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Brickwalled live sound?


fraroc
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I didn't really read any horror stories about it for the Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels tours, but I've heard plenty of complaints about the Time Machine tour having one of Rush's worst live sounds ever with complaints of the sound being so brickwalled that some people couldn't tell what songs were being played live. I didn't see them for TM, so did any of you notice this?
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I had to look up brickwalled. I did find this to be the case at some recent shows. I actually use a modified earplug which improved the sound some (to my ears). I also think (and those that know more can chime in) that sometimes the volume level works against them, they were one of the loudest shows I saw in a year when I saw 6-7 shows, and sometimes the volume just creates a racket and with no space or dynamic range some of the good stuff gets lost. Again, IMO.
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It's not the 'live sound', it's how the sound reacts with each venue. A totally crappy sound guy can get a decent sound at a good acoustics venue, ala Red Rocks, and the best sound man struggles to get any clarity at all in a boom box, ala Nassau Colisseum.

 

On top of that, you have to account for weather at outdoor shows. Any decent wind at places like Jones Beach just washes away the highs and causes a wishy-washy sound mess. Humidity causes lots of sound issues also.

 

Keep those things in mind when talking 'brickwalled'. The sound guy may have to lower the gain on mics because of wind problems, and then crank the fader up to get it back in the mix....which will give you that brickwalled sound. He may have to compress other channels if they have high heat or humidity that day, which can lead to the Vapor Trails effect. Too much compression and you start getting distortion artifacts in your sound.

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It's not the 'live sound', it's how the sound reacts with each venue. A totally crappy sound guy can get a decent sound at a good acoustics venue, ala Red Rocks, and the best sound man struggles to get any clarity at all in a boom box, ala Nassau Colisseum.

 

On top of that, you have to account for weather at outdoor shows. Any decent wind at places like Jones Beach just washes away the highs and causes a wishy-washy sound mess. Humidity causes lots of sound issues also.

 

Keep those things in mind when talking 'brickwalled'. The sound guy may have to lower the gain on mics because of wind problems, and then crank the fader up to get it back in the mix....which will give you that brickwalled sound. He may have to compress other channels if they have high heat or humidity that day, which can lead to the Vapor Trails effect. Too much compression and you start getting distortion artifacts in your sound.

 

You're dead on about Nassau. I saw them for PW and RTB there and WOW was it loud. There's a boot out there of the '86 PW tour and it is god awful sounding because of the volume in house.

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It's not the 'live sound', it's how the sound reacts with each venue. A totally crappy sound guy can get a decent sound at a good acoustics venue, ala Red Rocks, and the best sound man struggles to get any clarity at all in a boom box, ala Nassau Colisseum.

 

On top of that, you have to account for weather at outdoor shows. Any decent wind at places like Jones Beach just washes away the highs and causes a wishy-washy sound mess. Humidity causes lots of sound issues also.

 

Keep those things in mind when talking 'brickwalled'. The sound guy may have to lower the gain on mics because of wind problems, and then crank the fader up to get it back in the mix....which will give you that brickwalled sound. He may have to compress other channels if they have high heat or humidity that day, which can lead to the Vapor Trails effect. Too much compression and you start getting distortion artifacts in your sound.

 

You're dead on about Nassau. I saw them for PW and RTB there and WOW was it loud. There's a boot out there of the '86 PW tour and it is god awful sounding because of the volume in house.

 

I've definitley noticed that Trans Siberian Orchestra sounds WAY heavier and distorted than how they do on the record and in Youtube videos at Nassau.

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The 2 times i saw them they were loud but it was clear at the same time so no complaints here. I've been to show that nearly killed me, lol

 

P.S. Nassau does suck.......Roger Waters wall tour was ear splitting there.......but boy did we all have fun, lol

 

Mick

Edited by bluefox4000
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It's not the 'live sound', it's how the sound reacts with each venue. A totally crappy sound guy can get a decent sound at a good acoustics venue, ala Red Rocks, and the best sound man struggles to get any clarity at all in a boom box, ala Nassau Colisseum.

 

On top of that, you have to account for weather at outdoor shows. Any decent wind at places like Jones Beach just washes away the highs and causes a wishy-washy sound mess. Humidity causes lots of sound issues also.

 

Keep those things in mind when talking 'brickwalled'. The sound guy may have to lower the gain on mics because of wind problems, and then crank the fader up to get it back in the mix....which will give you that brickwalled sound. He may have to compress other channels if they have high heat or humidity that day, which can lead to the Vapor Trails effect. Too much compression and you start getting distortion artifacts in your sound.

 

I would think with indoor venues and with the sophistication of their sound guy's work before the show that a lot of this can be eliminated right? I remember the documentary where the sound guy discussed all these features.

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I think the clarity of sound depends on where you're sitting but for the most part it's sounded pretty consistent at each concert I've been to.
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Lerxt, they always do what they can before the show, but keep in mind 2 things: you can't fix structural problems (bad corners, un-audio-friendly materials), and the audience itself causes tons of changes compared to the empty house during sound check.....thus the 1st song mixing you often hear at a show to get it settled in.
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All of the indoor shows I've gone to, I've been lucky enough to have good sound. United Center in Chicago, Sprint Center in Kansas City, but the BEST sounding show by far was the second Time Machine show I went to in Omaha at the Qwest Center. Absolutely perfect sound.

 

The amphitheaters are hit and miss. The one in St. Louis has always been good sound, but the First Midwest Bank Amphitheater in Tinley Park has AWFUL sound.

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I had to look up brickwalled. I did find this to be the case at some recent shows. I actually use a modified earplug which improved the sound some (to my ears). I also think (and those that know more can chime in) that sometimes the volume level works against them, they were one of the loudest shows I saw in a year when I saw 6-7 shows, and sometimes the volume just creates a racket and with no space or dynamic range some of the good stuff gets lost. Again, IMO.

 

I would be interested in hearing details about your earplug. The last 2 concerts I attended. I had loud crackling in my ears after a few songs which really detracted from the enjoyment. I already wear a hearing aid in one ear, so I don,t want more hearing damage. I wear cheap earplugs now which help a bit. The worst was in Portland on CA tour. 3rd row Alex's side. Best view I,ve ever had, but Geddy sounded like Donald Duck. (Some rush haters would say he always sounds that way, but I love his voice and was so disappointed!). It might just have been b/c we were right under the speakers, though. I would like to get some good earplugs which will keep the quality of the sound while lowering the volume

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I think the venue is as much involved as anything else.

 

I've seen Rush at Red Rocks twice and I thought they sounded much better there than at Pepsi. Pepsi Center was all cymbals and sub bass and little else. Actually sounded better with my fingers in. I am going to take plugs this time.

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When I saw the Clockwork Angels show at the 1st Mariner Arena in Baltimore, my friend and I were on the floor, dead center (right next to the mixing consoles. I even spoke with Howard Underleider for a minute before the show. Very cool dude.)...but anyway...the sound at that show was PERFECT. Every instrument, including Geddy's vocals, cut through crisp and clear.

 

The show before THAT, at the Toyota Center in Houston, my father and I were on the upper deck, on Geddy's side. The sound wasn't BAD - but not quite as crisp as the Baltimore show. Many things factor into the sound quality of a concert, especially depending on where you are located in the arena.

Edited by ALifeson85
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Sometimes it's not the venue itself but where you're sitting. I knew several people that went to the last concert at Riverbend in Cincinnati and several said the sound was a bit muffled. To me it sounded very crisp and clear. But I was in the third row and they were about the 30th.
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