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Hold Your Fire: the directors' cuts?


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Poll: Hold Your Fire or Fire away (36 member(s) have cast votes)

If HYF had been limited to 22'30" per side, would it have been perfect?

  1. Nah, I wouldn't like it anyway. (4 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. No way, José Feliciano, leave it the way it is! (24 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. Absolutely. See my track list is in the comments section. (8 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#61 Jon2112

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

I wouldn't re-mix, re-edit anything on Hold Your Fire.

I listened to HYF again for the first time in many years, and a thought came to mind;  It was 1987, and you know what a lot of popular music sounded like?

Phil Collins

F'in Phil Collins

HYF sounds like an attempt to have that smoothed out "adult contemporary" sound that was so pervasive on so many recordings of the time, and while there are some great songs on the record, that's the taste left in my mouth after having not listened to the record in forever.

Force Ten is probably the only track on the album that doesnt' give me that vibe.

I don't know, maybe they were shooting for a "mature" record, and that was the result.

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#62 Bangster of Goats

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:23 AM

Well, all I know is, back when the album was first released in 1987, people still commonly used 90-minute cassettes (45 mins per side) to copy albums for car stereos and stuff.  Tai Shan was the one most commonly left off when you wanted to fit it on one side, heh.  (Myself, I think I ended up just using a 60 min cassette and matched the vinyl album sides. ;))

Tai Shan... the song Geddy says is an "error" and we'd be "waiting a long time" for the band to play live, but I think if I had to take something off, it would be Second Nature.  Tai Shan has some interesting atmospherics and was clearly something a little experimental, but Second Nature just sounds corny to me.  But still, it's hard to imagine the album any differently after all these years.

#63 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

View PostBangster of Goats, on 26 August 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Well, all I know is, back when the album was first released in 1987, people still commonly used 90-minute cassettes (45 mins per side) to copy albums for car stereos and stuff.  Tai Shan was the one most commonly left off when you wanted to fit it on one side, heh.  (Myself, I think I ended up just using a 60 min cassette and matched the vinyl album sides. ;))

Tai Shan... the song Geddy says is an "error" and we'd be "waiting a long time" for the band to play live, but I think if I had to take something off, it would be Second Nature.  Tai Shan has some interesting atmospherics and was clearly something a little experimental, but Second Nature just sounds corny to me.  But still, it's hard to imagine the album any differently after all these years.
I, too, am finding it hard to settle on the songs to remove. At one point I was about ready to remove three or four, to help the decision, but after listening to the others' running orders, I find virtue in a song I'd remove in a slightly altered context (I suppose I should have posted this is the "games" section of the forum).

The main thing for me is that the album is weakened having all fifty-and-a-half minutes of the ten songs on it. Maybe, had they opted for a couple of three-minute tunes it might flow better for me.

Like you, I'm not a Tai Shan hater, but have to admit that it's the one track firmly on the chopping block. But the clincher for that decision is that I feel that the—er—mystical territory had been covered on the previous album somehow.

#64 WavesandWindows

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 17 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

View PostWavesandWindows, on 17 August 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, Tai Shan. It's finally not sounding too good to me. A.so either Ooen Secrets or Second Nature need to go
Yikes. I shutter to think of HYF without Open Secrets. Nevertheless, would you leave the running order otherwise the same?

Wells yes. I think I meant Second Nature though.

#65 WavesandWindows

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:17 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 17 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

View PostWavesandWindows, on 17 August 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, Tai Shan. It's finally not sounding too good to me. A.so either Ooen Secrets or Second Nature need to go
Yikes. I shutter to think of HYF without Open Secrets. Nevertheless, would you leave the running order otherwise the same?

Well yes. I think I meant Second Nature though.

#66 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

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#67 GeminiRising79

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 15 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

yeah missteps can lead to greater missteps...take Presto for example

Or Vapour Trails

#68 sitboaf

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:17 PM

Part of what's muddying this discussion is that Turn the Page is a good album closer.
But there are 2 more songs after it.

So, to me the real question is:
If Tai Shan and High Water (or Open Secrets or Second Nature, or whatever your least 2 favorites are...) were nestled into the middle of the album, and Turn The Page was the last song on the album, would you still want to lop any songs off of HYF?

Edited by sitboaf, 27 August 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#69 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

View Postsitboaf, on 27 August 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Part of what's muddying this discussion is that Turn the Page is a good album closer.
But there are 2 more songs after it.

So, to me the real question is:
If Tai Shan and High Water (or Open Secrets or Second Nature, or whatever your least 2 favorites are...) were nestled into the middle of the album, and Turn The Page was the last song on the album, would you still want to lop any songs off of HYF?
Now you're talking.  And that just about settles it as far as the second song I wanted to omit; you clarified something I'd thought a while back.

Now my question for you is (not that you gotta play, but...): Are you willing to remove two songs, and what would your running order be (before TtP)?

#70 sitboaf

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostGed Lent, on 27 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

View Postsitboaf, on 27 August 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Part of what's muddying this discussion is that Turn the Page is a good album closer.
But there are 2 more songs after it.

So, to me the real question is:
If Tai Shan and High Water (or Open Secrets or Second Nature, or whatever your least 2 favorites are...) were nestled into the middle of the album, and Turn The Page was the last song on the album, would you still want to lop any songs off of HYF?
Now you're talking.  And that just about settles it as far as the second song I wanted to omit; you clarified something I'd thought a while back.

Now my question for you is (not that you gotta play, but...): Are you willing to remove two songs, and what would your running order be (before TtP)?
I'll play. I kick the last two songs off, and not because they come after Turn The Page. They just aren't up to snuff.
I agree with the earlier post about Tai Shan; I kinda like listening to it separately, but it doesn't seem to work in the context of the album. I'm not making excuses for it; it's an average song (not an average Rush song, an average ROCK song) that kills its own momentum. After the pretty, bendy keyboard parts, it stalls. I keep half-expecting a kickass section to start right there. Anyway, the point is, any song that kills momentum is bad for album flow. There's just no good place to put it.
As for High Water, it's just OK. If you can stick some very good songs around it, it doesn't hurt you much. But Hold Your Fire has too many C+ songs that manage to keep the flow going but can't hold up a weak neighbor. Again, not trying to be mean - a "B" song is a true album highlight, and HYF has four of them.

So, that's why those two go. I end up with this:

Force Ten (great opener)
Time Stands Still
Open Secrets
Prime Mover (good closer)

Mission (works well as an opener or a closer)
Second Nature
Lock and Key
Turn The Page

Edited by sitboaf, 27 August 2013 - 11:40 PM.


#71 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:45 AM

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#72 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:10 AM



#73 Digital Dad

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:46 AM

My version is missing Tai Shan and Prlme Mover.

#74 Red3angel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:35 PM

Agree . When I play this album I played on shuffle. Actually I play all of them that way. I like surprises

#75 JohnRogers

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:35 AM

Hold Your Fire the film? :wtf:

#76 goose

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:38 AM

View PostTransverse Leaf Spring, on 23 February 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Hold Your Fire the film? :wtf:
Horror, no doubt.

#77 bluefox4000

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:51 AM

I just Remove the last 2 tracks and i'm good.

My fav Rush Album

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#78 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:50 AM

View Postgoose, on 23 February 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostTransverse Leaf Spring, on 23 February 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Hold Your Fire the film? :wtf:
Horror, no doubt.

Some might say that the boys lost their way with Hold Your Fire.

I say, it was 1987!



On paper I shouldn’t like layers of synth smothering Lifeson or a horror film with the Coreys.

However, I like both without feeling too much pressure from nostalgia. :hail:

#79 Wil1972

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:04 PM

View Postgoose, on 23 February 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostTransverse Leaf Spring, on 23 February 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Hold Your Fire the film? :wtf:
Horror, no doubt.

Rom/Com.


And I would leave off Lock and Key and Tai Shan.

Edited by Wil1972, 23 February 2018 - 02:05 PM.


#80 yyz305

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:57 PM

Would leave it the way it is, but if forced would drop Lock and Key and Tai Shan




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