Geddy's Soul Patch Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album. What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever. Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands. By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line? If Rush wanted to release PeW in 1979 they could have, that's not true for MP, it wasn't finished until '81. IMO that's the distinction Edited October 2, 2014 by Geddy's Soul Patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album. What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever. Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands. By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line? If Rush wanted to release PeW in 1979 they could have, that's not true for MP, it wasn't finished until '81. IMO that's the distinction How do you know if they could have? There could have been logistcal problems that prevented that. Regardless, they didn't release it in 1979 for whatever reason. When they "could have" released it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. It's a complete hypothetical. It was officially released on January 1st, 1980 so it is a 1980 album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period. Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc. Recording is only one part of the process. Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies Everything except for people listening to it....that's a pretty astronomical factor right there... If an album exists and no one hears it....then does it exist? No one listened to the record in the 70's.... Right if people heard it in release year of 1980......sorry it's to me an 80's album. Mick What about the people who heard it earlier than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... So it's a 90s album for me? You've gone from stupid to outrageous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period. Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc. Recording is only one part of the process. Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies Everything except for people listening to it....that's a pretty astronomical factor right there... If an album exists and no one hears it....then does it exist? No one listened to the record in the 70's.... Right if people heard it in release year of 1980......sorry it's to me an 80's album. Mick What about the people who heard it earlier than that? So what? Of course some people heard it. This has already been covered. It wasn't officially available to the general public until January 1st, 1980 and there is more to an album than just hearing it. It includes the entire package. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album. What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever. Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands. By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line? So 3 things with different times dictate everything? Your black and white world has become unworkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Zzzzzzzz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... So it's a 90s album for me? You've gone from stupid to outrageous. Are you a f*cking idiot? You're completely missing my point. You (and everyone) had the option to listen to in the 80's (well if you/they were alive in the 80s of course). You or most human beings didn't have an option of listening to it the 70's because it wasn't released/available... I in no way implied what you are saying. Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefox4000 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ok.......people people........here's a better brain teaser to ponder......What sane person actually cares? lol. Mick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album. What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever. Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands. By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line? So 3 things with different times dictate everything? Your black and white world has become unworkable. I repeated the same general things in several different ways to make it simple for you to understand. Repetition does help the feeble-minded comprehend things. This has been scientifically proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Ok.......people people........here's a better brain teaser to ponder......What sane person actually cares? lol. Mick Who the hell wants to be sane? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddy's Soul Patch Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period. Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc. Recording is only one part of the process. Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies Everything except for people listening to it....that's a pretty astronomical factor right there... If an album exists and no one hears it....then does it exist? No one listened to the record in the 70's.... Right if people heard it in release year of 1980......sorry it's to me an 80's album. Mick What about the people who heard it earlier than that? So what? Of course some people heard it. This has already been covered. It wasn't officially available to the general public until January 1st, 1980 and there is more to an album than just hearing it. It includes the entire package. The entire package was completely ready to be released before Jan 1. People both heard and looked at PeW before the 80s. The thread isn't asking when Permanent Waves was available for everyone Edited October 2, 2014 by Geddy's Soul Patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The question is what decade the album really belongs to. Savage has decided to blindly follow dates and pick black and white calendar definitions. Of course, this is stupid for many reasons. If we all used the calendar determination, there would be no need for the question. What would be the point? Obviously many people (and by the small sample size in the previous post on this topic, most people) don't look at the world in black and whites, completely incapable of using their brains to make their own determination. This is good. Most people are trying to see whether the music itself is more like the music that dominated the 70s, or the music that dominated the 80s. Some think that because there was a break from Hemispheres, PeW was an 80s album. I understand the thinking, but strongly disagree. PeW is album oriented rock, driven largely by guitar riffs, containing extended tracks with some shorter pieces, and with limited use of synths. While there is clearly a progression, the formula of the band was largely in tact. Moving Pictures is much more of an album which straddles the decades in my mind. The synths are out in full force, Vital Signs sounds like a song from Signals, and The Camera Eye is the baby of 70s guitar epics and the synths and lyrics from the 80s. When you actually decide to use your brain to analyze the situation, the world becomes much more interesting than a calendar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's... The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now... How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please... That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album. What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever. Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands. By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line? So 3 things with different times dictate everything? Your black and white world has become unworkable. I repeated the same general things in several different ways to make it simple for you to understand. Repetition does help the feeble-minded comprehend things. This has been scientifically proven. Then you should repeat the same thing, and not different things. Much of the public heard songs from the album in the 70s, and a much larger percent didn't hear it until the 90s or later. As time goes on, more of the public will have heard it later than that. For someone who love the precision of blindly following manufactured rules, you sure don't use your language with precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 OK, I'm actually dumber for having participated in this non-discussion. I'm out until/unless something that actually requires a brain is forwarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) The question is what decade the album really belongs to. Savage has decided to blindly follow dates and pick black and white calendar definitions. Of course, this is stupid for many reasons. If we all used the calendar determination, there would be no need for the question. What would be the point? Obviously many people (and by the small sample size in the previous post on this topic, most people) don't look at the world in black and whites, completely incapable of using their brains to make their own determination. This is good. Most people are trying to see whether the music itself is more like the music that dominated the 70s, or the music that dominated the 80s. Some think that because there was a break from Hemispheres, PeW was an 80s album. I understand the thinking, but strongly disagree. PeW is album oriented rock, driven largely by guitar riffs, containing extended tracks with some shorter pieces, and with limited use of synths. While there is clearly a progression, the formula of the band was largely in tact. Moving Pictures is much more of an album which straddles the decades in my mind. The synths are out in full force, Vital Signs sounds like a song from Signals, and The Camera Eye is the baby of 70s guitar epics and the synths and lyrics from the 80s. When you actually decide to use your brain to analyze the situation, the world becomes much more interesting than a calendar. There is no sudden divide between 1970s or 1980s styles of music. That is black oand white thinking. There is no fine line. Permanent Waves has elements of several styles from before and what the styles would become. Would this discussion even be happening if Permanent Waves was released in December 1979 or March or April 1980? Most likely not. This thread is specifically about PW because of it's release date. Perhaps you need to think for yourself. Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The question is specifically what decade does permanent waves really belong in? Not which decades style of music it most stylistically relates to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalsBandGuy Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I gave up on the lunacy of this thread on page 3, and glanced at the last page. For me, the answer is simple. It's a '70s album. If I hang out in my little studio and sweat out a song on Monday, but nobody hears it until Tuesday........it's still a Monday song. That's when the sweat and emotion went into. Besides, there are lots of time zones in the world, and a bunch of those were still in the 70s when the album was released officially at midnight. Someone else can do the math. I'm tired. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The musical landscape didn't just drastically change from 1979 to 1980. It was a progression and Permanent Waves was part of that progression. Saying it belongs to one decade or the other based on style is pretty irrelevant and this arbitrary imaginary "line" only exists because of calendar dates. Of which Permanent Waves didn't enter the musical landscape and have the potential to influence anything until January 1, 1980. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I place it on the Event Horizon. Simply timeless. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snyder80 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Definitely 80s. It doesn't even feel like a 70s record. The reggae break in TSOR and Entre Nous make it quite obvious that a new decade and a new era had begun. Along with Freewill packing as much musical explosiveness and raw energy into five minutes as 2112 and Hemispheres did in twenty-six and change. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I place it on the Event Horizon. Simply timeless. This is the best classification I've read yet. Trying to pigeonhole it into one decade or the other is pointless. It is it's own "decade" the 7980's and was meant to be that way. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The musical landscape didn't just drastically change from 1979 to 1980. It was a progression and Permanent Waves was part of that progression. Saying it belongs to one decade or the other based on style is pretty irrelevant and this arbitrary imaginary "line" only exists because of calendar dates. Of which Permanent Waves didn't enter the musical landscape and have the potential to influence anything until January 1, 1980. You're looking at it from the view of a consumer, not a creator. The album was created in the 70's so it can't be anything but a 70's album, no matter what came afterwards. The way you talk it sounds like you think the album didn't exist until the actual date it was released to the public. There was a lot that went into creating it. It didn't just pop into your music store on that day in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) The musical landscape didn't just drastically change from 1979 to 1980. It was a progression and Permanent Waves was part of that progression. Saying it belongs to one decade or the other based on style is pretty irrelevant and this arbitrary imaginary "line" only exists because of calendar dates. Of which Permanent Waves didn't enter the musical landscape and have the potential to influence anything until January 1, 1980. You're looking at it from the view of a consumer, not a creator. The album was created in the 70's so it can't be anything but a 70's album, no matter what came afterwards. The way you talk it sounds like you think the album didn't exist until the actual date it was released to the public. There was a lot that went into creating it. It didn't just pop into your music store on that day in January. I know this and I've stated it several times in thus thread and Ive specified how the marketing is a big part of the process of the entire release process. I work in the film industry. I'm well aware of the steps and procedures that are necessary to release something to the public. And the "official release" of any entertainment product is pretty much the defining moment for the creator and the consumer. Do you not think that an initial public screening of a film would be a defining moment for the creators as releasing something to the public is pretty much the climax of months or even years of hard work and dedication. Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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