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An apology to all members of TRF concerning NEP.


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#41 WorkingAllTheTime

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 08:49 AM

View Postlaughedatbytime, on 05 April 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 05 April 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

View Postlaughedatbytime, on 04 April 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 04 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Yep, he's a middle of the road writer in the context of his books, but I enjoy most of what he has written.  I also put this particular book in the context of his time and place.   All the money in the world can't help you shake anger and depression.  Sure, he had the resources to take a different physical path through his cycle of response and the stages of grief, but the emotional and psychological triggers and mechanisms were the same as they would be for any person because, well, he's human.

And, wow, hey, he made some off-putting, poor taste comments about people.  That's down right...

typical.

In other words, he did exactly what every person on this planet has done in a period of anger, sadness, or weakness (if anyone reading this dares to suggest *they* have not said, written, or done something in anger, sadness, or weakness they knew was wrong and immature, I will flat out call them a liar... and a hypocrite... and a hypocritical liar).

So, yeah, he wrote some tacky things.  Pardon my french, but big f***ing deal.  We have *all* written some tacky things, nearly all of us (myself included... just did in this paragraph, in fact) in this forum.

Everyone repeat after me....   Neil is not our friend.  Neil owes us nothing.  Neil should not be held to extraordinary standards because he is rich or famous.  Neil should especially not be held to extraordinary standards because we are really, really, REALLY big fans of his music.  Neil is, though, human and capable of making mistakes and even regretting those mistakes.

His only real mistake in this book, though, was taking what should have been left a personal journal and publishing it.   That was indeed dumb.  I suspect he published it thinking it was his way of trying to connect with fans, knowing that he doesn't connect well through other means.  But the fact of the matter is this book was too raw, too personal, and too close to some very ugly, but equally real, aspects of the human psyche following tragedy and grief to be significantly helpful.  

How about everyone get off their high horse regarding Neil and, rather than judging him, ask themselves why they find it so necessary to judge him?
I agree that Neil owes us nothing.  I don't care in the slightest about meeting him, and would thank him for his work and quickly move on if I did, and would leave him alone if his body language suggested that was his preference.

It does disturb me that he's judgmental and negative about people he's never met , this is admittedly based on the descriptions contained above.  If those are not accurate or if he no longer holds those views, realizing that the book was written at a time of great distress, then I would change my opinion.   But if the observations still hold, it doesn't speak very well of him as a person; if that's judgmental, so be it, and if I don't live up to the standards of perfection, that doesn't obviate the observation in any sense.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that we have all, at some point, been judgmental about people we have never met.  Actually, wait, not, I am not out on a limb, I am firmly on the ground as that is reality.   What makes the majority of the people on the planet decent is that they know it is wrong and regret it.

Having read all of his books, this one is, in no doubt, different than the others.  He was very clearly not in a good place when he wrote it and pretty obviously not in a place to make good decisions (his decision to publish it being actual proof of those bad decisions).  I really have no reason to doubt that Neil would not look back at this book and cringe.

If someone were to ask me these questions about Neil Peart, my answer would be the same for each...

Do you think Neil can be intellectually arrogant?
Do you think Neil has some abnormal (in the clinical sense) responses to some of his fears?
Has Neil done or said some things that make you shake your head?

The answer, of course, would be "yes".

But those same questions could be asked of many people I know in my own life, even some friends and family.   If we are honest with ourselves, we all know and even like or love people who we could take those questions above and insert their names for "Neil". Yet we don't feel the need to constantly lambast them, do we?  (I mean, I hope we don't because that would make us really mean people and bad friends and family).

Yet, for some reason, people feel they can do this to celebrities.  And, for some reason, many Rush fans feel the need to do this to Neil.

Obviously, this annoys me.
Sure, everybody's judged people they don't know.  I have.   Do I regret it?   Of course.   Do I try and justify it in my mind, no.

Do most people do it as consistently and repeatedly as he did in this book?   Maybe, I hope not, but even if they do, for those that do, does it shed some light on their character.

I have no trouble with his comments if he was in a bad place and regrets the comments he made.   He's written enough (I haven't read any of it though, admittedly) that if he feels bad and wants to correct the record, he could easily have done so.   Has he done this?   I honestly don't know.

I guess this is part of celebrity. But for every possibly unjust criticism celebrities get, and for every double standard they're subjected to, there's another person willing to ignore or downplay their bad behavior because they're good at their craft.

I share a lot of personality traits with Neil. One that I hope I don't--and I hope that he doesn't have--is contempt for other people I don't really know based on their physical attributes.

Agreed.

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#42 laughedatbytime

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 08:54 AM

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 05 April 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 05 April 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 04 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Yep, he's a middle of the road writer in the context of his books, but I enjoy most of what he has written.  I also put this particular book in the context of his time and place.   All the money in the world can't help you shake anger and depression.  Sure, he had the resources to take a different physical path through his cycle of response and the stages of grief, but the emotional and psychological triggers and mechanisms were the same as they would be for any person because, well, he's human.

And, wow, hey, he made some off-putting, poor taste comments about people.  That's down right...

typical.

In other words, he did exactly what every person on this planet has done in a period of anger, sadness, or weakness (if anyone reading this dares to suggest *they* have not said, written, or done something in anger, sadness, or weakness they knew was wrong and immature, I will flat out call them a liar... and a hypocrite... and a hypocritical liar).

So, yeah, he wrote some tacky things.  Pardon my french, but big f***ing deal.  We have *all* written some tacky things, nearly all of us (myself included... just did in this paragraph, in fact) in this forum.

Everyone repeat after me....   Neil is not our friend. Neil owes us nothing.  Neil should not be held to extraordinary standards because he is rich or famous.  Neil should especially not be held to extraordinary standards because we are really, really, REALLY big fans of his music.  Neil is, though, human and capable of making mistakes and even regretting those mistakes.

His only real mistake in this book, though, was taking what should have been left a personal journal and publishing it.   That was indeed dumb.  I suspect he published it thinking it was his way of trying to connect with fans, knowing that he doesn't connect well through other means.  But the fact of the matter is this book was too raw, too personal, and too close to some very ugly, but equally real, aspects of the human psyche following tragedy and grief to be significantly helpful.  

How about everyone get off their high horse regarding Neil and, rather than judging him, ask themselves why they find it so necessary to judge him?
Agree.
Agree.
I'm not on a "high horse."  The whole point of this thread was to apologize and humble myself to the other posters on here, who I claimed were being on their "high horse" and judging Neil, when, they were sort of right all along.

First, my apologies.  My rant was not intended to be at you (yet I didn't make that clear).  It is actually intended to be directed at the general anti-Neil tone that permeates this and many other Rush forums.

In my response to LABT, I make it pretty clear that, yes, I do think Neil has some traits and behaviors that are flawed and odd.  But I also try to make it pretty clear those things make him just like all of us:  a person.   Aside from money, fame, and musical talent, Neil is fundamentally the same as any of us, a flawed human being.  

For some reason, though, there is a group of Rush fans who I think have a very unhealthy set of expectations from all three members of the group.  Alex and Geddy, in my opinion, do a better job of managing those unhealthy expectations, in both the interpersonal and emotional sense.  Neil, frankly, doesn't do as well managing the expectations.  While I get that he is fundamentally an introvert and he is deeply uncomfortable with certain aspects of fame, I also think he can be his own worst enemy by not directly facing the challenge and his fears (e.g., formal meet and greets, etc.).  Alas, I don't think he should be doing those things for his fans, rather I think he should be doing them for himself.

So, in the big picture, Alex and Geddy "play the game" and Neil does not.  But, really, it's just that: a game.  I can give some examples as to why it is a game and little more than folly.  Neil gets accused of being a hypocrit for having expensive toys and hobbies, yet writing songs like CTTH or The Larger Bowl.  Alex and Geddy also have very expensive toys and hobbies and play the same songs, but get a pass on their wealth.  Every step of Neil's behavior gets picked apart and criticized, yet many, MANY Rush fans casually ignored Alex and his sons' own part in the Florida New Year's Eve incident (yes, the cops and hotel staff were overzealous, but it is pretty evident Alex and his son - his son in particular - didn't help their own cause).   And here's the best one:   Neil has made it clear that he wants to spend more time with his family and that is driving his lack of interest in touring, but fans then call him a hypocrit for spending time away from his family in the past and get angry at the idea that Neil's familial aspirations are likely to end the band's run.   In other words, the man is admitting regret for some things, but fans are using his admitting that regret to somehow prove a point?  The man can't win for trying.

So, I will throw out a tacky thought on this Easter Sunday.... if Neil has developed a Messiah Complex over the years, I would not be surprised.  He has been repeatedly crucified by his "fans" for a very long time.
I don't disagree with any of this...in fact, I probably would have quit a long time before Neil if faced with a lot of what he's had to deal with; my personality traits in some of these areas of introversion may even be stronger than his.   The ONLY thing I have a criticism of is his uncharitable nature w/r/t people he doesn't know.   Quite frankly, the whole "meet and greet" thing is kind of bizarre; just be glad you've been given what their craft has given you...in the end, you bought the album, tickets, etc. because you felt that it was worth more to you than it cost, thereby adding to your life experience/satisfaction.      And (with the exception of the lyrics to Half the World), they've put forth their best effort....and really, that's all it's fair to ask for.

#43 GeminiRising79

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 08:58 AM

View Post2112FirstStreet, on 04 April 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:


At the end of the day, they're my favorite Rock band and I highly admire their skill and career. My money buys their albums, merch and concerts but no guarantee of any personal connection.

I think its normal human behavior to want to make a personal, irl connection with an individual/individuals u highly admire and/or have great passion for.  Meeting all 3 together at the watergate hotel (on the mp tour) completed the circle for me, experientially. What a tremendous thrill that was! And Neil was very friendly even in light of "limelight"!


#44 matthewpartrick

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

#45 GeminiRising79

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM

View Postmatthewpartrick, on 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

Introversion is one thing. Allowing yourself to be antisocial is another.

#46 laughedatbytime

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 01:53 PM

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

View Postmatthewpartrick, on 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

Introversion is one thing. Allowing yourself to be antisocial is another.
Then you don't really understand introversion.

#47 GeminiRising79

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 02:22 PM

View Postlaughedatbytime, on 05 April 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

View Postmatthewpartrick, on 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

Introversion is one thing. Allowing yourself to be antisocial is another.
Then you don't really understand introversion.

I spent a good part of my life as an antisocial introvert.  Try again.

#48 laughedatbytime

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 02:24 PM

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postlaughedatbytime, on 05 April 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

View Postmatthewpartrick, on 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

Introversion is one thing. Allowing yourself to be antisocial is another.
Then you don't really understand introversion.

I spent a good part of my life as an antisocial introvert.  Try again.
You don't really understand introversion.

Did you get it this time?

Edited by laughedatbytime, 05 April 2015 - 02:24 PM.


#49 EagleMoon

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 03:45 PM

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postlaughedatbytime, on 05 April 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

View Postmatthewpartrick, on 05 April 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 04 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

So, I finally listed to the audio version of Ghost Rider: Travels On The Healing Road by Neal E. Peart, which is a book that I had anticipated reading for a long time.  I thought I would be able to relate, perhaps, suffering the recent loss of a loved one myself.  What a snoozefest!

The first thing that I knew I had to do, one I finally got through all of the redundancy in that book, was to apologize to everyone on this forum.  Every time NEP posts and update, it is posted on here, and many people respond with criticisms of NEP.  I read a lot of those recent blogs and I found those criticisms to be unfounded.  BUT, when I listened to this condescending hatefest in it's entirety I knew that those criticisms were not unfounded, and that many of those criticisms were spot on.  So, I hope everyone will accept my apology.  I have heard that his earlier books are OK, but it will be a long time, if ever, before I find out.  

I am a very empathetic person, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes, in all of my daily interactions with people, but it became increasingly difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who was basically travelling first class, eating the finest of meals every night, drinking the finest of whiskies, and visiting all of the places that the rest of us can only dream of going.  Yeah, I am green with envy, big time, because he was living the life I'd love to live, and maybe that is the real reason that I got pissed off, but I found that a lot of the traits that other members on here accused NEP of having are true.  He IS antisocial, except for HIS family, HIS close friends, and anyone else that he is paying to serve him.  I don't think I heard a single line in the story where he took the time to help someone.  Yes, he gave some $ to some street people, but I'm talking about helping someone with mechanical issues or help someone with some errands, like people were always helping him.  It was/is amazing how everyone seems to be at his beck and call all the time.  I remember a guy that I used to work with often say, arrogantly, "I've got no use for him," and this describes NEP, at least in this book.

He got 3 or 4 speeding tickets in Canada, but he never referred to those cops as Nazis, like he did to the US custom's officer who frisked him.  He constantly complained about all the fat people here in the US, but never mentioned the first overweight person in Canada or Mexico.  Again, I'm empathetic to the fact that the guy suffered tremendous losses in his personal life, but hate equally - I know I do.

I respect Neil's genius, his intellect, his creativity, and the knowledge he has acquired, but he really isn't a good writer.  To those who have said that, and I scoffed at them, I apologize.  I used to think it was admirable that he shared, but now I know that he only did it for himself, not for "us," if I can  use that word.  And, he is redundant as hell, repeating the same old story over and over and over in those letters in the middle of the book.  I also found it interesting what tidbits he shared with whom, depending on who they were.  Also, I think there was only 1 letter to Geddy and 0 to Alex, although I believe he stopped in Santa Fe and met Alex.

Anyway, I hope I haven't been to harsh, but fair, and I'm glad y'all let me get this off my chest.

Being introverted myself, it's sometimes hard to explain why I have no interest interacting with others.  I still love music and playing for others.  Reference Donald Fagen and Walter Becker, who solved their similar issues by not touring for the longest time.

Introversion is one thing. Allowing yourself to be antisocial is another.
Then you don't really understand introversion.

I spent a good part of my life as an antisocial introvert.  Try again.

I think present tense should be used when referring to the antisocial tendencies.

#50 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 04:28 PM

The definitions for antisocial and introvert are not the same so there must be a difference?

#51 EagleMoon

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 05:43 PM

View PostThe Analog Grownup, on 05 April 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

The definitions for antisocial and introvert are not the same so there must be a difference?

Very basically, people who have antisocial disorder aren't interested in other people in any positive way. They don't care about other peoples feelings not do they want to have any dealings with them unless it's for personal gain. Introverts are are inwardly focused but mainly because they feel shy around other people and feel more comfortable by themselves. These people crave the company of other people but can feel isolated because of their shyness.

#52 Aikenrooster

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 05:56 PM

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 05 April 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

View PostAikenrooster, on 05 April 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

View PostWorkingAllTheTime, on 04 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Yep, he's a middle of the road writer in the context of his books, but I enjoy most of what he has written.  I also put this particular book in the context of his time and place.   All the money in the world can't help you shake anger and depression.  Sure, he had the resources to take a different physical path through his cycle of response and the stages of grief, but the emotional and psychological triggers and mechanisms were the same as they would be for any person because, well, he's human.

And, wow, hey, he made some off-putting, poor taste comments about people.  That's down right...

typical.

In other words, he did exactly what every person on this planet has done in a period of anger, sadness, or weakness (if anyone reading this dares to suggest *they* have not said, written, or done something in anger, sadness, or weakness they knew was wrong and immature, I will flat out call them a liar... and a hypocrite... and a hypocritical liar).

So, yeah, he wrote some tacky things.  Pardon my french, but big f***ing deal.  We have *all* written some tacky things, nearly all of us (myself included... just did in this paragraph, in fact) in this forum.

Everyone repeat after me....   Neil is not our friend. Neil owes us nothing.  Neil should not be held to extraordinary standards because he is rich or famous.  Neil should especially not be held to extraordinary standards because we are really, really, REALLY big fans of his music.  Neil is, though, human and capable of making mistakes and even regretting those mistakes.

His only real mistake in this book, though, was taking what should have been left a personal journal and publishing it.   That was indeed dumb.  I suspect he published it thinking it was his way of trying to connect with fans, knowing that he doesn't connect well through other means.  But the fact of the matter is this book was too raw, too personal, and too close to some very ugly, but equally real, aspects of the human psyche following tragedy and grief to be significantly helpful.  

How about everyone get off their high horse regarding Neil and, rather than judging him, ask themselves why they find it so necessary to judge him?
Agree.
Agree.
I'm not on a "high horse."  The whole point of this thread was to apologize and humble myself to the other posters on here, who I claimed were being on their "high horse" and judging Neil, when, they were sort of right all along.

First, my apologies.  My rant was not intended to be at you (yet I didn't make that clear).  It is actually intended to be directed at the general anti-Neil tone that permeates this and many other Rush forums.

In my response to LABT, I make it pretty clear that, yes, I do think Neil has some traits and behaviors that are flawed and odd.  But I also try to make it pretty clear those things make him just like all of us:  a person.   Aside from money, fame, and musical talent, Neil is fundamentally the same as any of us, a flawed human being.  

For some reason, though, there is a group of Rush fans who I think have a very unhealthy set of expectations from all three members of the group.  Alex and Geddy, in my opinion, do a better job of managing those unhealthy expectations, in both the interpersonal and emotional sense.  Neil, frankly, doesn't do as well managing the expectations.  While I get that he is fundamentally an introvert and he is deeply uncomfortable with certain aspects of fame, I also think he can be his own worst enemy by not directly facing the challenge and his fears (e.g., formal meet and greets, etc.).  Alas, I don't think he should be doing those things for his fans, rather I think he should be doing them for himself.

So, in the big picture, Alex and Geddy "play the game" and Neil does not.  But, really, it's just that: a game.  I can give some examples as to why it is a game and little more than folly.  Neil gets accused of being a hypocrit for having expensive toys and hobbies, yet writing songs like CTTH or The Larger Bowl.  Alex and Geddy also have very expensive toys and hobbies and play the same songs, but get a pass on their wealth.  Every step of Neil's behavior gets picked apart and criticized, yet many, MANY Rush fans casually ignored Alex and his sons' own part in the Florida New Year's Eve incident (yes, the cops and hotel staff were overzealous, but it is pretty evident Alex and his son - his son in particular - didn't help their own cause).   And here's the best one:   Neil has made it clear that he wants to spend more time with his family and that is driving his lack of interest in touring, but fans then call him a hypocrit for spending time away from his family in the past and get angry at the idea that Neil's familial aspirations are likely to end the band's run.   In other words, the man is admitting regret for some things, but fans are using his admitting that regret to somehow prove a point?  The man can't win for trying.

So, I will throw out a tacky thought on this Easter Sunday.... if Neil has developed a Messiah Complex over the years, I would not be surprised.  He has been repeatedly crucified by his "fans" for a very long time.
good post

#53 GabesCavesOfIce

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:05 PM

An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though he or she may enjoy interactions with close friends. Trust is usually an issue of significance: a virtue of utmost importance to introverts is choosing a worthy companion. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate, especially observed in developing children and adolescents.[6] They are more analytical before speaking.[7] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement, introversion having even been defined by some in terms of a preference for a quiet, more minimally stimulating external environment.[8]


Antisocial (or dissocial) personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others. There may be an impoverished moral sense or conscience and a history of crime, legal problems, and impulsive and aggressive behavior.

Thanks Wikipedia. Earlier in the thread, I think I mentioned anti social behavior. My apologies, I should have used the introvert wording, I don't think Neil would want to do anyone harm. He just finds us annoying. I get frustrated as well if I go long stretches without alone time.

#54 GeminiRising79

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:07 PM

I feel like I'm talking to my pets here lol

#55 laughedatbytime

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:09 PM

View PostGeminiRising79, on 05 April 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

I feel like I'm talking to my pets here lol
Why, are your pets smarter than you?

Judging by your posts, it's hard to believe that's NOT the case, but maybe they're single celled.

#56 GabesCavesOfIce

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:21 PM

I am sensing a "complete incompatibility of temperament"...

Jason Dufner may show us the way...



.

Edited by Gabrielgil513, 05 April 2015 - 07:44 PM.


#57 bathory

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:39 PM

I remember reading the one where he rides his bike through africa and he definitely makes sure we know he's the smartest dude in the room. he's also much better at riding his bike in 100 degree heat than the normies and mouthbreathers who accompany him on his journey.

#58 bathory

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:43 PM

he thinks we're all dumb heshers too. but in my case he's right :haz: :haz:

#59 bathory

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:00 PM

overall though I never had a problem with neil's personality, and to be honest I think it's a bit strange that the way he acts gets dissected so much. there are much weirder and offputting personalities in rock out there. of course, saying something like that makes me a fanboy.

#60 Xanadoood

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:14 PM

View Postbathory, on 05 April 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

overall though I never had a problem with neil's personality, and to be honest I think it's a bit strange that the way he acts gets dissected so much. there are much weirder and offputting personalities in rock out there. of course, saying something like that makes me a fanboy.

GG allin was much wierder than Neil .. Haha .. And slightly more offputting




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