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70s synths or 80s synths?


fraroc
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  1. 1. 70s style synths or 80s style synths?

    • 70s spaced-out style
      10
    • 80s sawtooth style
      3


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Recently, I was listening to Jacob's Ladder and I've always wondered, how would the keyboard solo in that song sound like if it utilized 1980s style sawtooth synths like YYZ or Jump by Van Halen instead of those 1970s spaced-out synths? I personally think that the 80s style sawtooth synths would make the song sound better, in my opinion of course. But I'd like your input on this....
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Jacob's Ladder has both Oberheim and Moog synths as does Yyz which are all analog. The Oberheims were used through Signals. Grace Under Pressure introduced the use of PPG Wave digital synth which is a different technology and sonic sound. PPG was more brittle and cold sounding compared to the warmth of analog synthesis. Jump is the same model OB as Signals. It's an anolog synth. A saw tooth is an analog signal. Digital sawtooths are not true saw tooths because of how digital technology works.
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Jacob's Ladder has both Oberheim and Moog synths as does Yyz which are all analog. The Oberheims were used through Signals. Grace Under Pressure introduced the use of PPG Wave digital synth which is a different technology and sonic sound. PPG was more brittle and cold sounding compared to the warmth of analog synthesis. Jump is the same model OB as Signals. It's an anolog synth. A saw tooth is an analog signal. Digital sawtooths are not true saw tooths because of how digital technology works.

 

I kinda get it now. To be honest I really don't know that much technically about synths. I just have two digital pianos that can be used as MIDI controllers. So I hope you'll excuse the layman's terms I used in the OP.

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70's because their music wasn't synth-heavy. When they did use synths they tied it in perfectly with their hard rock style.
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Being the keyboard player in this Rush tribtute band, here is what I use.

 

I have 7 keyboards I use in live shows. I use 3 different keyboards for Jacobs Ladder (the middle part). A Korg DW8000 midi'd to Roland PK5 pedals to produce the low end bass sounds. A Roland R3 to produce a soft subtle string type pad for backround. And a Roland JP8000 for the lead "saw tooth" type sound for the solos.

 

The DW8000 is a product of the mid 80's, while the JP8000 was made in the mid 90's and the R3 was made in 2006. The Dw8000 is true analog synthesizer. The JP8000 is the first of it's kind to be an "analog modeling synthesizer" which generates sounds of a traditional analog synth using digital signal processing and software algorithms. Finally the R3 is a hybrid that covers analog and digital waveforms with oscillator algorithms.

Here is what all this stuff sounds like in a live situation. Enjoy!!

 

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Being the keyboard player in this Rush tribtute band, here is what I use.

 

I have 7 keyboards I use in live shows. I use 3 different keyboards for Jacobs Ladder (the middle part). A Korg DW8000 midi'd to Roland PK5 pedals to produce the low end bass sounds. A Roland R3 to produce a soft subtle string type pad for backround. And a Roland JP8000 for the lead "saw tooth" type sound for the solos.

 

The DW8000 is a product of the mid 80's, while the JP8000 was made in the mid 90's and the R3 was made in 2006. The Dw8000 is true analog synthesizer. The JP8000 is the first of it's kind to be an "analog modeling synthesizer" which generates sounds of a traditional analog synth using digital signal processing and software algorithms. Finally the R3 is a hybrid that covers analog and digital waveforms with oscillator algorithms.

Here is what all this stuff sounds like in a live situation. Enjoy!!

 

 

Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two. Then again, I've noticed that not all Rush tribute bands are trios like the real band. For example, your band Distant Signals has Geddy's job is given to three different guys. One for bass, one for vocals, one for keyboards. And that's okay, I'm not putting you guys down at all. Ged's job on stage is an impressive feat in of itself. Then again, the real Rush does use some measure of pre-recorded synth parts that are triggered by Ged. With your band, you can play all those parts that are normally pre-recorded like the synths on Where's My Thing?

 

But back to synths, I really should have done my research beforehand and learned all the inner workings of a synthesizer and how it's different from a regular keyboard. I've seen lots of videos on Youtube of people hooking up their old school synthesizers from the 80s to oscillographs so we can see the waves that are being produced every time a person presses one of the keys. An oscilloscope would be useless with a digital piano/MIDI controller because all a digital piano does is play back a sound that is already programmed into the machine, it doesn't create an audio signal like a synth does.

Edited by fraroc
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I always preferred the 70's synths to the 80's. The Oberheims (8-voice, OB-1 and OB-X) all had rich fat sounds. The Moogs also great sounds - the Taurus really filled out the low end and the Minimoog had some of the best lead sounds. These sounds (to me) are classic and timeless.

 

By the time they got into the PPG Wave and Emulators, the sounds were more diverse and they were experimenting a lot with what the synths could do, but I thought it all sounded to bright, brittle and artificial. I also find these sounds, though leading edge at the time, are very dated and stereotypical of the 80's pop.

 

Like most tribute bands focused on the classic sounds, I don't have access to the original synths (and probably couldn't fit them on most stages we play even if I did), so I have to find alternatives. I find the sampler-based "romplers" pretty useless in replicating Rush. I use a Roland D50 to replicate the Oberheim stuff - the earlier digital synths still had sort of a analog architecture with waves, filters and envelope generators. It's not as "fat", but id does decent brass pads and bass sounds. For the lead, I also use the JP8000 (or SH32), I find as a "Virtual Analog", it's a pretty decent Minimoog emulator. On the guitar side, I use an identical D550 with multi-timbral expansion for bass pedals and sequencing.

Edited by PW_Guitarist
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70's synths for me.

 

Though Subdivisions was recorded in the early 80's, listen to the difference between the synths in the studio and the ones they used for it live on ASOH and it's no contest in my book. A much warmer sound IMO.

Edited by Del_Duio
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Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two.

 

Maybe this guy can't afford the ones Geddy uses and had to get a bunch of cheapies to cover every soundbank :D

I'm no keyboard guy so who knows?

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Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two.

 

Maybe this guy can't afford the ones Geddy uses and had to get a bunch of cheapies to cover every soundbank :D

I'm no keyboard guy so who knows?

 

I only use two but honestly what Geddy uses now isn't even a keyboard. His top board is for leads in Subdivisions, Sawyer and one other I think.

 

The bottom keyboard is the "hit a key and it plays a sampled chord or sequence" like Mission or Between The Wheels. If you watch him on that stuff he's not playing it like a keyboard at all. So yeah, one keyboard is plenty if all it's doing is playing sampled songs from multiple keyboards.

 

I just use two and get as close as I can. I ain't loading 7 keyboards up to take to a gig even if I had 7. That plus basses plus the bass cabinet, pedals.... screw that.

 

All that said I prefer the 70's analog keys. Thick, fat and (I think someone else used this adjective) warm.

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Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two.

 

Maybe this guy can't afford the ones Geddy uses and had to get a bunch of cheapies to cover every soundbank :D

I'm no keyboard guy so who knows?

 

I only use two but honestly what Geddy uses now isn't even a keyboard. His top board is for leads in Subdivisions, Sawyer and one other I think.

 

The bottom keyboard is the "hit a key and it plays a sampled chord or sequence" like Mission or Between The Wheels. If you watch him on that stuff he's not playing it like a keyboard at all. So yeah, one keyboard is plenty if all it's doing is playing sampled songs from multiple keyboards.

 

I just use two and get as close as I can. I ain't loading 7 keyboards up to take to a gig even if I had 7. That plus basses plus the bass cabinet, pedals.... screw that.

 

All that said I prefer the 70's analog keys. Thick, fat and (I think someone else used this adjective) warm.

 

I've seen him play chords on the bottom keyboard for Subdivsions and Territories in videos. I think it can be used as both a sampler and a digital piano. I know that the hammond organ parts for Mission has always been pre-recorded, even in 1987-88.

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Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two.

 

Maybe this guy can't afford the ones Geddy uses and had to get a bunch of cheapies to cover every soundbank :D

I'm no keyboard guy so who knows?

 

I only use two but honestly what Geddy uses now isn't even a keyboard. His top board is for leads in Subdivisions, Sawyer and one other I think.

 

The bottom keyboard is the "hit a key and it plays a sampled chord or sequence" like Mission or Between The Wheels. If you watch him on that stuff he's not playing it like a keyboard at all. So yeah, one keyboard is plenty if all it's doing is playing sampled songs from multiple keyboards.

 

I just use two and get as close as I can. I ain't loading 7 keyboards up to take to a gig even if I had 7. That plus basses plus the bass cabinet, pedals.... screw that.

 

All that said I prefer the 70's analog keys. Thick, fat and (I think someone else used this adjective) warm.

 

I've seen him play chords on the bottom keyboard for Subdivsions and Territories in videos. I think it can be used as both a sampler and a digital piano. I know that the hammond organ parts for Mission has always been pre-recorded, even in 1987-88.

 

You're right. Forgot Subdivisions and can't recall territories. I know Analog Kid, Mission, Between The Wheels, Red Sector A now... he's even said that he'd rather play keys less but I thought that meant more bass, not an easier method.

 

As long as it's there, who cares. A key vs. a chord? Pffftt. Big deal. I only bitch cause I can't afford what he has. Haha I have to manually play everything. :eh:

Edited by KennyLee
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Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two.

 

Maybe this guy can't afford the ones Geddy uses and had to get a bunch of cheapies to cover every soundbank :D

I'm no keyboard guy so who knows?

 

I only use two but honestly what Geddy uses now isn't even a keyboard. His top board is for leads in Subdivisions, Sawyer and one other I think.

 

The bottom keyboard is the "hit a key and it plays a sampled chord or sequence" like Mission or Between The Wheels. If you watch him on that stuff he's not playing it like a keyboard at all. So yeah, one keyboard is plenty if all it's doing is playing sampled songs from multiple keyboards.

 

I just use two and get as close as I can. I ain't loading 7 keyboards up to take to a gig even if I had 7. That plus basses plus the bass cabinet, pedals.... screw that.

 

All that said I prefer the 70's analog keys. Thick, fat and (I think someone else used this adjective) warm.

 

I've seen him play chords on the bottom keyboard for Subdivsions and Territories in videos. I think it can be used as both a sampler and a digital piano. I know that the hammond organ parts for Mission has always been pre-recorded, even in 1987-88.

 

You're right. Forgot Subdivisions and can't recall territories. I know Analog Kid, Mission, Between The Wheels, Red Sector A now... he's even said that he'd rather play keys less but I thought that meant more bass, not an easier method.

 

As long as it's there, who cares. A key vs. a chord? Pffftt. Big deal. I only bitch cause I can't afford what he has. Haha I have to manually play everything. :eh:

 

Part of me wishes he'd play a little more and sample less, it's not like he's incapable. An example would be Grand Designs and the chorus of Between The Wheels. Part of me wishes he would sample the bass guitar and play the synth parts, especially seeing as how up in front the synths are on Grand Designs and Between The Wheels.

 

And then we have songs like Scars, which has an absolutley SEXY slap-bass riff and Geddy doesn't play it. Like with Red Sector A, he dosen't even have his bass strapped on him, he's just playing the piano the entire song.

 

But you know what, All criticism aside, Ged has proven to us what an incredibly talented man he is, so if he wants to be a little lazy in the keyboard department, it's perfectly okay. I don't blame him.

Edited by fraroc
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I prefer the 70's synths because they were used to accentuate the songs. The 80's synths became too dominant of a force on some of the albums of that time period.

 

This is it exactly. The 80's synths became like another member of Rush.

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I prefer the 70's synths because they were used to accentuate the songs. The 80's synths became too dominant of a force on some of the albums of that time period.

 

This is it exactly. The 80's synths became like another member of Rush.

 

Rush didn't want to become a four peice so Ged became proficient in another instrument, which makes him the most talented member of the band in my eyes.

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Well, I voted the 80s synths, but maybe I don't have it quite right based on what people are saying.

 

I have an affinity for the Oberheims, in particular the OB-X and Xa the most. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it might be my favorite synthesizer ever made.

 

"Subdivisions" is one of those sounds that has never been completely right live, at least on the versions I have heard. They are getting closer. One of the reasons why I lament the lack of a really, really good Signals-era bootleg is because there are few live versions of this song out there played on that tour, which I assume that Ged is playing the synth he played on the recording. He certainly wasn't by the time ASOH came around.

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Well, I voted the 80s synths, but maybe I don't have it quite right based on what people are saying.

 

I have an affinity for the Oberheims, in particular the OB-X and Xa the most. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it might be my favorite synthesizer ever made.

 

"Subdivisions" is one of those sounds that has never been completely right live, at least on the versions I have heard. They are getting closer. One of the reasons why I lament the lack of a really, really good Signals-era bootleg is because there are few live versions of this song out there played on that tour, which I assume that Ged is playing the synth he played on the recording. He certainly wasn't by the time ASOH came around.

 

Yeah I agree. It never sounded that great after the Signals tour up until just lately. It's sounded great in the last few years.

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Yeah in studio I prefer the warmth of analog synths as opposed to digital ones. Live its more practical to carry and use digi stuff at rhe cost of warmth. They can be so temperamental and lugging around a fully loaded Hammond and Leslie speaker doesnt seem ergonomic or cost effective. As Robert Fripp once said "Tuning a Mellotron doesn't".
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Yeah in studio I prefer the warmth of analog synths as opposed to digital ones. Live its more practical to carry and use digi stuff at rhe cost of warmth. They can be so temperamental and lugging around a fully loaded Hammond and Leslie speaker doesnt seem ergonomic or cost effective. As Robert Fripp once said "Tuning a Mellotron doesn't".

 

All of this talk of synths is really making me interested in one....

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Being the keyboard player in this Rush tribtute band, here is what I use.

 

I have 7 keyboards I use in live shows. I use 3 different keyboards for Jacobs Ladder (the middle part). A Korg DW8000 midi'd to Roland PK5 pedals to produce the low end bass sounds. A Roland R3 to produce a soft subtle string type pad for backround. And a Roland JP8000 for the lead "saw tooth" type sound for the solos.

 

The DW8000 is a product of the mid 80's, while the JP8000 was made in the mid 90's and the R3 was made in 2006. The Dw8000 is true analog synthesizer. The JP8000 is the first of it's kind to be an "analog modeling synthesizer" which generates sounds of a traditional analog synth using digital signal processing and software algorithms. Finally the R3 is a hybrid that covers analog and digital waveforms with oscillator algorithms.

Here is what all this stuff sounds like in a live situation. Enjoy!!

 

 

Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two. Then again, I've noticed that not all Rush tribute bands are trios like the real band. For example, your band Distant Signals has Geddy's job is given to three different guys. One for bass, one for vocals, one for keyboards. And that's okay, I'm not putting you guys down at all. Ged's job on stage is an impressive feat in of itself. Then again, the real Rush does use some measure of pre-recorded synth parts that are triggered by Ged. With your band, you can play all those parts that are normally pre-recorded like the synths on Where's My Thing?

 

But back to synths, I really should have done my research beforehand and learned all the inner workings of a synthesizer and how it's different from a regular keyboard. I've seen lots of videos on Youtube of people hooking up their old school synthesizers from the 80s to oscillographs so we can see the waves that are being produced every time a person presses one of the keys. An oscilloscope would be useless with a digital piano/MIDI controller because all a digital piano does is play back a sound that is already programmed into the machine, it doesn't create an audio signal like a synth does.

 

Actually, 1 of my synth boxes died so I am down to 6. I am trying to cut back to see if I can make it 5 or 4 currently. Each one has a bank of sounds that are needed for certain songs. I don't mind setting all this equipment up, and since I am a dedicated keyboardists all those sounds are played live, not with samples or "one touch" notes. Yes, Geddy may have 2 keyboards on stage, but he has alot more back stage that are tied into his rig out front. All the while being controlled by a keyboard tech. I have to be the "player" and "tech" all in one :)

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Being the keyboard player in this Rush tribtute band, here is what I use.

 

I have 7 keyboards I use in live shows. I use 3 different keyboards for Jacobs Ladder (the middle part). A Korg DW8000 midi'd to Roland PK5 pedals to produce the low end bass sounds. A Roland R3 to produce a soft subtle string type pad for backround. And a Roland JP8000 for the lead "saw tooth" type sound for the solos.

 

The DW8000 is a product of the mid 80's, while the JP8000 was made in the mid 90's and the R3 was made in 2006. The Dw8000 is true analog synthesizer. The JP8000 is the first of it's kind to be an "analog modeling synthesizer" which generates sounds of a traditional analog synth using digital signal processing and software algorithms. Finally the R3 is a hybrid that covers analog and digital waveforms with oscillator algorithms.

Here is what all this stuff sounds like in a live situation. Enjoy!!

 

 

Not that I'm judging you or your skills at all, but doesn't 7 different keyboards seem a little much for Rush? The most Ged ever had onstage was four and he currently does A-Ok with just two. Then again, I've noticed that not all Rush tribute bands are trios like the real band. For example, your band Distant Signals has Geddy's job is given to three different guys. One for bass, one for vocals, one for keyboards. And that's okay, I'm not putting you guys down at all. Ged's job on stage is an impressive feat in of itself. Then again, the real Rush does use some measure of pre-recorded synth parts that are triggered by Ged. With your band, you can play all those parts that are normally pre-recorded like the synths on Where's My Thing?

 

But back to synths, I really should have done my research beforehand and learned all the inner workings of a synthesizer and how it's different from a regular keyboard. I've seen lots of videos on Youtube of people hooking up their old school synthesizers from the 80s to oscillographs so we can see the waves that are being produced every time a person presses one of the keys. An oscilloscope would be useless with a digital piano/MIDI controller because all a digital piano does is play back a sound that is already programmed into the machine, it doesn't create an audio signal like a synth does.

 

Actually, 1 of my synth boxes died so I am down to 6. I am trying to cut back to see if I can make it 5 or 4 currently. Each one has a bank of sounds that are needed for certain songs. I don't mind setting all this equipment up, and since I am a dedicated keyboardists all those sounds are played live, not with samples or "one touch" notes. Yes, Geddy may have 2 keyboards on stage, but he has alot more back stage that are tied into his rig out front. All the while being controlled by a keyboard tech. I have to be the "player" and "tech" all in one :)

 

I've always feared that this could be the case but....Rush possibly has a ghost keyboardist playing backstage hidden from the audience?

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