What decade does Permanent Waves really belong in?

[Lorraine]

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound. It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

 

i think it is half and half. Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album. Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart. It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

 

Eh. What a way to quickly knock Permanent Waves out of the #1 spot.....Closer to the Heart? No thanks...

 

I don't like the song either, but Jacob's Ladder is out of place on Permanent Waves. It sounds more like it belongs on AFTK.

 

Does anyone here know when that song was written? It might have been written around the mid-seventies.

[Narps]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

 

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

 

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

 

When in 1979 was it recorded?

I just know the Pre tour or whatever you call it that I saw was in August of 79. They only played TSOR and Freewill...

 

So the entire album was probably recorded by then and finished?

I don't know but somehow I doubt it....

[LedRush]

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/84381-do-you-think-of-permanent-waves-as-a-70s-album-or-an-80s-album/page__hl__%20permanent%20%20waves

[savagegrace26]

Savage, just admit Eagle is right and be done with it.

 

Release date determines when something is eligible for awards...like the Academy Awards..

 

Permanent Waves could only win an Oscar for the year it was officially released....which was 1980..

 

(I'm not bringing up the stupid Grammy's)

Writing, production, recording, mixing, mastering, art direction, marketing, etc are all parts of the creation of a work like this, especially with a big band like this.

 

The release itself is part of the creation process. It's a national or bigger release.

 

The artist/producers choose when to release something.

 

The marketing is all part of the creative process. The "creation" of the work does not end until it is released.

 

Rush wanted to release it in 1980 and so they did therefore making it an official 1980 release.

 

I'm going to respect their release method.

 

Permanent Waves is a 1980 album.

[LedRush]

Obviously 70s. Written, recorded, produced, packaged and shipped in the 70s.

[savagegrace26]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

 

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

 

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

 

Eh, you have a good response there... :/

 

I don't know.

 

Movies and music are different to me. It's dependent on when they are publicly released because they are being produced mainly for public consumption.

 

Paintings are more personal...

 

Eh. You have a good point :)

 

The real question is when is the work conisdered "finished"? Usually it's not until actual release.

 

I really like your response by the way :) :) :)

 

Thanks. :-) I guess after being in the business for a lot of years I am aware of what belongs to the artist and what belongs to the public. Rushs music for example is their own property even though their distribution rights have been given to the record companies. So when they created it would have to be when it became a product. It was influenced by what came before, which would make it a product of the 70s. The 80s hadn't happened yet, so it can't be a product of that decade.

:goodone: Deep....

 

Read my post above. For a public artist the release date and marketing is just as much a creative factor as the writing and recording. They are releasing a "product". Sorry, I disagree with you.

[toymaker]

It is a "Janus-faced" album.

[savagegrace26]

Marketing and distribution is just as important in this process as everything else. It was released in 1980.

[Lorraine]

We know Neil considers Permanent Waves the start of Rush's "adulthood", but has either Geddy or Neil ever mentioned anything?

[savagegrace26]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

[LedRush]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

And everyone and their mother would recognize that it's a 1969 movie that was merely released in 1989.

[LedRush]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

And everyone and their mother would recognize that it's a 1969 movie that was merely released in 1989.

 

I mean, yes, we get it. It was released on 1-1-80. The question is what decade does it really belong to, not when was the official release date. All this talk of oscars and grammy's and imbd is just stupid.

[bathory]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

[bathory]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

dear lord

 

we need this guy in the SOCN

[Narps]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

Disagree but like your argument anyway. It sure felt like the 70's still when I grabbed it from the bin on Jan 1. I should have checked the calender closer. A feeling just like you said... :)

[Narps]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

dear lord

 

we need this guy in the SOCN

He can replace my departure from there....

[savagegrace26]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

And everyone and their mother would recognize that it's a 1969 movie that was merely released in 1989.

 

I mean, yes, we get it. It was released on 1-1-80. The question is what decade does it really belong to, not when was the official release date. All this talk of oscars and grammy's and imbd is just stupid.

 

No, there needs to be a definable agreeable standard. The official release date works for material that is intended to be released to the general public.

[Ancient Ways]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

[savagegrace26]

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

 

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

 

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

 

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.

 

dear lord

 

we need this guy in the SOCN

He can replace my departure from there....

 

No, I would be banned quickly. You don't want me discussing politics or religion....especially religion.....

[jamie]

i feel like it's a mix of both. it has a hint of 70's in it but you can really tell that their music was changing and starting to go into a new era.

[savagegrace26]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

Edited October 1, 2014 by savagegrace26

[Lorraine]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

 

Good???

 

It is better than good.

 

It is the best album they ever did.

 

;) ;) :lol: :cool:

[Lorraine]

Is this thread my best ever or what?

 

:lol: :lol:

[savagegrace26]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

 

Good???

 

It is better than good.

 

It is the best album they ever did.

 

;) ;) :lol: :cool:

 

So, it's their best album of the 70's AND 80's....

 

and 90's and 00's and 10's

 

I can agree with this... :)

[bathory]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

Disagree but like your argument anyway. It sure felt like the 70's still when I grabbed it from the bin on Jan 1. I should have checked the calender closer. A feeling just like you said... :)

 

yeah, I'd imagine jan 1 1980 still felt like the 70s haha. I just think that TSOR was their way of saying out with the old (sorta) and in with the new! I'm not friends with the guys in the band or anything, but I took it as a statement and felt like the jan 1 release date was intentional. sorta like, this is rush for the 1980s and while all the bands we tour with fade into obscurity or turn into nostalgia acts, that aint gonna f*ckin happen to us! if that makes sense.

 

now we can debate whether or not presto's 80s or 90s! it was pretty close to 1990...I think we could get 9 or 10 pages out of that topic