laughedatbytime Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Player, vote total, vote percentage: Randy Johnson 534 97.3Pedro Martinez 500 91.1John Smoltz 455 82.9Craig Biggio 454 82.7Mike Piazza 384 69.9Jeff Bagwell 306 55.7Tim Raines 302 55.0Curt Schilling 215 39.2Roger Clemens 206 37.5Barry Bonds 202 36.8 Congrats to the four inductees all of whom deserve to be in in my opinion (as do Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, and probably Schilling). Who the f*** DIDN'T vote for Pedro? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g under p Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Player, vote total, vote percentage: Randy Johnson 534 97.3Pedro Martinez 500 91.1John Smoltz 455 82.9Craig Biggio 454 82.7Mike Piazza 384 69.9Jeff Bagwell 306 55.7Tim Raines 302 55.0Curt Schilling 215 39.2Roger Clemens 206 37.5Barry Bonds 202 36.8 Congrats to the four inductees all of whom deserve to be in in my opinion (as do Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, and probably Schilling). Who the f*** DIDN'T vote for Pedro? It must have been what he said the Yankees and The Babe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadoood Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Was a big Astros fan for years and years (since about 1970 till the mid 90's, back when I loved baseball). Nice to see Biggio get in... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Good to see Biggio get in, I am on the fence about Bagwell. But Raines not making it baffles me, he was such a good all around player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Player, vote total, vote percentage: Randy Johnson 534 97.3Pedro Martinez 500 91.1John Smoltz 455 82.9Craig Biggio 454 82.7Mike Piazza 384 69.9Jeff Bagwell 306 55.7Tim Raines 302 55.0Curt Schilling 215 39.2Roger Clemens 206 37.5Barry Bonds 202 36.8 Congrats to the four inductees all of whom deserve to be in in my opinion (as do Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, and probably Schilling). Who the f*** DIDN'T vote for Pedro? It must have been what he said the Yankees and The Babe.... Was this his first year? If so, I assume that this is just the "first ballot hall of famers are different than the rest, and Pedro does not belong in that group" argument. If not, I have no explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think it is the "If Babe Ruth did not get 100%, no one should" stupid argument 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Oak Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Congrats to Biggio, Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz! Now if only Piazza can get in next year, I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHHEAD666 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch. I watched Pedro lose in Toronto to the Blue Jays a day after my wife and I saw Rush on the R30 Tour!!! Epic trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A Hall of Fame without Bonds and Rose... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHHEAD666 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 A Hall of Fame without Bonds and Rose... No Canseco? No McGwire? No Sosa? LOL! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 No Rose is worse to me than no Bonds .. though I think Bonds should be in ... no on Sammy, Mac, and Jose for sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingAllTheTime Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Player, vote total, vote percentage: Randy Johnson 534 97.3Pedro Martinez 500 91.1John Smoltz 455 82.9Craig Biggio 454 82.7Mike Piazza 384 69.9Jeff Bagwell 306 55.7Tim Raines 302 55.0Curt Schilling 215 39.2Roger Clemens 206 37.5Barry Bonds 202 36.8 Congrats to the four inductees all of whom deserve to be in in my opinion (as do Piazza, Bagwell, Raines, and probably Schilling). Who the f*** DIDN'T vote for Pedro? It must have been what he said the Yankees and The Babe.... Was this his first year? If so, I assume that this is just the "first ballot hall of famers are different than the rest, and Pedro does not belong in that group" argument. If not, I have no explanation. Exactly what I was going to suggest. There's a group of writers (sports writers - not athletes, mind you) who have this notion that a guy is a "first ballot HOFer" or a "HOFer". Really?! HOFer is a HOFer, yes? Why the distinction? But, let's be honest, the Baseball HOF is actually a first ballot fraud. It's a joke. Even it's location is based upon what is very clearly a ridiculous myth. There are so many examples of the HOF clearly not understanding the game and ignoring players who deserve entry. Raines should absolutely be in. He was *the* symbol of the running 80s, but that was a short era in baseball and many writers move on to the next thing - forgetting how important base stealing was to baseball, particularly the NL, in that era. There are half a dozen relievers/closers who should be in, but many writers refuse to acknowledge the fundamental shift in pitching that has occurred in the last 40 years and have only recently been letting a few relievers in. For a bunch of people who write about baseball all the time, they don't seem to understand the game much. That said, I am very happy for Biggio. Although I am a lifelong Cardinal guy and the Cards and Houston had a heated rivalry, I loved to watch Biggio play and have mad respect for him as a player and a person. There are only two non-Cardinal jerseys hanging in my closet. One is Clemente. The other is Biggio. No, I am not putting Biggio on the level of Clemente, but that shows how much I respect that guy as a player. Edited January 15, 2015 by WorkingAllTheTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidcrystalcompass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch.When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher I had ever seen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingAllTheTime Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 No Rose is worse to me than no Bonds .. though I think Bonds should be in ... no on Sammy, Mac, and Jose for sure I am curious.... why one steroid baby, but not the others? I will grant you Jose is a no go based upon stats, but if Bonds goes, I think it is hard to argue McGwire and Sosa out. Anyway, here's my take on the steroid era outrage and the writers freezing out some players: We are all either lying to ourselves or stupid. That's right. All of us. Writers, players, diehard fans, casual fans.... you, me, the guy next door, the whole of America. We are feigning our outrage because when we act outraged by steroid use in baseball we are saying one of two things: 1) I am a baseball liar. - or - 2) I am oblivious to the history and culture of baseball. The liars are pretending they didn't know something was amiss in the steroid era. They are pretending they didn't enjoy the show in the summer of 1998, all the while secretly thinking "but yeah, it's not exactly real". But, hey, our ignorance was bliss, right? No, not really. It was bliss, but we weren't ignorant. Everyone knew it was going on. It was such an open secret that baseball writers and the machine came up with the myth of the juiced *baseball* (tighter stitches because the Latin American child laborers were just so happy to be making baseballs in their reviving economy!) to try to somehow redirect our attention from the juiced *players*. Bud Selig was the man behind the green curtain and America was more than happy to pretend we didn't see him because Home Run Oz was so entertaining. The oblivious either just weren't paying attention to the freakish, unnatural Popeye forearms, the batting helmets that no longer fit right, and the otherwise unexplainable jump in numbers, or they don't know about the history of substance use and the culture of cheating in baseball. Baseball players have been trying to enhance their performance with chemicals for the better half of a century. The 1950s and 1960s use of amphetamines, for example, is well documented. Likewise, having been around many athletes, I can tell you the culture of cheating in baseball is deep and engrained. The "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" thing is actually derived from baseball. Stealing signs, going cleats high into second, sandpaper and oils on the baseball, pine tar, throwing at a batter, retaliating for a hit batter, etc. - these are all low-class cheats that aren't looked down upon in baseball, they are accepted and even endorsed. Hell, baseball even has it's "unwritten rules".... *that* is clearly the mark of a cheating culture. Only a bunch of cheaters would not openly say these are the rules - but they can't publish the unwritten rules because the unwritten rules are low class. Don't get me wrong.... I love baseball. LOVE it. But I have also come to realize I am a reformed "baseball liar" (I think the bulk of fans are actually baseball liars and not ignorant to history). My prior outrage (I used to pretend to be angry about it) over the steroid era was a fraud. I knew it was going on. I was complicit. I am fully aware that any argument the steroid users "hurt the integrity of the game" is a joke because baseball (again, which openly accepts it is sometimes okay to openly bean a player, among other things) is a game with very low integrity. We want baseball to be noble and regal and all things pure because it is our past time, but that's just not the case. Rather than ban the juicers, I say we let them in with one caveat.... all records set or broken during that era (we will let the writers define the years of that era since they will want to be in charge) get an asterisk to denote it was the steroid era and, as such, all records in that era are suspect. If not, I contend we are all lying to ourselves over and over and over again. Yes, sure Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, Palmeiro, Rodriguez, etc., etc., etc. all used steroids. Be we also cheered them on and acted as if we didn't know. We are just as guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidcrystalcompass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think McGwire should be in. He was never the best at his position during his era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingAllTheTime Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I don't think McGwire should be in. He was never the best at his position during his era. That could be argued, yes. Although Mac was a not a liability at first base. It's kind of hard to say Sosa and Bonds were high quality outfielders, as well. They were not necessarily liabilities, but also not All-Stars for defensive abilities. Realistically, very few of the steroid guys would be considered for defensive roles, it's all about offense for them. Maybe Pudge gets a look for defense, but even then he wasn't he premiere catcher during his era. Edited January 15, 2015 by WorkingAllTheTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidcrystalcompass Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't think McGwire should be in. He was never the best at his position during his era. That could be argued, yes. Although Mac was a not a liability at first base. It's kind of hard to say Sosa and Bonds were high quality outfielders, as well. They were not necessarily liabilities, but also not All-Stars for defensive abilities. Realistically, very few of the steroid guys would be considered for defensive roles, it's all about offense for them. Maybe Pudge gets a look for defense, but even then he wasn't he premiere catcher during his era.Pudge wasn't a premier catcher? What? State your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrinx Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I hope that Pete Rose gets in before he dies. I understand the ban, but he has paid the price. He was one of the greatest ever! And on the current list, Tim Raines deserves a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch.When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher I had ever seen. When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher anyone had ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch.When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher I had ever seen. When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher anyone had ever seen. Until pitch number 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch.When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher I had ever seen. When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher anyone had ever seen. Until pitch number 100. True, although he still managed to punch out Soriano to end the 7th in the 2003 ALCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A Hall of Fame without Bonds and Rose... I actually would let Bonds in first I think. Rose bet on games and lied about it. Bonds just did what so many others did in his time. But I'm actually OK with Bonds and the other known or obvious juicers being kept out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Nice. I saw Pedro during the 2000 season. Was awesome to watch.When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher I had ever seen. When he was at the top of his game, he was the best pitcher anyone had ever seen. Until pitch number 100. True, although he still managed to punch out Soriano to end the 7th in the 2003 ALCS. But, oh, that 8th. That was perhaps the most evenly matched, dramatic, and exciting ALCS of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A Hall of Fame without Bonds and Rose... I actually would let Bonds in first I think. Rose bet on games and lied about it. Bonds just did what so many others did in his time. But I'm actually OK with Bonds and the other known or obvious juicers being kept out. I'd just raise the bar for the juicers. Bonds gets in, but the juicing goes on the plaque. Ditto for Clemens and Rodriguez and any other confirmed or accused juicers (as long as the plaque differentiates between proven and alleged juicing). Juicers on the fence, like Sosa, McGwire, and Ortiz, I'm ok with keeping out. And I'd let Rose in, too. What he did had nothing to do with his playing, so I'd actually let him in before the juicers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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