Do you think of Permanent Waves as a 70s album or an 80s album?

[rushgoober]

Well for me, it's 80s all the way, both in date and in sound. One fact I like to boast about Rush is that they kicked off the decade that a lot of people consider to have the most memorable music, and not to mention such a strong testament of a song to kick it off with. Musically it sounds way closer to Moving Pictures than Hemspheres, so I will go with 80s. Though the intro videos for the Time Machine Tour seem to dictate that the band members consider it to be an album from 79 (and moving pictures being from 1980 for that matter). I personally like to look at their albums in pairs rather than quads. They have the Hard Rock, Trio-prog, Synth Prog, Classic rock, Simple Synth, Heavy Synth, Alternative, Heavy Folk Rock, and refined metal combo's. (Feedback not included, Clockwork Angels awaiting duo album name should it come).

 

I think most people think that the 80s generally had the worst music of the 1960-2000 period. By far. Compare to the brilliance of the 70s and 90s, I really don't think it's close. I haven't given much thought to the 2000s, though.

 

i don't think most people think that, just as i don't think most people share a lot of your musical views. as far as i'm concerned, each successive decade post-70's has become more and more bleak musically. and i do actually think there was some brilliant music in the 90's, but it was generally non mainstream genres like ambient, shoegaze and trip-hop, but even those by the mid 90's were losing their luster. popular music from the 90's, outside of the rare exception, pretty much sucked. at least popular music in the 80's was fun, if lightweight. popular music in the 90's was just kind of a downer, and popular music post-90's is pretty vapid.

 

The 90s brought a rejuvenation of rock and roll and guitar based music into popular music after being secondary since the late 70s. 1987-89 saw a bit of a surge in this, but bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, the Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, and others brought guitar and rock into prominence in the pop realm, being played on the radio incessantly and dominating the sales charts while the pop artists of the 80s all climbed into holes and died.

 

THOSE bands are your example of good music?

[LedRush]

Well for me, it's 80s all the way, both in date and in sound. One fact I like to boast about Rush is that they kicked off the decade that a lot of people consider to have the most memorable music, and not to mention such a strong testament of a song to kick it off with. Musically it sounds way closer to Moving Pictures than Hemspheres, so I will go with 80s. Though the intro videos for the Time Machine Tour seem to dictate that the band members consider it to be an album from 79 (and moving pictures being from 1980 for that matter). I personally like to look at their albums in pairs rather than quads. They have the Hard Rock, Trio-prog, Synth Prog, Classic rock, Simple Synth, Heavy Synth, Alternative, Heavy Folk Rock, and refined metal combo's. (Feedback not included, Clockwork Angels awaiting duo album name should it come).

 

I think most people think that the 80s generally had the worst music of the 1960-2000 period. By far. Compare to the brilliance of the 70s and 90s, I really don't think it's close. I haven't given much thought to the 2000s, though.

 

i don't think most people think that, just as i don't think most people share a lot of your musical views. as far as i'm concerned, each successive decade post-70's has become more and more bleak musically. and i do actually think there was some brilliant music in the 90's, but it was generally non mainstream genres like ambient, shoegaze and trip-hop, but even those by the mid 90's were losing their luster. popular music from the 90's, outside of the rare exception, pretty much sucked. at least popular music in the 80's was fun, if lightweight. popular music in the 90's was just kind of a downer, and popular music post-90's is pretty vapid.

 

The 90s brought a rejuvenation of rock and roll and guitar based music into popular music after being secondary since the late 70s. 1987-89 saw a bit of a surge in this, but bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, the Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, and others brought guitar and rock into prominence in the pop realm, being played on the radio incessantly and dominating the sales charts while the pop artists of the 80s all climbed into holes and died.

 

THOSE bands are your example of good music?

 

Phew. I'm right again. Though I'm not into Nirvana.

[rushgoober]

Well for me, it's 80s all the way, both in date and in sound. One fact I like to boast about Rush is that they kicked off the decade that a lot of people consider to have the most memorable music, and not to mention such a strong testament of a song to kick it off with. Musically it sounds way closer to Moving Pictures than Hemspheres, so I will go with 80s. Though the intro videos for the Time Machine Tour seem to dictate that the band members consider it to be an album from 79 (and moving pictures being from 1980 for that matter). I personally like to look at their albums in pairs rather than quads. They have the Hard Rock, Trio-prog, Synth Prog, Classic rock, Simple Synth, Heavy Synth, Alternative, Heavy Folk Rock, and refined metal combo's. (Feedback not included, Clockwork Angels awaiting duo album name should it come).

 

I think most people think that the 80s generally had the worst music of the 1960-2000 period. By far. Compare to the brilliance of the 70s and 90s, I really don't think it's close. I haven't given much thought to the 2000s, though.

 

i don't think most people think that, just as i don't think most people share a lot of your musical views. as far as i'm concerned, each successive decade post-70's has become more and more bleak musically. and i do actually think there was some brilliant music in the 90's, but it was generally non mainstream genres like ambient, shoegaze and trip-hop, but even those by the mid 90's were losing their luster. popular music from the 90's, outside of the rare exception, pretty much sucked. at least popular music in the 80's was fun, if lightweight. popular music in the 90's was just kind of a downer, and popular music post-90's is pretty vapid.

 

The 90s brought a rejuvenation of rock and roll and guitar based music into popular music after being secondary since the late 70s. 1987-89 saw a bit of a surge in this, but bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, the Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, and others brought guitar and rock into prominence in the pop realm, being played on the radio incessantly and dominating the sales charts while the pop artists of the 80s all climbed into holes and died.

 

THOSE bands are your example of good music?

 

Phew. I'm right again. Though I'm not into Nirvana.

 

Didn't answer my question, but I guess that's ok...

[bathory]

I've never heard someone not say it, but ...

That phrase will cause a brain reset if you really try and interpret it.

every person ledrush meets is compelled to inform him that the 80s had the worst music

 

And that's all they say. Over and over and over...

 

I think we can read the implied "when asked about it" :D

 

sorry I was pulling a JARG

[Slack jaw gaze]

To illustrate just how wild I am, I don't sub-divide my album collection by decade. I'm so off-the-hook I don't even have them sorted by chronological order. I don't have artists mixed however. I'm not insane.

 

Subdivisions -

In the message boards

In the album hoards

Be prog or be cast out

 

Drawn like moths we drift into the chasm

The timeless old attraction

Lumping stuff by decades

As it it has some meaning

Just because a number's mod 10

 

Subdivisions -

In the message boards

In the album hoards

Be synth or be cast out

[Bastille Dave]

PeW was a transitional album, kinda caught in the middle between 70's and 80's, as were alot of releases around '79 to '81. Not quite the 1980's mentality yet but at the same time awakening from the 70's smoke-filled haze and trying something new. But if you twisted my arm, I'd lump Permanent Waves in the 1970's catagory. I always look at the release date of an album and subtract 4-6 months or so and to me that is when the album was truly created. Rush were creating these songs during the end of the Tour Of The Semispheres, which was very much steeped in all it's 70's glory. :smoke:

[goose]

I always think of Vital Signs as the track that brought RUSH into the 80's in term of song and structure. It's a pretty clear segue into New Wave influenced song-writing. (meanwhile, speaking of the 80's sound, "What I Like About You" comes on Sirius )

[The Analog Grownup]

I still can't decide which decade I would put Permanent Waves in. Guess it's too much a crossover album.

 

IMO and all that ;)

[greyfriar]

Think it's definitely a 70's album to me. It leads the boys straight into the new decade, to the almost perfect sound of MP.

[jamie]

I think it's very 70's. It has that 70's sound to it, but you can tell that they were going into a new era.

[EagleMoon]

To me the biggest change was between Caress of Steel, 2112 and A Farewell to Kings. Almost seems like a different band.

[Steevo]

Well for me, it's 80s all the way, both in date and in sound. One fact I like to boast about Rush is that they kicked off the decade that a lot of people consider to have the most memorable music, and not to mention such a strong testament of a song to kick it off with. Musically it sounds way closer to Moving Pictures than Hemspheres, so I will go with 80s. Though the intro videos for the Time Machine Tour seem to dictate that the band members consider it to be an album from 79 (and moving pictures being from 1980 for that matter). I personally like to look at their albums in pairs rather than quads. They have the Hard Rock, Trio-prog, Synth Prog, Classic rock, Simple Synth, Heavy Synth, Alternative, Heavy Folk Rock, and refined metal combo's. (Feedback not included, Clockwork Angels awaiting duo album name should it come).

 

I think most people think that the 80s generally had the worst music of the 1960-2000 period. By far. Compare to the brilliance of the 70s and 90s, I really don't think it's close. I haven't given much thought to the 2000s, though.

 

i don't think most people think that, just as i don't think most people share a lot of your musical views. as far as i'm concerned, each successive decade post-70's has become more and more bleak musically. and i do actually think there was some brilliant music in the 90's, but it was generally non mainstream genres like ambient, shoegaze and trip-hop, but even those by the mid 90's were losing their luster. popular music from the 90's, outside of the rare exception, pretty much sucked. at least popular music in the 80's was fun, if lightweight. popular music in the 90's was just kind of a downer, and popular music post-90's is pretty vapid.

 

The 90s brought a rejuvenation of rock and roll and guitar based music into popular music after being secondary since the late 70s. 1987-89 saw a bit of a surge in this, but bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, the Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, and others brought guitar and rock into prominence in the pop realm, being played on the radio incessantly and dominating the sales charts while the pop artists of the 80s all climbed into holes and died.

 

THOSE bands are your example of good music?

 

Phew. I'm right again. Though I'm not into Nirvana.

 

Why not? They're great. More pop hooks than Pearl Jam and Soundgarden combined could ever dream of.

[psionic11]

The 80's is really nostalgic for me, I wish I could jam in a band that played 80's stuff with a bunch of 80's fans, young and old, dancing along and having a good time. That would be a great time to throw in a PEW song here and there, to remind them of the "other stuff" that was happening at the time...

 

Seventies prog had a certain sound, and what little 80's prog rock there was also had a certain sound. I voted to put PEW in the 70's, because that is a much better background for PEW. PEW was the last breath of the 70's, a harbinger of things to come, yes?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I swear I read somewhere it was released on December 31, 1979. Oh well, even so it's definitely 70s for me. The way I see it (and the way it's explained in beyond the lighted stage, and the way I could tell upon first listen of Hemispheres) Hemispheres was the absolute culmination of core 70s Rush as the ideas just couldn't go any further in that direction. Similar things happened to other bands at the time to, like Queen upon the release of A Day at the Races. When I first listened to both of those albums, they sounded much samier than the past ones and anyone could tell it was just time for a change. Thankfully, both of my favorite bands decided to scale it back and pick up with the mainstream a bit more. Now Rush entered a transitional period like many bands of the late 70s/early 80s (one of the best times in music for Rock and Roll in truth). This began with the brilliant PeW, recorded late in 1979, it climaxed with MP in 1981 with the balance between the synths and the guitars being just about perfect if one desires sheer awesomeness from both, and to a small degree (mostly taking the lick from The Analog Kid into account) one could say that even Signals was a part of this transition.

[Xanadoood]

Its really the lost Journey album.

[RushBoingo]

Wow, too many things to quote. I haven't been on this thread in a long time, so I will just say what I can remember I need to respond to. First off, to respond to the album categories confusion. I grouped Presto/Roll the Bones as alternative because it was back to a rock sound, but not classic rock, nor classic Rush, hence alternative Rush. I call the Counterparts/Test for Echo group Heavy Folk, simply because that's the vibe I get from the albums, particularly on songs like Cold Fire, Everyday Glory, Totem, and Resist. I guess to appeal to the masses I could have called it Heavy Alternative, but I really feel like it's a hard rock interpretation of folk style writing on those two albums. And Lastly I call the Vapor Trails/Snakes and Arrows group refined metal, because it's heavy, but still sounds sophisticated and well planned, with detailed musical styling (sorry Metal fans, but I personally interpret most metal as, well, primitive, nothing wrong with that, but my favorite album is Power Windows, put the pieces together as to where my musical interests lie). (continued in next post)

[RushBoingo]

As too LED Rush's comments on the worst music being from the 80s, I don't know where you are from, but where I am from, I can't think of a single adult (except the few diehard synth haters), who don't recall the 80s as the best decade of music. Whether it be the pop listeners who can fondly recall every synth riff, the punks who love the refined sound of post punk and new wave, or the underground lovers, who were just learning of 90s alternative before it was a thing. Also up in Winnipeg, the 80's/90's station (It also plays "Whatever", for some added variety) is the most popular station, so statistics don't lie. Sure there was crap, but every decade has crap, and some do think of the 80s as the worst (SYNTH HATER'S!) but it all comes down to personal taste. Hell I am even Biased as I am actually a minority on this site by finding it hard to enjoy anything that doesn't have any electronic element to it (I have to brush away quite a bit of dust if I want to listen to one of Rush's first four albums) so I look quite fondly on the 80s for pioneering electronic music. Edited November 3, 2013 by RushBoingo

[RushBoingo]

As I think about it more, I actually think Side One of Permanent Waves is an 80s album, and Side Two is a 70s Album. It's kind of like Rush is saying, SIDE ONE: This is the Future, Enjoy. SIDE TWO: Here is your last look at the past, Relish in it.

[Jimmysinn2112]

70s

[GeddysMullet]

As I think about it more, I actually think Side One of Permanent Waves is an 80s album, and Side Two is a 70s Album. It's kind of like Rush is saying, SIDE ONE: This is the Future, Enjoy. SIDE TWO: Here is your last look at the past, Relish in it.

 

This is a really interesting take on Permanent Waves. I like it. :goodone:

[Entre_Perpetuo]

In response to the eighties sub-discussion. I don't find the eighties as amazing as the seventies personally, mostly for those just SOOO eighties songs (you know the ones) that I can only bear so much of, but it was definitely a great decade for music. I will say, though, that most rock bands from the seventies or even from the late 70s/early 80s period (which is certainly one of the best times in music like ever, just look at all the "best albums ever" by certain bands) died out around the mid eighties as it just started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic). The seventies, on the other hand, were awesome all the way through for music, you had the Beatles last album, Led Zepp IV, the beginnings and climaxes of tons of bands from Rush to Queen to Journey to Styx to Pink Floyd to just so many others, and you ended it all with the brilliance of finding that perfect blend between the past and the future.

[RushBoingo]

In response to the eighties sub-discussion. I don't find the eighties as amazing as the seventies personally, mostly for those just SOOO eighties songs (you know the ones) that I can only bear so much of, but it was definitely a great decade for music. I will say, though, that most rock bands from the seventies or even from the late 70s/early 80s period (which is certainly one of the best times in music like ever, just look at all the "best albums ever" by certain bands) died out around the mid eighties as it just started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic). The seventies, on the other hand, were awesome all the way through for music, you had the Beatles last album, Led Zepp IV, the beginnings and climaxes of tons of bands from Rush to Queen to Journey to Styx to Pink Floyd to just so many others, and you ended it all with the brilliance of finding that perfect blend between the past and the future.

I don't know the 70s had a pretty big fair share of crap with it too. And whereas most of these listed artists were not on the mainstream in the 70s, in the 80s, there was lots of good stuff on the top 40. Also when you say "started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic)", that point (for me anyway) just further embellishes how better the 80's/90's were compared to the 60's and 70's. I honestly don't listen to much stuff released before permanent waves (not counting Rush albums, but only one 70s album to a higher regard), just because of bland instrumentation, cringe inducing vocal styling, lack of heavy synthesizers, and just poorer sound quality that the decade could afford (keep in mind this is just opinion, and there are many others on here that don't believe what I am writing).

[Narps]

In response to the eighties sub-discussion. I don't find the eighties as amazing as the seventies personally, mostly for those just SOOO eighties songs (you know the ones) that I can only bear so much of, but it was definitely a great decade for music. I will say, though, that most rock bands from the seventies or even from the late 70s/early 80s period (which is certainly one of the best times in music like ever, just look at all the "best albums ever" by certain bands) died out around the mid eighties as it just started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic). The seventies, on the other hand, were awesome all the way through for music, you had the Beatles last album, Led Zepp IV, the beginnings and climaxes of tons of bands from Rush to Queen to Journey to Styx to Pink Floyd to just so many others, and you ended it all with the brilliance of finding that perfect blend between the past and the future.

I don't know the 70s had a pretty big fair share of crap with it too. And whereas most of these listed artists were not on the mainstream in the 70s, in the 80s, there was lots of good stuff on the top 40. Also when you say "started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic)", that point (for me anyway) just further embellishes how better the 80's/90's were compared to the 60's and 70's. I honestly don't listen to much stuff released before permanent waves (not counting Rush albums, but only one 70s album to a higher regard), just because of bland instrumentation, cringe inducing vocal styling, lack of heavy synthesizers, and just poorer sound quality that the decade could afford (keep in mind this is just opinion, and there are many others on here that don't believe what I am writing).

You are not a 70's Yes fan at all?................ :codger:

[Tick]

90's

[RushBoingo]

In response to the eighties sub-discussion. I don't find the eighties as amazing as the seventies personally, mostly for those just SOOO eighties songs (you know the ones) that I can only bear so much of, but it was definitely a great decade for music. I will say, though, that most rock bands from the seventies or even from the late 70s/early 80s period (which is certainly one of the best times in music like ever, just look at all the "best albums ever" by certain bands) died out around the mid eighties as it just started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic). The seventies, on the other hand, were awesome all the way through for music, you had the Beatles last album, Led Zepp IV, the beginnings and climaxes of tons of bands from Rush to Queen to Journey to Styx to Pink Floyd to just so many others, and you ended it all with the brilliance of finding that perfect blend between the past and the future.

I don't know the 70s had a pretty big fair share of crap with it too. And whereas most of these listed artists were not on the mainstream in the 70s, in the 80s, there was lots of good stuff on the top 40. Also when you say "started to become apparent where music was headed (alternative and heavy electronic)", that point (for me anyway) just further embellishes how better the 80's/90's were compared to the 60's and 70's. I honestly don't listen to much stuff released before permanent waves (not counting Rush albums, but only one 70s album to a higher regard), just because of bland instrumentation, cringe inducing vocal styling, lack of heavy synthesizers, and just poorer sound quality that the decade could afford (keep in mind this is just opinion, and there are many others on here that don't believe what I am writing).

You are not a 70's Yes fan at all?................ :codger:

I actually know very little of Yes's work. I should look more into them at some point, but quite honestly electronic and alternative music is where it is at with me. There is one album of Yes's I do enjoy quite a bit though, and that is Drama. I listened to Drama because I am a big fan of The Buggles, and they basically joined in with Yes on that record, so I was curious to see what they would come up with sound wise. I know Drama is an 80s album, but eh, it's relevant-ish to what you asked. Like I said above, I am very alternative/electronic minded when it comes to music. Rush is very far away from any other band I like.