Peyton Manning

[liquidcrystalcompass]

My feelings towards Manning don't stem from any rivalry whatsoever. From his time in college, until the NFL, I have never understood why he is held is such high esteem. He is no doubt a first ballot hall of famer, but he is not the greatest, nor should ever be considered the greatest that ever played. He's a great quarterback. He's not a great football player.

[g under p]

My feelings towards Manning don't stem from any rivalry whatsoever. From his time in college, until the NFL, I have never understood why he is held is such high esteem. He is no doubt a first ballot hall of famer, but he is not the greatest, nor should ever be considered the greatest that ever played. He's a great quarterback. He's not a great football player.

 

I thought his father #8 of the Saints Archie was as good, he just played most of career with a horrible team in NO.

[laughedatbytime]

Most passing TDs, most passing yards by the time he hangs it up, seasonal record for all time TD passes by 5, most yards in a season, most career AV since 1950 7 straight 12 win seasons with not a lot of talent on defense. As a regular season QB, I don't think there's much question he's the greatest.

 

Mediocre at best playoff record knocks him out of contention for the all time greatest but still a top 5 QB all time.

[Principled Man]

He's a great quarterback. He's not a great football player.

 

What, exactly, would he have to do in order to be a great football player?

[Principled Man]

Mediocre at best playoff record knocks him out of contention for the all time greatest but still a top 5 QB all time.

 

"No quarterback has ever won a Super Bowl by himself." (Aaron Rodgers)

 

Peyton Manning doesn't block, run routes, catch the ball, carry the ball, or play defense. His TEAMS have had a mediocre playoff record. In the playoffs, a team can't just put the entire game on one player's shoulders. Manning's father would have won many rings if his team had been any good.

 

 

[laughedatbytime]

Mediocre at best playoff record knocks him out of contention for the all time greatest but still a top 5 QB all time.

 

"No quarterback has ever won a Super Bowl by himself." (Aaron Rodgers)

 

Peyton Manning doesn't block, run routes, catch the ball, carry the ball, or play defense. His TEAMS have had a mediocre playoff record. In the playoffs, a team can't just put the entire game on one player's shoulders. Manning's father would have won many rings if his team had been any good.

Well, sure it's his team's record. Just like it's his team's regular season record. His contribution to both records (to the extent it can be isolated) has not been that dissimilar to his team's records (hardly surprising for probably the most important player on at least one side of the ball). In fact he's had good to outstanding playoff performances that haven't resulted in wins and playoff performances that have been fairly poor to mediocre (like the run in his SB winning year in 2006) that have resulted in wins. On balance though I believe that his playoff performance however judged is enough to move him from the peak in the regular season to something slightly less overall.

[Syrinx]

oh man I love the defence that it is about the whole team not just the QB. If only Tony Romo was given that latitude until his current league MVP season.

[Syrinx]

That being said, I think we are seeing Peyton in an inevitable decline right now. Time and the hits have finally caught up to him. I wouldn't look at how he is playing now as a gauge on his all time greatness.

[nappy2112]

He's the greatest QB I've ever seen live or on TV . :finbar:

[Principled Man]

oh man I love the defence that it is about the whole team not just the QB. If only Tony Romo was given that latitude until his current league MVP season.

 

Most of the time, the QB gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. Romo's performances get lots of criticism simply because he's a Cowboy. The media LOVES to talk about the Cowboys - both positively and negatively. Any time the media can make a story about Romo screwing up (and Jerry Jones' reaction to it), they'll jump all over it.

 

Almost every year, there are several players who are deserving of the MVP award. It comes down to the Associated Press voters and who they "like". There are several NFL MVP awards. The AP award is the most recognized one, but as we all know, the Associated Press does not speak for everyone.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Principled Man

[Rick N. Backer]

I think he has an amazing arm and touch with his passes. I think his biggest weakness is he can be confused and he makes bad decisions when that happens.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

He's a great quarterback. He's not a great football player.

 

What, exactly, would he have to do in order to be a great football player?

Choke less in big games. You can get into his head. All you have to do is take him out of his rhythm/comfort zone. In big games, you can take the fight out of him.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

He's the greatest QB I've ever seen live or on TV . :finbar:

Until someone hits him.

[laughedatbytime]

He's the greatest QB I've ever seen live or on TV . :finbar:

Until someone hits him.

This is true of all QBs.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

He's the greatest QB I've ever seen live or on TV . :finbar:

Until someone hits him.

This is true of all QBs.

No. I never saw Montana or Staubach cower in games. Manning will flat out quit sometimes.

[Slack jaw gaze]

Owning nearly every record and changing the way the game is played while having average NFL arm strength (in his prime), a 40 time that rivals mine, and no ability to throw a spiral is about as strong a case for "greatness" as any athlete has ever had in any sport.

 

Every game he plays is must-watch TV. The only other player that was must-watch for me was Barry Sanders, but for a totally different kind of greatness.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Slack jaw gaze

[liquidcrystalcompass]

Owning nearly every record and changing the way the game is played while having average NFL arm strength (in his prime), a 40 time that rivals mine, and no ability to throw a spiral is about as strong a case for "greatness" as any athlete has ever had in any sport.

 

Every game he plays is must-watch TV. The only other player that was must-watch for me was Barry Sanders, but for a totally different kind of greatness.

And as great as Barry Sanders was, he had his warts too.

 

Manning often disappears in big games. My point is that I've seen better. Seen better in his era too.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

And as far as changing the game. The new style sucks and it's a huge part of why I don't like him. 5,000 five yard passes isn't fun to watch. When in a physical game, where slobber-knockers are everywhere, Manning quietly loses.

[Slack jaw gaze]

When in a physical game, where slobber-knockers are everywhere, Manning quietly loses.

All NFL games are physical. What you seem to be saying is when his team is on the business end of an ass-whipping his team loses. Yeah, that's kind of how football works.

[Principled Man]

When in a physical game, where slobber-knockers are everywhere, Manning quietly loses.

 

All NFL games are physical. What you seem to be saying is when his team is on the business end of an ass-whipping his team loses. Yeah, that's kind of how football works.

 

Indeed.....Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees have all lost "physical" games in similar fashion; the opposing defenses get a strong pass rush. Too often these days, people say that a team has "shown the blueprint" for beating a certain QB. Well, that blueprint has been well-known for the past 40 years; it's a good, strong pass rush.

 

Every defense plays physical football, but some defenses are better at it than others. The better defenses can beat the great QB's of today's pass-happy game.

[Rick N. Backer]

When in a physical game, where slobber-knockers are everywhere, Manning quietly loses.

 

All NFL games are physical. What you seem to be saying is when his team is on the business end of an ass-whipping his team loses. Yeah, that's kind of how football works.

 

Indeed.....Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees have all lost "physical" games in similar fashion; the opposing defenses get a strong pass rush. Too often these days, people say that a team has "shown the blueprint" for beating a certain QB. Well, that blueprint has been well-known for the past 40 years; it's a good, strong pass rush.

 

Every defense plays physical football, but some defenses are better at it than others. The better defenses can beat the great QB's of today's pass-happy game.

 

I agree 1 billion percent (does that exist?). Nothing makes me angrier than seeing the Patriots slightly ahead late in the game and seeing Brady in the shotgun on first down. Last year in the playoffs LeGarrett Blount gashes the Colts for 200 yards, the next week he didn't need his helmet. Want to slow a pass rush down? Run the ball effectively. Want to make a marquee QB better? Run the ball effectively.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

When in a physical game, where slobber-knockers are everywhere, Manning quietly loses.

All NFL games are physical. What you seem to be saying is when his team is on the business end of an ass-whipping his team loses. Yeah, that's kind of how football works.

Not completely true. You are talking half truths here. Some games are more physical than others. I've watched my own team change from a finesse team to a smash mouth team over the last year or so. The Broncos are a finesse team. That doesn't mean that you can't win with a finesse team. But a physical team usually has a better chance. Bottom line. Hit Manning and he will quit. He has a proven track record of it that people often turn a blind eye to. Edited December 28, 2014 by liquidcrystalcompass

[Slack jaw gaze]

Hit Manning and he will quit. He has a proven track record of it that people often turn a blind eye to.

Hit any quarterback and you will probably win. Ain't nobody a hall of famer with Decon Jones in his grill. I've seen every Peyton Manning game (save a handful) since 2001 and I've never seen this mythical "quit" that you seem to deduce from facial expressions I assume.

 

Browse the statistics here for absolutely no evidence to support your assertion.

[liquidcrystalcompass]

Hit Manning and he will quit. He has a proven track record of it that people often turn a blind eye to.

Hit any quarterback and you will probably win. Ain't nobody a hall of famer with Decon Jones in his grill. I've seen every Peyton Manning game (save a handful) since 2001 and I've never seen this mythical "quit" that you seem to deduce from facial expressions I assume.

 

Browse the statistics here for absolutely no evidence to support your assertion.

Yes there is. It is his overall playoff record vs. his regular season one. In the regular season, his stats are undeniable. In the post season they are slightly less stellar. But in critical times in big games, you can rattle the man to the point he can't regroup. Take Manning out of his rhythm in a really big game and more cases than not, he won't recover. Maybe "quit" was the wrong word but in a sense it is the right one. He will quit playing to his potential when put in the circumstances I just stated. That is one of the reason why Brady owns him. Peyton is a HOF QB no doubt. He's just not the best nor should be mentioned with the best. Big games are the main reason why. I just don't like him being mentioned as the greatest of all time when he wasn't even the greatest in his own era.

[LedRush]

Manning is the best passer under the current NFL rules. He runs the offense like no other QB of his time, and he does it with brains more than physical skill. He's the best of his generation, and among the best ever.