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Hi Ladies (and lurking Gents),

 

So earlier this year I was re-baptized into my old church. Part of the reason I was drawn back to the church is the emphasis on, and help it provides in regards to budgeting and saving. There are basically only two things we are encouraged to go into debt for, home loans, and student loans if we can't avoid them to further our education. Of course families are free to choose if that is going to be their lifestyle but I've been more and more drawn to really watching where our money goes and saving this past year. I grew up poor so of course when I was first offered a credit card to buy clothes I couldn't normally afford, I jumped on the opportunity and thus began my toxic relationship with spending above my means. Both my husband and I are trying to break ourselves of this sort of lifestyle. The sad thing is, we would have enough money to be very comfortable and practice saving if we weren't paying so much interest on things.

 

So I was wondering if any of you have heard of Provident Living and what your tricks and tips are for saving, getting out of debt, preparing meals, emergency preparedness, DIY projects, etc...

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What is Provident Living? A program?

 

I need one. My wife and I currently make plenty of money to live very comfortably but bad decisions have us in a situation where we're behind on our mortgage. :(

 

I have been thinking, there must be a way to have someone evaluate our income and expenses and make sense of it.

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Well it's somewhat new to me but it's basically putting yourself on a very tight budget, any extra money goes towards debt and savings (short and long term i.e. retirement) until you've accumulated a huge emergency fund (3-6 months worth of living expenses) and have become totally debt free and have financial freedom. Basically you live way under your means and provide better financial security for your future and your family. You have to tell yourself that if you can't afford something on your own and with cash, then forget it even exists.

 

From what I gather, people are concentrating on things like...

 

- Building food storage and emergency supplies

- Not eating out and keeping the grocery bill under $200.00 per month

- Eliminating any unnecessary expenses. Like say, you have cell phones and a land line. A family practicing provident living will nix the land line and find the most economical wireless plan to suit their needs.

- Turning off the cable and/or satellite dish. A lot of Provident Living families will buy board games at thrift stores and concentrate on free outdoor activities like local events, going to the park, enjoying nature, etc... They get really creative but I don't have kids so I haven't delved too much into that area of it.

- Not buying new. Instead a family practicing Provident Living goes to garage sales, thrift stores, consignment shops, etc...

 

Other tips I read involved checking up on your local water safety report and eliminating bottled water if you find your local water is acceptable. Buying cloth napkins instead of paper towels, making your own detergent, growing your own fruits and veggies if you have a garden (we do not), etc...

Edited by gangsterfurious
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Kenny,

 

I am posting links for the things that have helped me organize our debts and payment schedules.

 

Here are two from my church:

 

http://www.lds.org/b...df.pdf?lang=eng

 

http://www.lds.org/b...rksheet_pdf.pdf

 

I don't know if you and your wife have really sat down and figured out where the money goes but it can be quite the shocker and not in a good way but at least that way you can see what steps you need to take.

 

Also, I swear by Mint.com. It's a free program that helps you take care of all of your accounts i.e. credit cards, bank, retirement, etc... And there is a free budget calculator.

 

Dave Ramsey has a fantastic program. My cousin, who is VERY good at managing money, lent me his book by Dave and it is what got me thinking about the way we do things and how to pay off debt even sooner. But if you don't have time for all of that, Dave's "Debt Snowball" is almost the equivalent of the Debt Elimination Calculator on the first link.

 

So for example here is what I have been doing to practice Provident Living and pay off debt. We had a monthly expense of $38.00 that I was able to eliminate. That $38.00 now goes towards another loan so that we will be able to pay that off sooner. When that loan is paid off, the monthly payment of $422.00 plus that $38.00 will start rolling over into another credit card or loan that we have and so on and so on if that makes sense.

 

I have a credit union that I've been with since I was 15 and have a good relationship with them. They just allowed me to consolidate nearly all of my debt with a lower interest payment. My husband is in the process of doing the same with them and moving his debt over by consolidating as well, which will provide him with a lower interest rate and payment.

 

We are a one car household. I sold a German car that I LOVED and took the bus to work for awhile, we held onto my husband's truck until we figured that we could buy a new (used) car with what we were paying in gas. So he bought a Yamaha motorcycle that he liked (instead of a BMW Model kind of like Neil drives, which is what he REALLY wanted) and I got a Honda (I sure miss that German car). We nearly broke even on that one but still have about an extra $75.00 a month after rearranging our transportation in that manner.

 

It's been hard but not impossible to adjust. We don't go out nearly as much as we used to and most of our food comes from Trader Joe's, instead of the expensive organic market that I used to shop at all of the time. I've also found that you can get really good deals if you have a Farmer's Market in your area and go near closing time when they really want to get rid of their inventory. Also we used to hit up a lot of happy hours, those days are pretty much over. My husband likes his Starbucks and used to go 5-6 days a week, spending $6.00 a day, so roughly he was spending $1600.00 PER YEAR on Starbucks. Now I have him down to 2-3 days a week, not ideal but still much better.

 

Also, we have been going through our little apartment left and right and we have literally BOXES of stuff we figured we could live without. Not that we wanted to live without some of it, but we narrowed most things down to the essentials and the meaningful. I had some really nice stuff from when I had a better paying job, and some neat vintage items that were collecting dust. But they were doing exactly that, collecting dust. After the New Year arrives we will be having a garage sale and listing nicer items on eBay.

 

I hope that helps. :)

Edited by gangsterfurious
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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

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After years of interest in this topic, I have concluded there is a fundamental view of money that is at the root of these issues. Until that is addressed, I think you are going to feel like Sisyphus.

 

I think you really have to look at the household finances just as a business would. Positive free cash flow every month is the key. Calculate your net worth and take a snapshot every six months or so. The graph of that should not be a straight line. Eventually, if you do it right, it will curve upward.

 

There are lots of little tricks to get you there, but until that relationship with money issue is addressed, they are of limited value I believe.

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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

 

Well but what you just did there was determine your priorities so you're already starting. So the question is, what do you do to not fall behind on your mortgage and encourage your children's talents?

 

My husband has five, count 'em five guitars. Who really NEEDS five guitars? He's not Alex or Geddy hahaha. So I think when we have our garage sale he's going to be willing to part with 1-2 of them.

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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

 

Well but what you just did there was determine your priorities so you're already starting. So the question is, what do you do to not fall behind on your mortgage and encourage your children's talents?

 

My husband has five, count 'em five guitars. Who really NEEDS five guitars? He's not Alex or Geddy hahaha. So I think when we have our garage sale he's going to be willing to part with 1-2 of them.

:scared: :cheers: Here's to your husband thinking he has to many guitars? :) Edited by Narpet
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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

 

Well but what you just did there was determine your priorities so you're already starting. So the question is, what do you do to not fall behind on your mortgage and encourage your children's talents?

 

My husband has five, count 'em five guitars. Who really NEEDS five guitars? He's not Alex or Geddy hahaha. So I think when we have our garage sale he's going to be willing to part with 1-2 of them.

Hmm.. speaking as someone who's man has more than 5 guitars (and rocks the f**k outta them :yes: ) you're playing with fire if you even try to get rid of those. When we moved this year he did sell 2 of them (he suggested it) but I have plans to get him another one because I know how much of a sacrifice he took selling those.

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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

 

Well but what you just did there was determine your priorities so you're already starting. So the question is, what do you do to not fall behind on your mortgage and encourage your children's talents?

 

My husband has five, count 'em five guitars. Who really NEEDS five guitars? He's not Alex or Geddy hahaha. So I think when we have our garage sale he's going to be willing to part with 1-2 of them.

Hmm.. speaking as someone who's man has more than 5 guitars (and rocks the f**k outta them :yes: ) you're playing with fire if you even try to get rid of those. When we moved this year he did sell 2 of them (he suggested it) but I have plans to get him another one because I know how much of a sacrifice he took selling those.

 

Yeah... see... about that... haha. I actually only have two basses right now (My GL Fender Jazz and my Ric 4001 JetGlo) and those are pretty damned important in a Rush Tribute band. The only guitar I have left is a 12-string that my wife bought me before we were even married.

 

I have gotten rid of several guitars, recording equipment, my Yamaha and Spector bass (damn I loved that bass) and several effects racks. It is tough but we do what we have to do.

 

All I have left is equipment I use. I must say, that does feel good. :)

 

Although I REALLY want one of these!

 

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx298/kengildea/ricdbl_zps6708a173.jpg

Edited by KennyLee
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Great read. I know that is what we have to do. I know it will sound like an excuse (and it is really) but with three kids it gets tough. I have one in college (ugh), one in high school and one in pre-school (oops).

 

College speaks for itself financially.

 

The 4 and 14 year old play travel hockey. Now here is where it gets tough. Travel hockey is VERY expensive but they are very good at it. The 14 year old has been playing his entire life, since he was three. The 4 year old is in his second season. As a 3 year old in a 8 & under league he scored 35 goals last year. The kid is absolutely incredible.

 

The average person would say , "He's 4 years old and will be just as happy playing with dirt. They don't know any better, blah, blah, blah."

 

They both get so much joy from it. He loves the competition and has the potential to be an incredible athlete. When I was a kid my parents would not let me play hockey (too expensive and too much time). They did not want to drive me to practices at 4am and commit to games every weekend. I swore when I had kids that if they were willing to work hard and make that commitment then I would not hold them back. Well, here we are. The 14 year old, in 11 years of hockey, has NEVER and I mean NEVER once complained about going to practice, asked if he could skip a day or complained about waking up at 4am to travel 4 hours to a game. The 4 year old has not complained once either.

 

I guess my biggest problem is... I don't want to take this away from them because I made bad choices. Not fair.

 

I will start cutting back on things I don't need but most of what I do is work, play in my Rush Tribute band :haz: and take them to hockey.

 

 

 

I will work on it and I thank you for the information.

 

Good grief, now I'm depressed.

 

Well but what you just did there was determine your priorities so you're already starting. So the question is, what do you do to not fall behind on your mortgage and encourage your children's talents?

 

My husband has five, count 'em five guitars. Who really NEEDS five guitars? He's not Alex or Geddy hahaha. So I think when we have our garage sale he's going to be willing to part with 1-2 of them.

Hmm.. speaking as someone who's man has more than 5 guitars (and rocks the f**k outta them :yes: ) you're playing with fire if you even try to get rid of those. When we moved this year he did sell 2 of them (he suggested it) but I have plans to get him another one because I know how much of a sacrifice he took selling those.

 

Yeah... see... about that... haha. I actually only have two basses right now (My GL Fender Jazz and my Ric 4001 JetGlo) and those are pretty damned important in a Rush Tribute band. The only guitar I have left is a 12-string that my wife bought me before we were even married.

 

I have gotten rid of several guitars, recording equipment, my Yamaha and Spector bass (damn I loved that bass) and several effects racks. It is tough but we do what we have to do.

 

All I have left is equipment I use. I must say, that does feel good. :)

 

Although I REALLY want one of these!

 

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx298/kengildea/ricdbl_zps6708a173.jpg

Ah... what a sick looking Rick!

 

I think I might get him either an SG or Gibson ES 335... I've seen him rock both and I think he needs those in his collection! :D

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I have some bad news. This morning my husband said he changed his mind and wouldn't be selling his guitars. lol
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I have some bad news. This morning my husband said he changed his mind and wouldn't be selling his guitars. lol

:( Back in the day I would have never sold my golf clubs either. Men and their toys...... ;)
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I have some bad news. This morning my husband said he changed his mind and wouldn't be selling his guitars. lol

 

As a fellow guitarist I can relate. But I only have two; the first guitar I ever bought and the last my father got to buy before he died. Two guitars I won't be able to part with :)

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I have some bad news. This morning my husband said he changed his mind and wouldn't be selling his guitars. lol

 

I understand. It's weird how attached you can get to them.

 

:blush:

 

Funny, I didn't know how easy it was to get attached to something in storage. grrrrrr lol

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I have some bad news. This morning my husband said he changed his mind and wouldn't be selling his guitars. lol

 

I understand. It's weird how attached you can get to them.

 

:blush:

 

Funny, I didn't know how easy it was to get attached to something in storage. grrrrrr lol

 

Wait... storage! He's not even playing them??

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He plays 2-3 of them and the other two are in storage. We don't have room in our apartment for all five of them.
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He plays 2-3 of them and the other two are in storage. We don't have room in our apartment for all five of them.

 

Well if they're not important enough to play, they can be sold, IMO.

 

Unless they have some sentimental or monetary value (that will increase with age).

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He plays 2-3 of them and the other two are in storage. We don't have room in our apartment for all five of them.

I'll make some modest assumptions here to illustrate a point.

 

Assume $2,000 worth of goods stored at $50/month. The difference to your net worth 5 years down the road between keeping the status quo, and selling the goods and applying it to debt is about $8,000 (assuming 15% cost of debt. $7,000 if 10%). As a matter of fact, your net worth in 5 years would be about $1,500 higher in 5 years if you hauled the goods to the dump today and got nothing for them.

 

Paying money to store non-essential, mostly depreciating "assets" (they are in fact liabilities at this point) while carrying debt is almost a perfect storm of wealth destruction. Breaking emotional attachments to material goods (it's just stuff) is the key to financial independence IMO.

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He plays 2-3 of them and the other two are in storage. We don't have room in our apartment for all five of them.

I'll make some modest assumptions here to illustrate a point.

 

Assume $2,000 worth of goods stored at $50/month. The difference to your net worth 5 years down the road between keeping the status quo, and selling the goods and applying it to debt is about $8,000 (assuming 15% cost of debt. $7,000 if 10%). As a matter of fact, your net worth in 5 years would be about $1,500 higher in 5 years if you hauled the goods to the dump today and got nothing for them.

 

Paying money to store non-essential, mostly depreciating "assets" (they are in fact liabilities at this point) while carrying debt is almost a perfect storm of wealth destruction. Breaking emotional attachments to material goods (it's just stuff) is the key to financial independence IMO.

:hail: :notworthy: Edited by Narpet
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He plays 2-3 of them and the other two are in storage. We don't have room in our apartment for all five of them.

I'll make some modest assumptions here to illustrate a point.

 

Assume $2,000 worth of goods stored at $50/month. The difference to your net worth 5 years down the road between keeping the status quo, and selling the goods and applying it to debt is about $8,000 (assuming 15% cost of debt. $7,000 if 10%). As a matter of fact, your net worth in 5 years would be about $1,500 higher in 5 years if you hauled the goods to the dump today and got nothing for them.

 

Paying money to store non-essential, mostly depreciating "assets" (they are in fact liabilities at this point) while carrying debt is almost a perfect storm of wealth destruction. Breaking emotional attachments to material goods (it's just stuff) is the key to financial independence IMO.

 

Well I think I should clarify what I mean by "storage". We live in a small early century (last century) five unit building that used to be a large home and there are four former carriage garages out in the back, that is where the guitars are. It's also my husband's garage for his motorcycle and tools and is included in our rent payment. I wouldn't go out and pay for a storage unit to keep crap in, that is one thing that has never made any sense to me. It's just typical 'Murica to have a garage loaded full of CRAP that should be donated while a car worth thousands sits out in the elements or to pay thousands to store stuff that let's face it, will probably never see the light of day again. Humans, *pffttt*.

Edited by gangsterfurious
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I think I figured out my sister paid about $6,000 to store what I estimate to be about $500 worth of stuff over the years.

 

Unless any stored assets (even with no storage fees) are appreciating at the rate of the interest of any debts (or better), they are in fact liabilities that are costing money. Add the interest rate of the debt to the depreciation rate of the non-used assets, and you get the risk-free rate of return for selling them and applying the money to the debt.

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