Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The thread on people's favorite Led Zeppelin album got me thinking about the similarity between the original Ozzy era with Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin. Both released 8 albums. The first 5 albums from both were classics in the true sense of the word. Both released a 6th album that many fans think is their best album. I personally think that, in both cases, the 6th albums are about half outstanding and half not so exciting. The last 2 albums from both are widely recognized by fans to be their weakest efforts, although in both cases "real fans" (the ones who claim to prefer obscure work over commercially successful albums) often claim that one of the last two is actually their favorite. So here's how I score the two bands' discographies: Black Sabbath v. Led Zeppelin. I give the nod to Sabbath here, although both are great. Hard to overcome Black Sabbath and NIB. Paranoid v. II. Again I'm going with Sabbath. II is my favorite Led Zeppelin album, but Paranoid has War Pigs, Paranoid, Iron Man, Fairies Wear Boots as well as the hypnotic Planet Caravan. Master of Reality v. III. I prefer III to be honest. Master of Reality is too short. And I think the acoustic stuff from III is some of Zeppelin's best. Vol IV v. IV, Probably Zeppelin. As with Paranoid, the track list on Zep's fourth album is almost a greatest hits itself. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath v. Houses of the Holy. I'm returning to Sabbath. I love HOTH, but SBS has some of Sabbath's most adventurous stuff ever, like the title track (covered by the Cardigans amazingly, btw) A National Acrobat, Killing Yourself to Live and Spiral Architect. Sabotage v. Physical Graffiti. Probably Physical Graffiti. I think if this had been a single album it would be Zeppelin's best. But too many of it's tracks are throwaways. Sabotage does have one of my favorite Sabbath songs of all time, Hole in the Sky, but I have to give Zeppelin the nod here. Technical Ecstasy v. Presence. Presence. Neither of these albums excite me. But Nobody's Fault But Mine pulls it out for Zeppelin. Incidentally, Presence is the Zeppelin album that I think "real fans" often point to to show their bona fides. The best song on TE is, oddly enough, the Bill Ward vehicle It's Alright. Never Say Die! v. In Through the Out Door. NSD! is saved by the title track, Junior's Eyes and Johnny Blade. Like Presence, NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). I'd be interested in other fans of both bands' thoughts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toscanobarga Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Zep in every case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree on almost everything but I prefer MOR to III; both eighth albums aren't worth a discussion (found myself not a 'real Sabs fan' at 49...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Slacker!! :P 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree on almost everything but I prefer MOR to III; both eighth albums aren't worth a discussion (found myself not a 'real Sabs fan' at 49...) In Through The Out Door definitely has some great stuff...All of My love...In the Evening...Fool In the Rain... NSD is just garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Slacker!! :PI know. I am strange no doubt. I have always just enjoyed what I enjoyed and rarely stray. For the most part the general rule is/was that I don't like or own anything that was popular with the masses. I have not one Beatles, Stones, Who, Sabbath album in my collection. I am trying to think of some other very popular bands back in the day that I don't own anything from. Again I am a bit different and don't deny that fact.... Edited March 3, 2015 by Narpsberg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 I agree on almost everything but I prefer MOR to III; both eighth albums aren't worth a discussion (found myself not a 'real Sabs fan' at 49...) It's close on III v. MOR for me as well. I like NSD! much more than I like Technical Ecstasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Slacker!! :PI know. I am strange no doubt. I have always just enjoyed what I enjoyed and rarely stray. For the most part the general rule is/was that I don't like or own anything that was popular with the masses. I have not one Beatles, Stones, Who, Sabbath album in my collection. I am trying to think of some other very popular bands back in the day that I don't own anything from. Again I am a bit different and don't deny that fact.... Double slacker! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Slacker!! :PI know. I am strange no doubt. I have always just enjoyed what I enjoyed and rarely stray. For the most part the general rule is/was that I don't like or own anything that was popular with the masses. I have not one Beatles, Stones, Who, Sabbath album in my collection. I am trying to think of some other very popular bands back in the day that I don't own anything from. Again I am a bit different and don't deny that fact.... Double slacker! Triple. Don't have any Chicago either... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRogers Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sort of similar to what some say aboot Geddy Lee, I can't listen to Ozzy sing it just annoys me. I'm sure I'm alone in this corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. The difference is that both CoS & HYF actually have redeeming factors. CoS was crucial in the development of the band. HYF may have been in a different style than what people consider classic Rush, but it's actually a really good album for what it is. I think those are more a case of different strokes. NSD wasn't a major stylistic change or crucial in any way, it was just total crap....a throwaway. Even the 4 guys from Sabbath would tell you that. I feel like I've even heard them refer to it as a regret. Anyone claiming that it's the best (if they rank it the best of the classic 8, that's basically saying it's the best of the lot) is just trying to act like they're a bigger fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I love me some Black Sabbath from time to time. Brilliant band. But, I'd take Led Zeppelin in every match up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtron Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I thought this would be harder than it was, but thinking about the albums made me realize I enjoy Sabbath more. Looking at the albums matched up like that I'd take Sabbath's side on everything but III and PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutman Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know enough Sabbath music in depth to even participate . I did have Paranoid on 8 track back in the day however... Slacker!! :PI know. I am strange no doubt. I have always just enjoyed what I enjoyed and rarely stray. For the most part the general rule is/was that I don't like or own anything that was popular with the masses. I have not one Beatles, Stones, Who, Sabbath album in my collection. I am trying to think of some other very popular bands back in the day that I don't own anything from. Again I am a bit different and don't deny that fact.... Double slacker! Triple. Don't have any Chicago either... :madra: Speaking of Chicago, Pm me you address again. I am sending some thing to you next week. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. The difference is that both CoS & HYF actually have redeeming factors. CoS was crucial in the development of the band. HYF may have been in a different style than what people consider classic Rush, but it's actually a really good album for what it is. I think those are more a case of different strokes. NSD wasn't a major stylistic change or crucial in any way, it was just total crap....a throwaway. Even the 4 guys from Sabbath would tell you that. I feel like I've even heard them refer to it as a regret. Anyone claiming that it's the best (if they rank it the best of the classic 8, that's basically saying it's the best of the lot) is just trying to act like they're a bigger fan. NSD! has 3 good tracks but is in general a pretty weak album. I think both CoS and HYF are pretty weak albums too. On a Sabbath site I suspect you'd find someone who'd argue that Tech Ex and NSD! were similarly "growth" albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You know what really leans it towards Led Zeppelin for me - over the years Ozzy has revealed himself to be somewhat of a hack. He was a perfect singer on those albums, but I never realized how much he wasn't responsible for. I don't think you can say that for any member of Led Zeppelin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. The difference is that both CoS & HYF actually have redeeming factors. CoS was crucial in the development of the band. HYF may have been in a different style than what people consider classic Rush, but it's actually a really good album for what it is. I think those are more a case of different strokes. NSD wasn't a major stylistic change or crucial in any way, it was just total crap....a throwaway. Even the 4 guys from Sabbath would tell you that. I feel like I've even heard them refer to it as a regret. Anyone claiming that it's the best (if they rank it the best of the classic 8, that's basically saying it's the best of the lot) is just trying to act like they're a bigger fan. NSD! has 3 good tracks but is in general a pretty weak album. I think both CoS and HYF are pretty weak albums too. On a Sabbath site I suspect you'd find someone who'd argue that Tech Ex and NSD! were similarly "growth" albums. Growth to what? Ending the era?? Without CoS, there would have been no 2112 or Hemispheres. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. P. L. Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The only paragon I feel comfortable making is between the first albums, inasmuch as both bands on the get-go produced something bigger, wilder, heavier, weirder, rawer, unexplicably "different" than everything else.The difference being that the Sabs were truly rookies, while Page and Jones were old studio dogs. Still, both the albums are there as something so much greater than what the bands that recorded them were thinking they were making at the time. You'll get people talking about the technique, the sound, the fact that Page was more evil than Ozzy could ever dream to be, but really Paranoid blows II away for sheer sound power and darkness, although, of course, Moby Dick is the definitive drum solo and Rat Salad isn't. That said, in my 20s it was Zep all the time, but now is Sabs all around. Sorry, Percy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. The difference is that both CoS & HYF actually have redeeming factors. CoS was crucial in the development of the band. HYF may have been in a different style than what people consider classic Rush, but it's actually a really good album for what it is. I think those are more a case of different strokes. NSD wasn't a major stylistic change or crucial in any way, it was just total crap....a throwaway. Even the 4 guys from Sabbath would tell you that. I feel like I've even heard them refer to it as a regret. Anyone claiming that it's the best (if they rank it the best of the classic 8, that's basically saying it's the best of the lot) is just trying to act like they're a bigger fan. NSD! has 3 good tracks but is in general a pretty weak album. I think both CoS and HYF are pretty weak albums too. On a Sabbath site I suspect you'd find someone who'd argue that Tech Ex and NSD! were similarly "growth" albums. Growth to what? Ending the era?? Without CoS, there would have been no 2112 or Hemispheres. Period. People suggest that Tech Ex and NSD! show the band becoming more varied in their sound. I disagree with your conclusion that 2112 or Hemispheres are somehow dependent on CoS. It's a weak album that almost cost them their record deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Case Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 NSD! is the album Sabbath's "real fans" claim to like more than Paranoid. (OK, buddy. Whatever you say). Thankfully, I have never heard such nonsense uttered from any Sabbath fan!!! I can at least see the argument for any album up through Sabotage, but there's nothing but contempt for NSD as far as I've ever been aware. Check out Joe Siegler's black-sabbath.com site. You'll find tons of people claiming that NSD! is their favorite of the "great eight." Betting they're all ironic hipster types. The same people who are trying to revive cassette tapes. Nah. You can find similar fans here, to be honest. There's people that say Caress of Steel and/or Hold Your Fire blow away Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures. Every band has them. The difference is that both CoS & HYF actually have redeeming factors. CoS was crucial in the development of the band. HYF may have been in a different style than what people consider classic Rush, but it's actually a really good album for what it is. I think those are more a case of different strokes. NSD wasn't a major stylistic change or crucial in any way, it was just total crap....a throwaway. Even the 4 guys from Sabbath would tell you that. I feel like I've even heard them refer to it as a regret. Anyone claiming that it's the best (if they rank it the best of the classic 8, that's basically saying it's the best of the lot) is just trying to act like they're a bigger fan. NSD! has 3 good tracks but is in general a pretty weak album. I think both CoS and HYF are pretty weak albums too. On a Sabbath site I suspect you'd find someone who'd argue that Tech Ex and NSD! were similarly "growth" albums. Growth to what? Ending the era?? Without CoS, there would have been no 2112 or Hemispheres. Period. People suggest that Tech Ex and NSD! show the band becoming more varied in their sound. I disagree with your conclusion that 2112 or Hemispheres are somehow dependent on CoS. It's a weak album that almost cost them their record deal. And as a result they went balls to the wall and did 2112. CoS was also their first attempt at an album side length song and they learned from mistakes they made. Likewise, 2112 was a major stepping stone to Hemispheres. It's all a progression, with CoS starting them on the path...without a beginning, there is no end. At the very least, without CoS, 2112 and Hemispheres would have been different albums. Who knows if they would have been better or worse. A far as TE & NSD...all they show are a band doing way to many drugs that influence the ego. Ultimately, that led to a pretty major crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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