Best Use of Hi-Hat in a Rush song

[Lorraine]

That's the bass drum. Neil has one foot on the bass drum pedal, the other on the hi-hat pedal, and the faster, repetitive rhythm of the cymbal sound is what he's playing with the sticks.

How does he do it? It's not like each of these is doing the same thing. To my ears (and I may be wrong since I am not a musician), it sounds like each one is a different beat. How does he not get confused and lose what sounds like different beats?

 

It is a trickier rhythm than it sounds, to get it down exactly. And I am a drummer...but I'm not Neil. Hahaha. I can do a reasonable facsimile of what he does in that song. It isn't just in the beginning, but the sound of the hi-hat is also prominent in the refrain (beginning with "He's not afraid of your judgment")...

 

To answer your question, playing the drums, and especially playing what Neil and other consummate professional drummers play, is a matter of having concise control over both arms and both legs- all of them doing different things at the same time.

That last line is it and how I have heard it and marveled how any human being could have such concentration that they could do it and not mess up. To me, all it would take is a momentary distraction to lose the concentration and destroy the song.

[Lorraine]

If you can get this to load, Lorraine, I think you'll find it worthwhile.

 

http://youtu.be/Wea_zXuLcP0

JARG, thanks, but some time in the past year they changed something on these videos and now I can't get anything to load at all. I always get an "error" notification that pops up.

[JARG]

That's the bass drum. Neil has one foot on the bass drum pedal, the other on the hi-hat pedal, and the faster, repetitive rhythm of the cymbal sound is what he's playing with the sticks.

How does he do it? It's not like each of these is doing the same thing. To my ears (and I may be wrong since I am not a musician), it sounds like each one is a different beat. How does he not get confused and lose what sounds like different beats?

 

It is a trickier rhythm than it sounds, to get it down exactly. And I am a drummer...but I'm not Neil. Hahaha. I can do a reasonable facsimile of what he does in that song. It isn't just in the beginning, but the sound of the hi-hat is also prominent in the refrain (beginning with "He's not afraid of your judgment")...

 

To answer your question, playing the drums, and especially playing what Neil and other consummate professional drummers play, is a matter of having concise control over both arms and both legs- all of them doing different things at the same time.

That last line is it and how I have heard it and marveled how any human being could have such concentration that they could do it and not mess up. To me, all it would take is a momentary distraction to lose the concentration and destroy the song.

 

I'm not a drummer, but I wouldn't be surprised if after a time it's not so much a matter of concentration as it is muscle memory. Certainly there comes a point in guitar playing where stuff that used to require all my concentration now requires next to none. My hands just sort of seem to know what to do.

[EagleMoon]

That's the bass drum. Neil has one foot on the bass drum pedal, the other on the hi-hat pedal, and the faster, repetitive rhythm of the cymbal sound is what he's playing with the sticks.

How does he do it? It's not like each of these is doing the same thing. To my ears (and I may be wrong since I am not a musician), it sounds like each one is a different beat. How does he not get confused and lose what sounds like different beats?

 

It is a trickier rhythm than it sounds, to get it down exactly. And I am a drummer...but I'm not Neil. Hahaha. I can do a reasonable facsimile of what he does in that song. It isn't just in the beginning, but the sound of the hi-hat is also prominent in the refrain (beginning with "He's not afraid of your judgment")...

 

To answer your question, playing the drums, and especially playing what Neil and other consummate professional drummers play, is a matter of having concise control over both arms and both legs- all of them doing different things at the same time.

That last line is it and how I have heard it and marveled how any human being could have such concentration that they could do it and not mess up. To me, all it would take is a momentary distraction to lose the concentration and destroy the song.

 

That's why he always has that look of concentration on his face.

[Lorraine]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

[len(songs)]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

The right hand rests on the main part, or "body", and typically plucks or picks the strings to make the sound. On the fretboard (the part that sticks out), the left hand holds down the strings against the metal "frets" to make them shorter so that they play different notes.

Edited October 22, 2014 by len(songs)

[Lorraine]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

The right hand rests on the main part, or "body", and typically plucks or picks the strings to make the sound. On the fretboard (the part that sticks out), the left hand holds down the strings against the metal "frets" to make them shorter so that they play different notes.

I could just see myself trying to do that. :rfl:

 

Thank you, Len.

[JARG]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

 

A typical guitar has 4 parts: the headstock (where the tuning pegs are), the neck (the long part) and the body. The 4th part is the fretboard which is inlaid into the neck and contains the frets, which are the metal lines that segment the fretboard. Most guitars have either 22 or 24 frets.

 

If you're a right handed guitarist, your right hand's main job is to strum/pick the strings to get them vibrating and your left hand's main job is to press down on the strings behind the desired frets to sound the notes. If you're playing chords, your left-hand fingers generally don't move much until it's time to change to a new chord, but if you're playing leads/melodies, your fingers move from string to string and/or from fret to fret in order to "finger" different notes.

[Lorraine]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

 

A typical guitar has 4 parts: the headstock (where the tuning pegs are), the neck (the long part) and the body. The 4th part is the fretboard which is inlaid into the neck and contains the frets, which are the metal lines that segment the fretboard. Most guitars have either 22 or 24 frets.

 

If you're a right handed guitarist, your right hand's main job is to strum/pick the strings to get them vibrating and your left hand's main job is to press down on the strings behind the desired frets to sound the notes. If you're playing chords, your left-hand fingers generally don't move much until it's time to change to a new chord, but if you're playing leads/melodies, your fingers move from string to string and/or from fret to fret in order to "finger" different notes.

Would you give me an example in one of their songs what chord and lead/melody playing is so I can get an idea what it is?

[Lorraine]

Better yet, if you direct me to one of their concert DVDs so I can get a visual.

[Lorraine]

I'm watching GUP now. Would that be one of the reasons why Neil wears headphones when he does The Weapon? To help with his concentration?

[JARG]

Here's a guitar question, and if this doesn't prove my complete and absolute stupidity of all things musical, nothing does. Get ready for this one....

 

What is on the arm of the guitar and what is on the main part? What is each hand doing? Are they both notes, or is one the notes and the other sharps/majors?

 

Thank you for your patience with me.

 

A typical guitar has 4 parts: the headstock (where the tuning pegs are), the neck (the long part) and the body. The 4th part is the fretboard which is inlaid into the neck and contains the frets, which are the metal lines that segment the fretboard. Most guitars have either 22 or 24 frets.

 

If you're a right handed guitarist, your right hand's main job is to strum/pick the strings to get them vibrating and your left hand's main job is to press down on the strings behind the desired frets to sound the notes. If you're playing chords, your left-hand fingers generally don't move much until it's time to change to a new chord, but if you're playing leads/melodies, your fingers move from string to string and/or from fret to fret in order to "finger" different notes.

Would you give me an example in one of their songs what chord and lead/melody playing is so I can get an idea what it is?

 

There are tons of examples!

 

Think of the guitar part during the first verse of AFtK ("when they turn the pages of history, when these days have past long ago). Alex is basically playing 4 chords there. He plays an A minor during "turn the pages of", he changes to an F major on the word "history" and stays with that chord until he changes to a G major on the word "day" and then changes to an E major on the "go" part of the word "ago". Apart from changing chords, his left hand is not moving much (it does move in very subtle ways, and we can talk about why if you want to). The guitar solo, by contrast, has no chords and no strumming. It starts out with sporadic stabs of notes and phrases and then he takes you over the cliff with that crazy, sloppy, wonderful run that he does where he starts out fairly low and shoots you with a flurry of notes. If you to watch his right hand during the first part of the solo, you'd think "he's not doing much there", but if you were to watch during the big run, you'd see it going pretty crazy. He's picking the strings very fast (faster than his left hand can keep up with). His left hand is moving fast on that run, too.

[JARG]

I'm watching GUP now. Would that be one of the reasons why Neil wears headphones when he does The Weapon? To help with his concentration?

 

The Weapon has a synth that's playing a repeating pattern throughout most of the song, but no human is actually playing it. The synth is playing a pattern of notes by itself, called a sequence. When synths do that, we call them "sequencers". The synth can't adjust its internal tempo...you set it to play at a specific tempo and it does just that...but it can't speed up or slow down to match the tempo that Neil is playing at. Neil has to match his tempo to the sequencer's. The way he does that is to listen to a "click track" in his headphones which plays clicks at the same tempo that the synth is playing to. That way he keeps his band mates (and himself) in time with the sequencer. If he didn't, a train wreck would ensue.

[Lorraine]

I don't think I have any dvds with AFTK on it but I did listen to the song.

 

Thanks, JARG.

[Lorraine]

I'm watching GUP now. Would that be one of the reasons why Neil wears headphones when he does The Weapon? To help with his concentration?

 

The Weapon has a synth that's playing a repeating pattern throughout most of the song, but no human is actually playing it. The synth is playing a pattern of notes by itself, called a sequence. When synths do that, we call them "sequencers". The synth can't adjust its internal tempo...you set it to play at a specific tempo and it does just that...but it can't speed up or slow down to match the tempo that Neil is playing at. Neil has to match his tempo to the sequencer's. The way he does that is to listen to a "click track" in his headphones which plays clicks at the same tempo that the synth is playing to. That way he keeps his band mates (and himself) in time with the sequencer. If he didn't, a train wreck would ensue.

What keeps the tempo? And how can he manage to do that and keep tossing his stick in the air? What if he dropped it? Wouldn't that mess everything up? Or doesn't someone like him ever think of stuff like that happening?

Edited October 22, 2014 by Lorraine

[JARG]

I'm watching GUP now. Would that be one of the reasons why Neil wears headphones when he does The Weapon? To help with his concentration?

 

The Weapon has a synth that's playing a repeating pattern throughout most of the song, but no human is actually playing it. The synth is playing a pattern of notes by itself, called a sequence. When synths do that, we call them "sequencers". The synth can't adjust its internal tempo...you set it to play at a specific tempo and it does just that...but it can't speed up or slow down to match the tempo that Neil is playing at. Neil has to match his tempo to the sequencer's. The way he does that is to listen to a "click track" in his headphones which plays clicks at the same tempo that the synth is playing to. That way he keeps his band mates (and himself) in time with the sequencer. If he didn't, a train wreck would ensue.

What keeps the tempo? And how can he manage to do that and keep tossing his stick in the air? What if he dropped it? Wouldn't that mess everything up? Or doesn't someone like him ever think of stuff like that happening?

 

If he drops a stick, there might be a "hole" in the sound coming from the drum kit, but he's still got the click track playing in his headphones so that he can at least get back in time when he recovers. Whether or not he remembers where he was in the song when he dropped the stick is a different question, but I've played with plenty of drummers who've dropped or broken sticks and they've never been so flustered that they forgot where they were supposed to be in the song.

Edited October 22, 2014 by JARG

[JARG]

I don't think I have any dvds with AFTK on it but I did listen to the song.

 

Thanks, JARG.

 

The Trees is another one where Alex plays chords during the verses, where the chords change at each measure. It's a little busier than AFtK, but you should be able to get the gist.

[Lorraine]

Thanks, JARG. I sincerely appreciate the tutorial and the time you are taking to answer me. I am saving your posts on a Notepad so I can refer to them in the future and don't have to ask again. :)

[JARG]

Thanks, JARG. I sincerely appreciate the tutorial and the time you are taking to answer me. I am saving your posts on a Notepad so I can refer to them in the future and don't have to ask again. :)

 

I like that you're curious about what goes on "behind the curtain" and brave enough to ask questions.

[Lorraine]

Thanks, JARG. I sincerely appreciate the tutorial and the time you are taking to answer me. I am saving your posts on a Notepad so I can refer to them in the future and don't have to ask again. :)

 

I like that you're curious about what goes on "behind the curtain" and brave enough to ask questions.

It is the frustrated "artist" inside of me that never got the chance. I shouldn't say never got the chance. What I should say is that I let it all pass me by. As for brave enough to ask the questions, no sense in pretending I know something I haven't the foggiest idea about. When I watch Rush dvds, I am always watching their hands on their guitars. Hard to see what Neil is doing, so I can't really watch him. It's mostly Alex really. I find it fascinating to watch them and I wanted to know what they are doing so that I can understand better.

 

What I'd really like to watch Rush do is when they create the music to go with the lyrics. That must be something.

[JARG]

What I'd really like to watch Rush do is when they create the music to go with the lyrics. That must be something.

 

I think it's pretty much like this

http://thejunoesque.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cinderella_stepsister.jpg

[Moonlit Dreamer]

The use of a hi-hat in a drum kit?

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4pmUNQE7llI/R_UDkiP_hrI/AAAAAAAABBI/b9pt1qHC4lQ/s400/sr-drummer.jpg

 

I'm not sure what kind of a difference that would make...

 

Haha, just kidding. :)

[upstateNYfan]

The Weapon?

 

The Speed of Love?

 

I have to think about this...

 

That's crazy! I just mentioned "The Weapon" on another thread!!

 

"La Villa" is a good one too!!

 

But again, Stewart Copeland is the Hi-Hat Master!!!!!!

The Weapon?

 

The Speed of Love?

 

I have to think about this...

 

That's crazy! I just mentioned "The Weapon" on another thread!!

 

"La Villa" is a good one too!!

 

But again, Stewart Copeland is the Hi-Hat Master!!!!!!

 

Copeland is obvivously tight and has decent chops, but he's nowhere close to Neil. Yes, he has some solo-like work on the hi-hat, but his playing seems often frenetic and not necessariy appropriate for the song. Just my 2 cents...

[toymaker]

Lorraine, the only thing I'd add to the drumming stuff is that, at least for a beginner, there's a lot of counting that goes on - and it's not that different from dancing, in some ways. Drum instructors will "speak" a basic rhythm in this way:

 

One - and - two - and - . . . .

 

Now imagine the bass drum "thump" as falling on the "one" and the "snare" sound (the other predominant sound that makes up most rock beats) as falling on the "two"; the hi-hat accents fall on all of the syllables. That's a really basic beat.

 

Another way you might write it out is

 

h h h h h h h h . . .

b s b s . . .

 

Good drummers have a "feel" for the rhythm; you'll often see them moving their body in time. This sense of groove prevents them from being too "mechanical" like a clock.

 

The Weapon's main drum patterns is on the bass drum (that constant "thump, thump, thump") with a lot of "closed" and "open" hi-hat - which are almost impossible to represent as words. The tightly closed hi-hat is a sort of "tick" sound; the open hi-hat is sort of a . . . tssss?

 

There's also a kind of "slushy" sound that drummers will use, when the two hi-hat cymbals are loose - not totally open, not totally closed. Listen to Analog Kid - that song starts with Neil playing the "ride" cymbal, which creates a more ringing sound, but at 10 seconds in, after a couple of cymbal hits, he switches to that slushy hi-hat sound.

[Lorraine]

Good drummers have a "feel" for the rhythm; you'll often see them moving their body in time. This sense of groove prevents them from being too "mechanical" like a clock.

 

I don't think I have ever noticed Neil doing that, but I have noticed Geddy who has an incredible sense of beat. He seems to not be able to help himself. Even when he's not moving, he is dah-dah-dah'ing along with the music. This last thing is prominent on a lot of bootlegs that I have.

 

Who decides and how is it decided what the particular beat and/or rhythm will be for a song?