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Drummers - Time Signatures - Peart, Bonham


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Something I’ve always wondered about – during the Rush song, Limelight (after Alex’s guitar solo), the song shifts into an up tempo ¾ time. (Like a waltz… bum, chick, chick, bum, chick, chick…) But Neil continues playing it as a 4/4 beat (bass on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4).

 

In Kashmir, By Zeppelin, another song mainly in ¾ time, Bonzo plays it in 4/4 time. I always wondered why they would do this… is there any chance that either of these great drummers didn’t know about the time shift? They just played the way they felt the song???

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This guy breaks it down nicely: http://www.thefrankes.com/wp/?p=2165

 

I’ve chosen to use additive time signatures, which may look a bit odd at first. When you see something like “4+3/4″ it means that there are seven beats in the measure (4+3), but that the beats are arranged in a group of four then three (as opposed to three then four, or two then three then two, etc.) You can just as easily write this as 7/4, or as alternating measures of 4/4 and 3/4.

It’s also important to note that music can be written down in any number of ways. For example, in the verses I heard two measures or 3/4 followed by two measures of 4+2/4 (or 6/4). This could have been written as six measures of 3/4, but it would have been more awkward to count and syncopated. The music felt like it should be broken down like I have done it here.

Also, interestingly, at the end of the bridge and the start of the last chorus, the drums are playing in 4/4 while the rest of the band is playing in 3/4.

it down nicely...

 

Intro:

  • 6 measures 4/4
  • 4 measures 4+3/4

Verse:

  • 2 measures 3/4
  • 2 measures 4+2/4
  • 2 measures 3/4
  • 1 measure 4/4
  • 1 measure 4+3/4

Fill 1:

  • 1 measure 4+3/4

Repeat: Verse

Chorus:

  • 7 measures 3/4
  • 8 measures 4/4

Fill 2:

  • 3 measures 3/4
  • 2 measures 4+3/4

Repeat: Verse, Fill 1, Verse, Chorus

Fill 3:

  • 2 measures 4/4

Bridge:

  • 30 measures 3/4

Repeat: Chorus, Fill 3

Ending:

  • 12 measures 4/4

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Why would anyone write 4+3/4? That is just bad. It's either 7/4 or a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 3/4. Perpetuating bad music theory... F***ing internet...

 

As for playing different time signatures over each other, it happens all the time. The drummers play what they feel. Neil goes back to figure out what he does so he can articulate it.

 

In Tom Sawyer Neil plays two measures of 7/8 over one measure of 7/4 during the keyboard and guitar solo sections which is why it sounds and feels the way it does. As for Limelight the solo has a waltz feel but Neil plays more of a 6/4 or 12/4 pattern where the snare falls on the 3 & 6 (and 9 & 12 if written as 12/4- if one continues to use the same quarter note pulse from the verses) so the waltz becomes more of a triplet. Again he played it first. Alex and Ged's parts could be written as 30 bars of 3/4, but written "properly" it would translate better as a 6 or 12.

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So technically Limelight has a 4 over 6 during the last chorus. :) It gives the listener a sense of pushing and pulling.
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It is an incorrect use of additive meter. I understand the attempt but the execution is bad. :)

 

Additive meter is to break up rhythmic groupings of simple (2) and compound (3) meter groupings within complex 8 based (generally) time signatures. For example; 7/8 could be broken down into either 2+2+3, 2+3+2 or 3+2+2 to denote the rhythmic emphasis. The above example has little to do with this concept other than work mathematically. The math is good but the concept is misrepresented. :)

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Its called a hemiola. It's a rare thing to do in music, but I actually enjoy it. Symphonic music often uses this technique.
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I always -- always -- screwed up coming out of the solo whenever we did Limelight. I could never land on the one for some reason.
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Its called a hemiola. It's a rare thing to do in music, but I actually enjoy it. Symphonic music often uses this technique.

 

Aren't there some hemioloas in Time and Motion?

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