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#161 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 01:51 PM

View PostPrincipled Man, on 24 September 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 23 September 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

You only THINK you're free.

I think.
I think I am.  
Therefore, I am!  I think....

Of course you are my bright little star!
I've miles and miles of files
Pretty files of your forefather's fruit
And now to suit

Our Great computer
You're magnetic ink.


I'm more than that

I know I am.
At least, I think I must be.

There you go, man!

Keep as cool as you can.
Face piles of trials with smiles
It riles them to believe
That you perceive
The web they weave
And keep on thinking free.


It's only a couple of days ago I heard On A Treshold Of A Dream on vinyl. I scored an original copy from 69 with a mint lyric sheet. It's a funny feeling sitting with something that old while listening to the sound, and wondering about the people who have held it before me :)

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#162 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 01:56 PM

View PostSnyder80, on 06 October 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

The whole wait til you're a certain age argument baffles me.  Age is no indication of maturity.  My wife and I had our first at 23 and most people we know consider us pretty good parents.  On the other hand I work with a guy who is 42 and has a three year old who can't put together a complete sentence and still wears diapers and has never even been put near a toilet to begin potty training.  His clothing is all purchased from consignment stores while his father sports $150 sneakers and $2000 televisions.  Now does that really indicate that age equals maturity?

I agree except the part of not forming a complete sentence at the age of three. I didn't start talking until I hit that age and I turned out just fine :smash:

#163 Karena

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

I am childfree.  I grew up knowing childfree people and my partner's family also has childfree members.  So I grew up not thinking anything of it and it has never been an issue.  It has nothing to do with dysfunction or not thinking I'd be good at it.  I am not selfish and give up a lot of my time and resources for others so it isn't that.  I just never wanted kids, like many other people I know.  I don't really get why it's an issue at all.?

#164 Narps

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 04:02 PM

It isn't in my view.....

#165 toymaker

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:49 PM

Interesting discussion.  I have a 14-year-old and a 9-year-old (almost 10).  I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to figure out how to relate to or talk to them as well.  I never did the baby-talk thing - I almost always just talk to them like they're adults, and I am often surprised by the depth of their understanding and insights.  I just wish I had more time for them, or that our free time coincided more.

It also helps that I still love Lego.

#166 Narps

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:53 PM

View Posttoymaker, on 10 October 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

Interesting discussion.  I have a 14-year-old and a 9-year-old (almost 10).  I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to figure out how to relate to or talk to them as well.  I never did the baby-talk thing - I almost always just talk to them like they're adults, and I am often surprised by the depth of their understanding and insights.  I just wish I had more time for them, or that our free time coincided more.

It also helps that I still love Lego.
I worked to much when my kids were young but damn they turned out great anyway.... :D

#167 Boots

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:22 PM

Being child free was not a conscious decision by me.  That's just the way things turned out. But I can imagine getting married and being a PT stepmom.  Some men are worth doing that for.  Some aren't.  The things we do for love.

#168 x1yyz

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:55 PM

View PostBoots, on 05 December 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

But I can imagine getting married and being a PT stepmom.  Some men are worth doing that for.  

Yup.  There was one I would have done that for.

#169 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 05:23 PM

By time I'm warming up to the thought of having kids. My problem is that I'm a low energy type of person, and I don't think I'd be able to keep up. The most important part of this equation is having a relationship with someone I'd like to spend the rest of my life with. Of course I can't have such certainties in life, but I want that potential child to be a labor of love.

Life is full of uncertainties and all I want is a life of love. Child or no child. That's not too much to ask for, is it? :)

#170 x1yyz

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 06:46 PM

View PostThe Analog Grownup, on 05 December 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Life is full of uncertainties and all I want is a life of love. ... That's not too much to ask for, is it? :)

That's all I want as well.  And I'm starting to think it is too much to ask for.

#171 Verena

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:47 PM

When I was 15, wanted to get married at 27 and have kids two years later. Although, between my 19-22 years, I've changed my mind. Decided to live for what I love most (Art, travelling, friends and others).

During last years I had to face some stubborn people (including family) against my personal choice, trying to convince me from the opposite, in various ways. Although I never changed my mind and felt I chose the best for me.

#172 Verena

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:50 PM

View Postx1yyz, on 05 December 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

View PostThe Analog Grownup, on 05 December 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

Life is full of uncertainties and all I want is a life of love. ... That's not too much to ask for, is it? :)

That's all I want as well.  And I'm starting to think it is too much to ask for.
I think it's fair what both ask. I hope it comes to you.

Edited by rhyv, 05 December 2015 - 07:51 PM.


#173 satchmothesnowdog

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:53 PM

At 48 I have come to realize not having kids was the biggest failing of my life and it's a really shitty place to be. But I never had a relationship with anyone who I felt would actually be a good mother, or life companion, for that matter.

#174 Xanadu

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 12:53 AM

View PostYYZumbi, on 14 August 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

View Postedhunter, on 14 August 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostYYZumbi, on 14 August 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

View Postedhunter, on 14 August 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

View PostYYZumbi, on 14 August 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

View Postedhunter, on 14 August 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

The need for therapy is strong in this thread.

What you mean by that?

Regardless of peoples' choices to have or not to have kids, a lot of issues are being brought out by various posters. Whether it's deep seeded regret, anger, remorse etc.  If this were an in-person chat session a psychologist would run out of business cards.

haha allright, well I got my reasons why I hate kids..

Is it the kids you hate, or is it lousy parenting that bugs you more?

Well its the screaming, and fighting and the way they are running around that I hate. Why can they not just sit down and shut up?

Well you were a kid once...why couldn't you? :huh:

#175 Garden Dancer

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 05:57 AM

View Postx1yyz, on 12 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:


People like that really need to give their kids up for adoption.  It's just not fair to the kids to grow up in a world of hate.

Speaking as someone who was adopted (at age 2 months; I was born to an unwed mother who obviously didn't want me) I am thrilled my biological parents gave me up so I could be raised by parents who actually wanted me.

I do wonder if the desire to not have children is hereditary.  If so, maybe I got it from my mother.  Certainly this is a gene which would quickly die out.

I always knew I wasn't "mommy" material.  And sweetie never really has the "daddy" drive, either.
Buuuut... things happen, and one finds themselves with a decision to make.

For us, it was truly a surprise.  I actually had no idea that I was pregnant until I was in labor.  (No missed period, no movement in my belly, no "baby bump"...  honestly, there was nothing to tell me, or sweetie...)
Had we known?  I might have chosen to abort.  I don't know for sure, though.
As it was, we gave our baby up for adoption.
We read profiles of hopeful couples, we spoke with a counselor there at the hospital, and we both were happy with that decision.  We held him, we named him, and I fell into those deep, indigo eyes...  Loved that child on first sight.  But even with the flood of hormones and endorphins and all, I knew he wasn't "mine".  I still didn't feel the "mommy" thing kicking in, and I knew that I never really would.  Adoption was the best thing I ever decided.

But I always wondered, what are the thoughts of the child?  What are your feelings about being adopted?  Do you ever resent your mom for getting pregnant and giving you up?  Do you ever wonder about her?  Do you Love her/hate her/feel nothing for her?  I always wonder...
I know every child feels different, and every situation is unique, and I don't expect you to be the spokes-person for every adoptee, but...  what was your experience?

Sorry if I'm pulling the thread off-topic, but...  I've always wondered.

#176 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 07:28 AM

View PostGarden Dancer, on 06 December 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

View Postx1yyz, on 12 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:


People like that really need to give their kids up for adoption.  It's just not fair to the kids to grow up in a world of hate.

Speaking as someone who was adopted (at age 2 months; I was born to an unwed mother who obviously didn't want me) I am thrilled my biological parents gave me up so I could be raised by parents who actually wanted me.

I do wonder if the desire to not have children is hereditary.  If so, maybe I got it from my mother.  Certainly this is a gene which would quickly die out.

I always knew I wasn't "mommy" material.  And sweetie never really has the "daddy" drive, either.
Buuuut... things happen, and one finds themselves with a decision to make.

For us, it was truly a surprise.  I actually had no idea that I was pregnant until I was in labor.  (No missed period, no movement in my belly, no "baby bump"...  honestly, there was nothing to tell me, or sweetie...)
Had we known?  I might have chosen to abort.  I don't know for sure, though.
As it was, we gave our baby up for adoption.
We read profiles of hopeful couples, we spoke with a counselor there at the hospital, and we both were happy with that decision.  We held him, we named him, and I fell into those deep, indigo eyes...  Loved that child on first sight.  But even with the flood of hormones and endorphins and all, I knew he wasn't "mine".  I still didn't feel the "mommy" thing kicking in, and I knew that I never really would.  Adoption was the best thing I ever decided.

But I always wondered, what are the thoughts of the child?  What are your feelings about being adopted?  Do you ever resent your mom for getting pregnant and giving you up?  Do you ever wonder about her?  Do you Love her/hate her/feel nothing for her?  I always wonder...
I know every child feels different, and every situation is unique, and I don't expect you to be the spokes-person for every adoptee, but...  what was your experience?

Sorry if I'm pulling the thread off-topic, but...  I've always wondered.

I don't think you're pulling this thread off-topic as it raises an interesting point. Somewhere that couple and child are hopefully living a happy life. You had a child you didn't want (it looks so harsh when written as text), but you gave someone who might not have had the oppertunity themselves the chance to experience that.

I really don't know how that feels, both being the one giving up a child for an adoption, those who adopt or the child being adopted. Did you do it anomynous or will the child know who was its biological parents?

#177 Garden Dancer

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 09:23 AM

View PostThe Analog Grownup, on 06 December 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

View PostGarden Dancer, on 06 December 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

View Postx1yyz, on 12 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

People like that really need to give their kids up for adoption.  It's just not fair to the kids to grow up in a world of hate.

Speaking as someone who was adopted (at age 2 months; I was born to an unwed mother who obviously didn't want me) I am thrilled my biological parents gave me up so I could be raised by parents who actually wanted me.

I do wonder if the desire to not have children is hereditary.  If so, maybe I got it from my mother.  Certainly this is a gene which would quickly die out.

I always knew I wasn't "mommy" material.  And sweetie never really has the "daddy" drive, either.
Buuuut... things happen, and one finds themselves with a decision to make.

For us, it was truly a surprise.  I actually had no idea that I was pregnant until I was in labor.  (No missed period, no movement in my belly, no "baby bump"...  honestly, there was nothing to tell me, or sweetie...)
Had we known?  I might have chosen to abort.  I don't know for sure, though.
As it was, we gave our baby up for adoption.
We read profiles of hopeful couples, we spoke with a counselor there at the hospital, and we both were happy with that decision.  We held him, we named him, and I fell into those deep, indigo eyes...  Loved that child on first sight.  But even with the flood of hormones and endorphins and all, I knew he wasn't "mine".  I still didn't feel the "mommy" thing kicking in, and I knew that I never really would.  Adoption was the best thing I ever decided.

But I always wondered, what are the thoughts of the child?  What are your feelings about being adopted?  Do you ever resent your mom for getting pregnant and giving you up?  Do you ever wonder about her?  Do you Love her/hate her/feel nothing for her?  I always wonder...
I know every child feels different, and every situation is unique, and I don't expect you to be the spokes-person for every adoptee, but...  what was your experience?

Sorry if I'm pulling the thread off-topic, but...  I've always wondered.

I don't think you're pulling this thread off-topic as it raises an interesting point. Somewhere that couple and child are hopefully living a happy life. You had a child you didn't want (it looks so harsh when written as text), but you gave someone who might not have had the oppertunity themselves the chance to experience that.

I really don't know how that feels, both being the one giving up a child for an adoption, those who adopt or the child being adopted. Did you do it anomynous or will the child know who was its biological parents?

We were given profiles of a few couples, and we chose the couple we liked/resonated with best.  We told the counselor that, if he wanted to meet us, we didn't mind being found.
The way it worked with that place was, at 18 yrs, with his adoptive parent's blessing, or at 21 if they didn't approve.  (he's like, 20, now.  I wonder if we'll get a call/visit?  OMG...  I hope he doesn't hate us...)
We got pictures and progress reports for a little while, and he looked very happy.

For me, giving my son to another couple was the greatest way I could love him.  I simply don't have the "mommy" thing.  Even holding him in my arms.
I loved him, I thought he was the most amazing thing in the world.  He was a beautiful little sweetie, and I still remember looking into those indigo eyes and seeing the entire universe there.
But I also knew that...  I just wasn't the "mommy"  he'd need me to be.  I have the love, but I'm not the nurturing kind.  And I know that about myself.

I just ...  I was raised in a loving home.  Mom is just amazing and strong and wonderful, my dad was more than I realized...  I have some lovely memories.  And part of me wishes I could do that.  Be the "mommy".  And I wonder, I do really wonder...  as much as his adoptive parents love him, does he ever wonder about us?  About me?  Does he ever think that we hated him, didn't want him?  That we just threw him aside?  Coz that's not how it was.
We loved him, still do.  We loved him enough to give him to someone who could be the nurturing, supportive, parents that he needed.

It's a complicated swirl of emotion, feeling such a deep love, yet knowing that just love wouldn't be enough.
And the worry that he might not understand.

I wonder, do I even understand it all.?.
*ugh*  So very complicated!

Edited by Garden Dancer, 06 December 2015 - 09:33 AM.


#178 Anthemic

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 10:00 AM

i'm adopted and i have never been anything but thankful that my birth mother gave me to my mom and dad. they were great parents who couldn't have any kids of their own and i never felt like anything was missing from my life just because my awesome mom who raised me wasn't the person who popped me out.

with that said now that both my parents are dead i sometimes think about trying to find my birth mother. i'm not sure though because i don't know how she would feel about it and i wouldn't want to hurt her. also it seems kind of maybe disrespectful to my mom? i don't know, it's confusing

#179 Garden Dancer

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 10:24 AM

View PostAnthemic, on 06 December 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

i'm adopted and i have never been anything but thankful that my birth mother gave me to my mom and dad. they were great parents who couldn't have any kids of their own and i never felt like anything was missing from my life just because my awesome mom who raised me wasn't the person who popped me out.

with that said now that both my parents are dead i sometimes think about trying to find my birth mother. i'm not sure though because i don't know how she would feel about it and i wouldn't want to hurt her. also it seems kind of maybe disrespectful to my mom? i don't know, it's confusing

:heart:  Aww man.   It does get confusing.  There's a lot of emotion when it comes to family.  Even more, I think, when adoption is part of the equation.

I'm so glad you had such great, loving parents.

I can't speak for all birth-parents out there, coz every experience/life is different, but if you really want to find her, I think it's worthwhile to at least try.  It will be emotional, no matter the outcome, so tread lightly.  Maybe have someone contact her on your behalf, to "test the waters", so-to-speak.  The go-between can softly introduce the idea, and she can let them know if she'd welcome a meet or not.

I don't think that searching for your birth mother would be disrespectful to your mom.  You love her, and she loved you.  There is a bond, and you know how you feel in your heart.  Wanting to know about your birth mother isn't disrespectful, it's a natural curiosity about a part of your life.
For whatever reasons, she couldn't be the mom you needed.  But she did give you, and your parents a great gift.  You got the loving family who wanted you, who loved you, who raised you.  She gave your parents a child they wanted, but could not have on their own.

Whatever you decide, I really do wish you the best.  :hug2:

#180 x1yyz

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

View PostGarden Dancer, on 06 December 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

View Postx1yyz, on 12 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

People like that really need to give their kids up for adoption.  It's just not fair to the kids to grow up in a world of hate.

Speaking as someone who was adopted (at age 2 months; I was born to an unwed mother who obviously didn't want me) I am thrilled my biological parents gave me up so I could be raised by parents who actually wanted me.

I do wonder if the desire to not have children is hereditary.  If so, maybe I got it from my mother.  Certainly this is a gene which would quickly die out.

I always knew I wasn't "mommy" material.  And sweetie never really has the "daddy" drive, either.
Buuuut... things happen, and one finds themselves with a decision to make.

For us, it was truly a surprise.  I actually had no idea that I was pregnant until I was in labor.  (No missed period, no movement in my belly, no "baby bump"...  honestly, there was nothing to tell me, or sweetie...)
Had we known?  I might have chosen to abort.  I don't know for sure, though.
As it was, we gave our baby up for adoption.
We read profiles of hopeful couples, we spoke with a counselor there at the hospital, and we both were happy with that decision.  We held him, we named him, and I fell into those deep, indigo eyes...  Loved that child on first sight.  But even with the flood of hormones and endorphins and all, I knew he wasn't "mine".  I still didn't feel the "mommy" thing kicking in, and I knew that I never really would.  Adoption was the best thing I ever decided.

But I always wondered, what are the thoughts of the child?  What are your feelings about being adopted?  Do you ever resent your mom for getting pregnant and giving you up?  Do you ever wonder about her?  Do you Love her/hate her/feel nothing for her?  I always wonder...
I know every child feels different, and every situation is unique, and I don't expect you to be the spokes-person for every adoptee, but...  what was your experience?

Sorry if I'm pulling the thread off-topic, but...  I've always wondered.

I was adopted at age two months, and I've know I was adopted for as far back as I can remember so it always seemed "normal" for me.  Not only have I never resented my birth mother for giving me up, I completely respect and appreciate that she did so.  Rather than grow up in a situation where I was very possibly not wanted (and who knows how I would have been treated) I instead grew up in a family with parents that very much loved and wanted me.  My adoptive parents are very much my parents and my biological parents are the outsiders.  Being part of an adoptive family makes you realize that blood ties mean nothing; it is the emotional ties (or lack thereof) that make (or break) a family.

I neither love nor hate my biological parents.  I am very indifferent towards them.  I have no desire whatsoever to meet them.  But I am curious about them--what did they look like, are we similar in any way, etc.?  What I wish I did know more about what their medical history.  I was born in the 60s when adoptions were completely closed, and no information was exchanged between birth and adoptive families.  I know things are different nowadays and some birth parents stay in contact with the adoptive family--that could be great, and then the child would grow up being loved by even more people, and that makes the situation even better.

In terms of your own child, know that kids adapt to things very easily.  If your kid grew up with adoptive parents then that is his normal.  There is a very high chance that he is grateful for his situation, and only thinks the best of you for the choices you made.





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