WavesandWindows Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Here's just an idea I came up with. We now live in the era of video calling technology that can produce a pretty good sound, why not try and get a group of musicians with Skype or FaceTime to connect to one call and just have a jam that way, it saves a lot of trouble trying to find someone to jam with, and this way we can pretty much jam with anyone with the program worldwide. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think that no one will be able to play together because Skype isn't immediate. Video contains large amounts of data that takes time to capture, encode, stream, decode and playback. Adding additional signals to the mix will only increase the amount of data, not to mention each persons' available bandwidth, devices. Not to mention monitoring would be a nightmare. Especially for drummers. Once someone can figure out how to transmit video instantaneously this can never happen. We're talking basic physics. Can't travel faster than the speed of light. It is a nice idea though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavesandWindows Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Was mere more than an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USB Connector Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) I think that no one will be able to play together because Skype isn't immediate. Video contains large amounts of data that takes time to capture, encode, stream, decode and playback. Adding additional signals to the mix will only increase the amount of data, not to mention each persons' available bandwidth, devices. Not to mention monitoring would be a nightmare. Especially for drummers. Once someone can figure out how to transmit video instantaneously this can never happen. We're talking basic physics. Can't travel faster than the speed of light. It is a nice idea though. All that would be needed is a really low ping. I think that, if you lived somewhere with decent internet for the year 2014 (read: not North America -- unless you're in one of few cities that has Google Fiber or similar) and you were jamming with someone in the same city, solely streaming audio it would be doable. I'm sure some sort of device designed solely to stream audio exists, so if you had one of those to stream with instead of a computer you could further reduce the latency that a general purpose computer adds. It all comes down to the ping and internet services though, and while the technology certainly exists, the major service providers are still a decade behind. Edited April 15, 2014 by USB Connector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavesandWindows Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yeah, why not rock together blind! A blind gig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Let me put it this way (even with audio only): musician A starts playing his instrument. Musician B hears the signal anywhere from a half second to two seconds or more later (generally speaking, and depending on distance, bandwidth, etc). There is no way for musician A to play with B because the signal from B will arrive back at A delayed by another factor of A to B. People complain about digital recording to monitor latency of 3 milliseconds. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyLee Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 People complain about digital recording to monitor latency of 3 milliseconds. :) Yup. What people are doing now is recording the drums, sending it to person A who lays down the bass, sending it to person B who records the guitar, and so on. Quite a few internet video collaborations on youtube done this way. Still not the same as jammin in the same room, though. IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Not quite the same thing. But yeah we all have been doing this for quite a while. I've done collaborations with a handful of guys here on different projects over the last decade. But dude's idea was about real time jamming, not recording. :) I was using that as an example of how recording with an extremely minor latency is difficult for people who can hear whereas this idea would have to be well beyond a couple milliseconds making it untenable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USB Connector Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Let me put it this way (even with audio only): musician A starts playing his instrument. Musician B hears the signal anywhere from a half second to two seconds or more later (generally speaking, and depending on distance, bandwidth, etc). There is no way for musician A to play with B because the signal from B will arrive back at A delayed by another factor of A to B. I'm sorry...what? If latency were so bad online gaming wouldn't exist. You're considered to have a "bad" connection with > 100 ms latency (although my crappy internet connection gets 100 on a good day) and this is with playing against people all over the North Eastern region of North America. Google Fiber users have documented 1 ms ping while connecting to servers in their own city (there's no accuracy at less than 1 ms ping so we have no way of knowing how much less). Edited April 17, 2014 by USB Connector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USB Connector Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) It's doable. You just need the right tech. No it won't be instant but it will be damn close. Edited April 17, 2014 by USB Connector 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I don't see how real-time recording/jamming will ever be possible. Electrons do flow incredibly fast, but distance will be a limiting factor. The farther away musician A is from musician B, the longer the lag will be between the time musician A plays his instrument and the time musician B hears it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Let me put it this way (even with audio only): musician A starts playing his instrument. Musician B hears the signal anywhere from a half second to two seconds or more later (generally speaking, and depending on distance, bandwidth, etc). There is no way for musician A to play with B because the signal from B will arrive back at A delayed by another factor of A to B. I'm sorry...what? If latency were so bad online gaming wouldn't exist. You're considered to have a "bad" connection with > 100 ms latency (although my crappy internet connection gets 100 on a good day) and this is with playing against people all over the North Eastern region of North America. Google Fiber users have documented 1 ms ping while connecting to servers in their own city (there's no accuracy at less than 1 ms ping so we have no way of knowing how much less).As a game developer myself I know how online games work. It is a completely different type of tech. No video or audio is transmitted. The game runs on each player's system and data packages are exchanged. The server facilitates the data streams and each player has an illusion of real time. The data packages are relatively small (bits of code and text like player coordinates and controller input, etc.) especially compared to video data. I've played games in the same room as others playing the same game and there are delays from system to system that are only noticeable as an observer watching without playing. Shooters are very fast. Playing something like rock band over two or more systems you see and hear the difference of playback to the point that it is unplayable in the same room. Playing split screen on one system is preferable. That's just playing Rock Band. Now imagine trying to transmit streaming music and video. Not possible. The big issue with transmitting audio and video is data compression which takes a considerable amount of time. For example: I have a Slingbox which takes a component (3 color) video and stereo audio from a tv cable box then converts it into streams for playback on whatever device. When going through my local network it takes nearly a minute for the signal to go from my Slingbox to my playback device (iPhone, iPad, laptop, etc). It's converting 1080 down to 640 or even 320 with a bad connection over the phone network. There is no tech we have right now that can perform this function instantaneously, let alone close enough for Rock & Roll, as they say. Anything that has to buffer cannot happen in real time. Video and audio, even when compressed needs to buffer in order to playback. In fact it's the compression and decompression that adds time. And if you've ever played on Xbox live with a headset you'd know that the chat audio signal is terrible as well as delayed. In fact you can hear your own voice playback like a slap delay in the headset (anywhere from 75 to 150 ms +/-). Chat audio is sent through different "channels" as the data packages with the transmission priority going to the data so that gameplay is smooth. Multiplayer games are not so much one big game but rather a bunch of individual games synchronized by the data packages (called packets). As someone who began as a tester, specializing in multiplayer I have seen games fragment after losing sync. One moment everybody is playing together then suddenly a player gets dropped yet is still playing phantoms controlled by AI unaware of being dropped. Edited April 19, 2014 by CygnusX-1Bk2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 It's doable. You just need the right tech. No it won't be instant but it will be damn close.um, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Isn't Skype kind of a delay thingy? Sort of about several seconds? Edited April 19, 2014 by Babycat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Not several seconds (unless you have low bandwidth) but long enough that you couldn't play music together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Agree with the above, this is a complete non starter unless radical new technology can come up with a fix, and I don't think we are anywhere close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steevo Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Agree with the above, this is a complete non starter unless radical new technology can come up with a fix, and I don't think we are anywhere close to that. Sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Looks like Avid is attempting something like this wth ProTools 12 through Cloud Collaboration. I'll believe it when I see it but the idea is that two or more people in distant locations can access a single ProTools session and record into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 http://www.avid.com/US/Solutions/byIndustry/protoolsearlyaccess.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 This just came out claiming low latency. Haven't tried it but it is intriguing:http://www.jamkazam.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavesandWindows Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 The fact that people are still talking abut this is awesome.... Change of tactic though, Rush cover band made of musicians from the forum. Record your parts, send em to someone's Dropbox when you're done with it, they then mix it all together and publish it to us when they're done. Is that any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The fact that people are still talking abut this is awesome.... Change of tactic though, Rush cover band made of musicians from the forum. Record your parts, send em to someone's Dropbox when you're done with it, they then mix it all together and publish it to us when they're done. Is that any better? While not a Rush cover band, I was part of a project with some forum members where we did something very similar to what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The fact that people are still talking abut this is awesome.... Change of tactic though, Rush cover band made of musicians from the forum. Record your parts, send em to someone's Dropbox when you're done with it, they then mix it all together and publish it to us when they're done. Is that any better? Like Jarg siad it's been done on here a few times. Here's some I worked on with others here:http://ourstage.com/profile/therushforummusicians/songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 And here's the two Rush songs we did: http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/90330-magus-orbis-terrae-hereditas-officially-released/#entry3339246 http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/88809-on-the-horizon/page__st__20#entry3262109 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavesandWindows Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'm not saying it hasn't happened before, but I bloody want to play some guitar with other people who not only know what Rush is, but also have a respect for their music and can play it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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