Chickenbacker Bass: To buy or not to buy?

[Del_Duio]

I went into a guitar store recently and on the wall I nearly shat myself when I saw what looked like a Ric bass up on the wall. Well, turns out it was a Korean or Chinese knock-off but I was amazed at just how much it really looks like one. I tried it out for laughs and it actually plays and sounds really good too.

 

I didn't take a picture of it, however it looks almost exactly like the sunburst one in this picture below to the right of the purple doubleneck. The only difference is it has some other company name written in black up on the headstock but otherwise this is just what it looks like. I can get it for about $400 or so, which of course is about a billion dollars less than trying to find and buy a "real" one.

 

I mostly play Fenders and Ibanez soundgears, and this one feels a bit different in that there's no real place for me to rest my thumb aside from the top of the thin pickguard (usually I use the top of one of the pickups). For you guys who've played a real Ric or even own one, what are your thoughts on them and would getting a Chickenbacker for tons less that sounds pretty decent even be worthwhile? I don't play in a band anymore and aside from the occasional video nobody's ever going to see it I'd guess aside from my wife and my kids haha.

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/rick4001s/the_troop2.jpg

Edited October 29, 2014 by Del_Duio

[KennyLee]

Why not? They look awesome. Be prepared to fix some wiring (notoriously bad) but if it plays and sounds good, do it!

 

Just don't try to sell it as a genuine Ric. Bad form.

[Del_Duio]

Oh no, I wouldn't resell it. I hate selling basses in general as I always end up wishing I hadn't years later down the line.

 

Prime example: Some Korean fretless I picked up for $200 in 1994 that was SO COOL. No brand name, charcoal gray and had a decal on it that said "Lady Luck" in cursive. Weighed about 6 pounds tops and was really comfortable. Never saw one before or since. Somewhere I have a polaroid of it which is the only proof that it even existedat all lol.

 

Another one was a black headless that was (I think) some Ibanez from the mid 80's. At the time it was the only other headless bass I'd ever seen that wasn't a Steinberger. I got it in the cheap-o section of a Daddy's Junky Music store next to Berklee in 1995 or 6.

 

I had to sell both to help pay for moving costs and really regret it.

 

Thanks Kenny!

Edited October 29, 2014 by Del_Duio

[KennyLee]

Oh no, I wouldn't resell it. I hate selling basses in general as I always end up wishing I hadn't years later down the line.

 

Prime example: Some Korean fretless I picked up for $200 in 1994 that was SO COOL. No brand name, charcoal gray and had a decal on it that said "Lady Luck" in cursive. Weighed about 6 pounds tops and was really comfortable. Never saw one before or since. Somewhere I have a polaroid of it which is the only proof that it even existedat all lol.

 

Another one was a black headless that was (I think) some Ibanez from the mid 80's. At the time it was the only other headless bass I'd ever seen that wasn't a Steinberger. I got it in the cheap-o section of a Daddy's Junky Music store next to Berklee in 1995 or 6.

 

I had to sell both to help pay for moving costs and really regret it.

 

Thanks Kenny!

 

I hear ya. I always miss a bass when I sell it.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I have both a 4001 and a 360-12. They are high quality instruments. Though I do favor my Fender J's over the Ric.

 

I would be concerned the chicken is made of plywood and not solid maple. Also the electronics should be considered suspect. Just looking at the picture the necks don't look quite right. The 12 string in particular looks to be pointing toward the other neck, not parallel. 4080-12s have the guitar neck on the bottom, not the top. The neck pickups on the basses are in different positions and the one in the blue one is a little crooked.

 

That's just what I can see in that picture. Picking it up would probably yield more discrepancies. They look cheap in the picture. The finishes look nice but that's about it.

 

A wiring harness from Rickenbacker is about $70 and pickups are $150 each, nearly $400 for just the electronics alone for authentic parts.

 

Caveat emptor.

[Babycat]

That double purple one's stunning! :D

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

That double purple one's stunning! :D

It looks crooked. And the truss rod cover on the 12 string is hanging over into the tuning machine cavity. :)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Just found this:

[Babycat]

That double purple one's stunning! :D

It looks crooked. And the truss rod cover on the 12 string is hanging over into the tuning machine cavity. :)

Have just noticed that. Seeing as they're thin-necked, I've heard that you have to be careful how you store them as the neck(s) can bend. :)

[Del_Duio]

Thanks Cyg, if I can I'll try and go back and get some pictures of the chicken to show more close-up details. The inconsistencies you spotted on the doubleneck I wouldn't have noticed or even known to have looked for them.

 

I have no idea what type of wood it's made out of, I mean it's not overly light or noticibly heavy. The shop has a luthier section in the back so maybe I can get them to weigh it and get more specifics. I'm not sure how it came into their shop in the first place.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

That double purple one's stunning! :D

It looks crooked. And the truss rod cover on the 12 string is hanging over into the tuning machine cavity. :)

Have just noticed that. Seeing as they're thin-necked, I've heard that you have to be careful how you store them as the neck(s) can bend. :)

Any wooden guitar neck is subject to the elements. These are basic construction issues. Rickenbacker necks are anything but thin.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Thanks Cyg, if I can I'll try and go back and get some pictures of the chicken to show more close-up details. The inconsistencies you spotted on the doubleneck I wouldn't have noticed or even known to have looked for them.

 

I have no idea what type of wood it's made out of, I mean it's not overly light or noticibly heavy. The shop has a luthier section in the back so maybe I can get them to weigh it and get more specifics. I'm not sure how it came into their shop in the first place.

Actual pictures would help. Front, back, headstock, pickups and jack plate please!

 

I saw another site that shows a side view of one of these with a worn finish and you can see the plies of the body that look like a wafer cookie. Clearly not solid.

 

As the guy in the video points out the knock offs have a glued in neck as opposed to being through the body, contain only one truss rod, inferior electronics and only mono out. They are also too thick and have a strange bevel on the upper body. Also there is no radius on the bridge. Yikes!

 

Looking at pictures of the necks I see cheap pearl inlay instead of the higher quality inlay on actual Rics. Ric fretboards are light colored rosewood with a thick gloss finish. The knockoffs have exposed wood fretboards.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Oh and at one point I owned an Ibanez "lawsuit" double neck that was essentially an EDS-1275 like Alex and Jimmy Page had. It had bolt on necks but they were straight. It was the only guitar I wanted to get rid of after I got it. That was because of how it was wired. I should have kept it anyway. :)

[PW_Guitarist]

I have one sold under the brand name "Fishbone" which I paid $500 for brand new from a north american distributor. It sounds decent as is and has the bass on the correct side, but I still wouldn't call it authentic, not by a long shot. The bass is long scale (like a Ric) but the body is proportionally smaller such that a Ric bridge would stick out so they used individual saddles. It's a good thing our bassist is a small guy, it sort of looks full scale on him. I paid $200 to have the necks properly setup by a professional luthier and it actually plays and sounds decent, but I have a real 4003 and I would not even compare it. Unless you specifically want the doubleneck, you'd be better off saving for a 4003 or a 480.

 

In the end, you get what you pay for. Don't expect miracles from a doubleneck costing a few hundred dollars. I still have my '74 Ibanez 2404 6/4 doubleneck, and that is a good guitar in comparison, but it does not have the Ric look. Since you will realistically never buy a real 4080, the chinese copies aren't so bad as long as you don't pay more than a few hundred for the instrument and be ready to invest almost as much to upgrade the electronics and have it properly setup by a professional luthier. Another caveat is to not order it directly from overseas as Ric apparently gets about half the shipments seized as counterfeit.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I think he said he's going for a 4001/3 knockoff in the OP. Like the "fireglo" one pictured above.

 

I agree with PW about saving for a real one. They can be had used for surprise deals. I got both of my Rics for deals by talking to the right people. My 360-12 was taking up space in the house of the mother of a former GC assistant manager's ex-girlfriend (left behind by the mother's ex-boyfriend- I will make no comment as to the women in that family, but I digress) until I asked around if any body knew where to find one. She didn't know what it was worth and wanted it gone. I offered a grand and she took it. Win win. I got my 4001 from a dear friend and bass player for most of my drumming years for a steal because he sold the SG I sold him to our former guitar player who traded it away, after promising to sell it only to me. So I got one of his Rics for an embarrassingly cheap price after he had a custom fretless J made.

 

Deals are out there. Check out guitar shows in your area. Those guys love to deal.

[KennyLee]

Ric 4003's are going for about $1600 right now. Worth saving for but a far cry from $400 for something he's going to play in his own home. It will need some work when you get it but screw it, it looks cool. A little TLC and they're not bad.

 

I actually just got a 4080/6 copy and am in the process of getting it up to speed. It looks really cool. Exact? No, but cool. It's gonna be a showpiece for Xanadu and Bangkok. Like I said, it is nor "perfect" but it did save me about $14,000.00 so... ya know.

[Del_Duio]

Thanks Cyg, if I can I'll try and go back and get some pictures of the chicken to show more close-up details. The inconsistencies you spotted on the doubleneck I wouldn't have noticed or even known to have looked for them.

 

I have no idea what type of wood it's made out of, I mean it's not overly light or noticibly heavy. The shop has a luthier section in the back so maybe I can get them to weigh it and get more specifics. I'm not sure how it came into their shop in the first place.

Actual pictures would help. Front, back, headstock, pickups and jack plate please!

 

I saw another site that shows a side view of one of these with a worn finish and you can see the plies of the body that look like a wafer cookie. Clearly not solid.

 

As the guy in the video points out the knock offs have a glued in neck as opposed to being through the body, contain only one truss rod, inferior electronics and only mono out. They are also too thick and have a strange bevel on the upper body. Also there is no radius on the bridge. Yikes!

 

Looking at pictures of the necks I see cheap pearl inlay instead of the higher quality inlay on actual Rics. Ric fretboards are light colored rosewood with a thick gloss finish. The knockoffs have exposed wood fretboards.

 

I should be be there hopefully by sometime next week to see it again (it's not really close to my house or work). It for sure doesn't have the Ric O Sound thing. It has a 3-way pickup selection switch and 4 tone / volume knobs but God knows what they really do. (Maybe one of them radios in some take-out lol) It doesn't look like it's built cheaply so maybe I'll luck out and it'll be one of the better made copies instead of the plywood supremes.

[Del_Duio]

Ric 4003's are going for about $1600 right now. Worth saving for but a far cry from $400 for something he's going to play in his own home. It will need some work when you get it but screw it, it looks cool. A little TLC and they're not bad.

 

Yeah I agree. I told myself long ago that the most expensive bass I'd ever treat myself to later in life would be a Spector NS-2. I had played a blue one in 1996 and my god I love those friggin things. I saw one used at an Ohio music store last year for $1400 IIRC. I don't know how "good" they are to a real bassist, but I haven't played anything remotely close to that cool before or since.*

 

*Okay, the Musicman Stingray was pretty awesome too.. :)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

This thread has inspired me to break out my 4001. I have it tuned down to Eb but it plays really well and has its own sound. There is one on eBay right now for $1895, same finish and year as mine. That's a bit pricey. The market on these goes up and down. This time of year they go up. The cheapest one I'm seeing online is $1400 and the cheaper ones seem to be newer ones. I would venture a guess a 4003 with a less desirable finish (other than Jetglo, Fireglo and perhaps cream which is no longer in use) could be had for around $1200.

 

You'd be surprised how quickly $400 can become $1000 with discipline and diligence.

 

Buying an instrument for how it looks is ridiculous. Especially an inferior piece that resembles an iconic instrument. The reason certain instruments are held in high regard is because of how they sound and play. They also generally increase in value, even if resale is not considered its value over time will only increase. The same cannot be said for any knockoff aside from the lawsuit Ibanez guitars which were well made and only for a limited time.

 

It may be easy for others to spend your money in the guise of immediate gratification, I cannot in good conscience go along. I am all about getting the right gear at the right price and making smart purchases after due diligence and patience. It's easy to get caught up in gotta-have-it fever, especially when it's not your money, but thinking critically and being frugal are essential in making good instrument purchase decisions. One must be willing to forego a good deal to get a great deal. As a buyer you have the power to walk away.

 

You have to assume a store is selling a used piece for twice what they paid for it. If a piece has been in a store for too long they need to move it to make room for new gear. If you really want this thing you gotta be willing to let it go. Seriously. With used gear they have to sit on it for a month for police hold. After a month it's value starts to decrease to the store. The longer it sits the more they want to move it. If they are selling this for $400 offer them $250. If you really want it then for that price it is surely a deal and you can apply the "leftover" cash to better electronics. If they say no then walk away. Just see how far you get until they start negotiating. Listen but hold fast to your offer. They will ask for more but offer extras like strings, cables or whatever. Even at $250 the store is making a profit on the deal. When they ask for more offer $225. All of a sudden $250 sounds better than it did initially. The key is being strong in your resolve. A good sales guy knows how to make a sale by assuming a customer comes into the store to spend money. My best friend is one of the best GC sales people in the chain. He cannot be fired by a store manager, it has to go through corporate first because of how much gear he moves. He can get a sale from anybody who walks in and I see him do it regularly. I know how sales guys think. I know how stores value gear. There is no reason to pay the marked price on any piece of gear. Because of the nature of this particular piece you need to understand how the store values this piece, which is not highly I assure you.

Edited November 1, 2014 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

After comparing my 4001 to the picture above I am noticing some other things... The proportions are wrong. If I take a straight edge and rest it on the top bout perpendicular to the neck the straight edge crosses the neck just after the 12th fret where on the ones pictured above the upper bouts are even with the middle of the 13th-14th fret which is odd because the bodies above look bigger than a real Ric, width-wise and are according to the video guy. Looking at mine there is less overall space around the neck between the bouts than the ones pictured above. Also as the video guy pointed out there are two extra frets on the knockoff, plus on mine there is about a 3/16" gap from the end of the bridge to the end of the body where the ones above are clearly further away from the end. This coupled with the extra frets can only mean that the scale is way off. Video also pointed out the the knockoff headstock is angled where a real one is not.

 

Under real scrutiny this thing is less and less like a Rickenbacker other than the overall shape. :D

[Del_Duio]

While playing I did notice that I was having some difficulty getting to the correct notes up on the neck. At first I thought it was because of the triangular inlays (I'm 100% used to dot, dot, double dots on the 12th and 24th fret for example) but now I wonder if the whole thing's got weirdly marked frets. Or maybe the scale was strange. When I go back I'll try to remember to really pay close attention to everything.

 

This might sound a bit strange, but though sound and playability of course should be the #1 reason to buy an instrument have you ever played on something a bit different and while doing so become inspired to write something you wouldn't normally have written? What I mean is let's say you pick up even this Chickenbacker and somehow it inspires you to write some really cool off-timing stuff because in your mind's eye for that brief instant you're Geddy or Squire :)

 

On Friday night I was over my new uncle in law's house and we were all talking about music and he brought out a hoffner style bass that I guess has been in his attic for 20 some odd years. It sounded very cool, and though not my first choice for anything I'd ever do it had a completely unique look and sounded almost like a huge stand-up bass. So while fiddling around I made up these jazzy lines - make no mistake, not true jazz as I'm nowhere near that good- and I'd never had even thought about coming up with these lines if it weren't played on this bass in the first place.

 

In this regard I almost think an instrument's look could have some real value to the musician, even if he's the only one who'll ever see it. Sorry, does this make any sense or is it a case of the Monday morning ramblings? :)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Oh yeah. Different instruments bring out different things when I play them. The way they feel can set you in a direction. Even my own stuff that I don't play often can inspire certain things. I've been playing my 4001 a lot over the past few days and will play it in rehearsal tomorrow night. I find that even playing it gives me a different outlook, so to speak. I forget how nice it is to play.

 

Interesting about the Hofner "style" you mention. Obviously not an actual one by your writing but still those types are very light weight. The friend I bought my Ric from has a Kent bass that looks like a twisted Hofner. You can actually get a decent new Hofner for less than $400 these days. There is little difference between their new $600 and $1400 models, mostly finish stuff- the pickups and wood are the same. McCartney still plays his. One of them at least, I think they made him some replicas recently.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Ok, beating the dead horse here...

 

I had rehearsal tonight and played my Ricky. We were talking about potential songs to do so I jokingly said Hemispheres and started to play. It sounded like.... Hemispheres! A Ric into an Ampeg. Go figure. The Ric has that distinctive bite that really differs from a J. It's hard to describe without sitting in front of an amp but it has THAT sound. Not even Rick-O-Sound, just plain ol' mono. Brilliant!

[Del_Duio]

Aw man, I'm jealous I gotta' admit :)

 

I always thought Geddy used some sort of light distortion which helped him get that sound. So you're saying if you plug straight into an amp clean with a Ric it sounds semi distorted?

 

P.S: Awesome you're in a band that can just start tossing out Hemispheres!

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Well, I was playing it, nobody else was.

 

There is a quality to the sound of a Ric that lives in the upper mids which has a biting quality. It is distortion like. Definitely has an aggressive edge. I'm not sure whether it's the finish on the neck or the pickups or the combination of the two. It could have something to do with the bridge too. When it's played while not plugged in that quality doesn't really come across the way it does plugged in, though it's still audible. Playing a J unplugged and going between the two the tones are similar so I am thinking the pickups play a large part. Geddy's Rics, like mine, have the "newer" style Hi Gain pickups where McCartney's and Squire's have the original "Toaster Top" pickup in the neck position with a U magnet pickup in the bridge position. I would love to sit and play with one of those models.

 

The Ric boutique sells all of their pickups so I could swap them out at some point. The toaster tops are $150 (both bass and guitar versions), U magnets are $200 and the Hi Gains are $75. The wiring harness for bass is $60 (includes push-pull treble [bridge] tone pot) plus they sell the two jacks (mono & ROS) as a set for $25.