacked were Signals and Vapor Trails....and they sort of fixed VT, so.... True, but I think CA's sound quality is noticeably worse than recordings made decades ago (ie Moving Pictures). Shouldn't fans expect sound quality to get BETTER over time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaminbenb Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) I guess I don't get why people aren't digging the production of Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels? Over the years the only albums I think lacked were Signals and Vapor Trails....and they sort of fixed VT, so.... True, but I think CA's sound quality is noticeably worse than recordings made decades ago (ie Moving Pictures). Shouldn't fans expect sound quality to get BETTER over time? First of all analog is a LOT different sounding than digital...let's just get that on the table! No comparison to saturating TAPE to trying to keep from killing digital! You also have to realize how compressed things were made back then, and the way that sound was "realized" (on album..bass expanded via a special amplifier) NOW there's a broader spectrum, and digital makes things a little more "airy"...speakers are a lot better and you can hear slight mistakes. But putting the sound on the "device" is much different. The other thing is how are you listening to your music? Mp3's aren't full digital for one thing. Digital...if you're smart...should be run through an equalizer for your taste...do you like the old "vinyl" sound? push the bass a little...do you like vocals and cymbals to come out a little more...push some high end...etc... I really have no issue with the sound of anything that's come out comparatively,....it's different sounding, if there's something I don't like about the sound, I "play" with it. Edited August 14, 2015 by Jaminbenb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2112YYZ Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I had no idea aboot album via email. I guess it can be done but it can't be better. Bands have been doing that for years now. It's a just a faster way to share song ideas with each other when the members don't live close to one another. They don't necessarily write full songs this way but they send things they've been working on back and forth to each other. The final product obviously gets done in the studio. If Geddy and Alex live in the Toronto area and Neil lives in LA, it's the best way to send song ideas back and forth and have everyone share their input on what they like to do musically with it before it's time to go into the studio. This method probably helps to cut down on studio time so it's cheaper for them in the end. Recording song ideas on their phones is also something musicians do now too. That is actually a good idea, that way if they come up with something good while they're playing around, they won't forget it. I wonder how many cool riffs came about but never saw the light of day because Alex wasn't recording it and forgot what he did later on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Rush.......as much as i love them.........has become a group surrounded by yes men. oh yes this sounds great. YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! That will eventually go to your head no matter who you are. Mick I don't think they are surrounded by yes men. At least, I hope not. That's not very helpful to anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefox4000 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Rush.......as much as i love them.........has become a group surrounded by yes men. oh yes this sounds great. YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! That will eventually go to your head no matter who you are. Mick I don't think they are surrounded by yes men. At least, I hope not. That's not very helpful to anyone. i hope you're right.....but from VT......To turning around with CA.......i'm not so sure. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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