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Hold Your Fire: the directors' cuts?


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Poll: Hold Your Fire or Fire away (36 member(s) have cast votes)

If HYF had been limited to 22'30" per side, would it have been perfect?

  1. Nah, I wouldn't like it anyway. (4 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. No way, José Feliciano, leave it the way it is! (24 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. Absolutely. See my track list is in the comments section. (8 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#41 bathory

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

my friend's favorite on this album is second nature

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#42 Cyclonus X-1

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostGed Lent, on 16 August 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

View Postlosingit2k, on 16 August 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

That's pretty cool dude!

:rush: :haz: :rush:
Thanks! I forgot rushgoober, so I hope this is right...
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Ha, these are awesome.  Very nice work.

#43 jnoble

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:10 PM

View Postlosingit2k, on 15 August 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play! Side 1
Force Ten
Time Stand Still
Second Nature
Prime Mover

Side 2
Lock And Key
Open Secrets
Mission
Turn the Page

HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!?  :|  

It's lyrically and musically and arrangment wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.

Edited by jnoble, 16 August 2013 - 11:17 PM.


#44 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:02 AM

View Postjnoble, on 16 August 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!?  :|  

It's lyrically and musically and arrangement wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.
With these explicit thoughts, you effectively express, at least in part, how I felt/feel about HYF. On the one hand, it's got a sonic breadth of warmth that's an undeniable extension of Power Windows, showcasing a band stretching out as they always had, which is why I love them and have a unique fondness for the album. On the other hand, HYF has the first RUSH selections I would classify as a "guilty pleasure".

I would only amend that—while they may not have made themselves famous (they already were)--it did win them a whole new classification of fan(s):
LedRush often mentions the fact that many fans were turned off by the synth era. This record represents the pinnacle of what turned them off. Me, not being one of those—I followed Signals >> p/g >> PoW with great interest and intense joy—it represents more the beginnings of a pattern of musical arrangement (especially the vocal arrangements) that seemed less creative somehow.

But I'd be lying to deny that the effect LedRush is talking about might not have at least indirect influence on what, hehe, lead RUSH in this direction:
Was HYF an example of RUSH stretching out, or was it just Ged getting a little busier on each record? And what effect might Neil's lyrical content have had on Geddy's arrangement of the same (extending beyond the "synth era" and into what followed)??

Thanks to the great documentary that is every RUSH fan's wet-dream, we now know that Lerxst was indeed annoyed by having to find a place within this apex of his childhood friend's hyper-digit experimentation. That the band went on to thrive beyond this stage of their development, that Ged pulled back from the keys for the cohesion of the greater project, and that they are still making music is a singular example in the history of music.

HYF represents to me all of that. So my idea with this post & poll was meant more as a tribute to a momentous album and the plethora of divergent experience it inspired.

As I sit here listening to LedRush's production, I'll leave you with the following thought:
HOLD YOUR FIRE is the last album I bought, brought home, placed in the player and sat in my special seat facing my big-ass JBL speakers to form an isosceles triangle for optimum effect, paged through the liner notes & lyrics and lay back & shut my eyes. Actually, it was the only time I ever took the mesh guard off the speaker cabinets. I'll never forget how the woofer vibrated as FORCE TEN ushered in the beginning of that experience. One of a kind.

Having said all of that, listening to your alternate compilations of eight more closely brings back that feeling than listening to the original ten. And I still can't decide which is the last song I wanna cut. One day it's LOCK AND KEY the next it's TURN THE PAGE. Who knows, maybe listening to losingit2k's production will change my mind and I'll leave both in and give something else the axe. It is an interesting choice to open and close Side 2 with those songs, respectively. Maybe the extra song in between and their acting as bookends will reshape my feeling of each's superfluousness.

So far, thanks for indulging me and playing along!

#45 WavesandWindows

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:34 AM

Well, Tai Shan. It's finally not sounding too good to me. A.so either Ooen Secrets or Second Nature need to go

#46 circumstantial tree

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:48 AM

The album packs so much meaning for me personally. I really get a lot out of it. My teen years were the synth years. I began Junior high with Signals and ended high school and began college with Hold Your Fire. I tend not to think of Rush and what instrument dominates on any particular album because if I did, the magic would be lost.

#47 losingit2k

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

View Postjnoble, on 16 August 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

View Postlosingit2k, on 15 August 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play! Side 1
Force Ten
Time Stand Still
Second Nature
Prime Mover

Side 2
Lock And Key
Open Secrets
Mission
Turn the Page

HYF is a majestic sounding melodic underrated album but I'd be lying if I denied finding myself listening to one of the really wimpy songs (both lyrically and musically) like Second Nature or Tai Shan and asking myself "dude, this is the same band that made such ass-kicking barn burning songs like Anthem... and Bastille Day.... and 2112... and Hemispheres...and Cygnus X1... and YYZ etc. What happened to these guys?!?  :|  

It's lyrically and musically and arrangment wise a very good album for the most part (this was pre-failing voice Geddy shoehorning lyrics and the wall of layered distortion Alex sound and Neil's "the world sucks and people are mean" lyrical themes) It's just that this kind of overproduced lush sounding soft-rock wasn't what a band like Rush made themselves famous doing.

Everything needs to change to stay alive. RUSH has been able to accomplish this more than any band I know. I see HYF as one end of a full circle which began with the Title album and culminated with Clockwork Angels and HYF lies smack in the middle of this journey. Initially I like the entire album but as time progressed the last two songs have not held up to the test of time IMO. The rest still have that progressive edge I come to expect from every  RUSH song. This album hold a special place in my heart for its when Albums turned into CDs. This was the the only RUSH album I bought both versions upon release. HYF was the first CD I ever had and I played it religiously! It was also the last album that received heavy airplay on the radio. I remember hearing just about every song at what time or another. Its a well crafted album and the Tour was equally as great! It was a great album during a great time in my life!

#48 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostWavesandWindows, on 17 August 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, Tai Shan. It's finally not sounding too good to me. A.so either Ooen Secrets or Second Nature need to go
Yikes. I shutter to think of HYF without Open Secrets. Nevertheless, would you leave the running order otherwise the same?

#49 Virtualbob64

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostJ2112YYZ, on 15 August 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

The only time the song quality and momentum drop for me is on the last two tracks. I think the album is great up until Tai Shan just about kills everything. High Water is a decent tune but it just isn't on the same level of the first eight songs. If they had made this like the three albums before it and only had eight songs, ending the album with Turn The Page, it would be pretty close to a perfect album for me.
DITTO!!!

#50 circumstantial tree

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:02 PM

sometimes a song heard all by itself takes on a new feel often than when heard with the other songs on the album. I can see why people might diss Tai Shan and High Water. When I first bought the album, I felt the same as most that those two songs seemed out of place or unnecessary. I grew to love them though even though I never disliked them. I think High Water is a good song to listen to by itself and Tai Shan as well.

#51 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:50 PM

Posted Image    Posted Image

Posted Image   Posted Image

#52 Ancient Ways

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:28 PM

Whatever you want to delete is always a song someone out there likes.  Most people seem to dislike the larger bowl from  SnA but it is one of my faves.  I say leave it be.

#53 circumstantial tree

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:47 PM

View PostGed Lent, on 17 August 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Posted Image    Posted Image

Posted Image   Posted Image
wrong! I want all 10 songs but with Tai Shan and High water as bonus tracks!

#54 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:26 AM

View Postcircumstantial tree, on 17 August 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

wrong! I want all 10 songs but with Tai Shan and High water as bonus tracks!

Sincere apologies. It's just that light of what you said here...

View Postcircumstantial tree, on 17 August 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

sometimes a song heard all by itself takes on a new feel often than when heard with the other songs on the album. I can see why people might diss Tai Shan and High Water. When I first bought the album, I felt the same as most that those two songs seemed out of place or unnecessary. I grew to love them though even though I never disliked them. I think High Water is a good song to listen to by itself and Tai Shan as well.

...I figured your production might help others appreciate the songs the same way you did and eventually go back to listening to the cd in all its ten-track glory.

And, anyway, I'm only pressing vinyl of the highest audio quality; there are only 22m30s per side, like I said before. So, if you like, think of your tracks as having to be on a single, inserted in the package as a bonus to supplement the production of J2112YYZ and Virtualbob64 -- thus:

Posted Image Posted Image
I mean, it's the same running order—so no harm, no foul.

#55 USB Connector

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:58 AM

You're telling me that HyF wasn't primarily composed of rejected songs from power windows?

#56 circumstantial tree

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

You still don't have it right. My running order is:

Force Ten
Time Stand Still
Open Secrets
Second Nature
Prime Mover
Lock and Key
Mission
Turn the Page
Tai Shan (bonus cut)
High Water (bonus cut)

#57 LedRush

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:41 PM

View PostUSB Connector, on 18 August 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

You're telling me that HyF wasn't primarily composed of rejected songs from power windows?

If that were true, we wouldn't have the songs in side 2 of Power Windows (well, 3 out of 4, anyway).

#58 losingit2k

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:58 PM

View PostAncient Ways, on 17 August 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Whatever you want to delete is always a song someone out there likes.  Most people seem to dislike the larger bowl from  SnA but it is one of my faves.  I say leave it be.

The Larger Bowl isn't one of my favorites off S & A but I wouldn't replace it. Good News First holds that honor!

#59 Mr. JD

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:22 PM

HYF is perfect the way it is. It's my favorite Rush album. I couldn't imagine it any other way.

#60 circumstantial tree

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:42 PM

View Postjohndyar, on 18 August 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

HYF is perfect the way it is. It's my favorite Rush album. I couldn't imagine it any other way.
Amen!




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