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Hold Your Fire: the directors' cuts?


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Poll: Hold Your Fire or Fire away (36 member(s) have cast votes)

If HYF had been limited to 22'30" per side, would it have been perfect?

  1. Nah, I wouldn't like it anyway. (4 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. No way, José Feliciano, leave it the way it is! (24 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. Absolutely. See my track list is in the comments section. (8 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#21 bathory

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:47 PM

View Postcircumstantial tree, on 15 August 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

It's my fave album and I like it the way it is. I'm glad it had ten songs on it. When I first bought it, seeing them break from the 8 song format was great, so I couldn't wait to hear extra tunes.

one great thing about rush - everyone's got a different favorite

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#22 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

Look at it this way:
Imagine we are pre-compact disc and the band are releasing a single vinyl for Hold Your Fire that will follow the model of every album which preceded it, which is less than 22 minutes per side.

So in order to compile a selection of songs for this album, you have no other choice but to remove two songs to fit the album. You could remove one from each side and leave the running order as is, or you could remove two from one side and move one of the tracks to the other side.

You might think this is a stupid game. Fine. But if you are like me and adore about 80 percent of the record, then you could play with the idea.

LedRush mentioned something here...

View PostLedRush, on 15 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Second, even most of the songs I don't like still have value to me.  I'd not be happy to even see the 3 songs I reference above not on the album.
...which has to do with why I haven't voted on my own poll yet: I am having trouble choosing the two songs to remove because there are elements of three that I like and I'm trying to decide which has the least redeeming qualities (in my opinion/for my taste), in that regard.

It's just fun and games folks. This doesn't change reality.

#23 LedRush

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

View PostGed Lent, on 15 August 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Look at it this way:
Imagine we are pre-compact disc and the band are releasing a single vinyl for Hold Your Fire that will follow the model of every album which preceded it, which is less than 22 minutes per side.

So in order to compile a selection of songs for this album, you have no other choice but to remove two songs to fit the album. You could remove one from each side and leave the running order as is, or you could remove two from one side and move one of the tracks to the other side.

You might think this is a stupid game. Fine. But if you are like me and adore about 80 percent of the record, then you could play with the idea.

LedRush mentioned something here...

View PostLedRush, on 15 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Second, even most of the songs I don't like still have value to me.  I'd not be happy to even see the 3 songs I reference above not on the album.
...which has to do with why I haven't voted on my own poll yet: I am having trouble choosing the two songs to remove because there are elements of three that I like and I'm trying to decide which has the least redeeming qualities (in my opinion/for my taste), in that regard.

It's just fun and games folks. This doesn't change reality.

Remove Lock and Key and Highwater, and move Prime Mover behind Mission, which now opens side 2.

#24 Cyclonus X-1

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

All right, I'll change up the running order while I'm doing my editing.

Side 1
Force Ten
Open Secrets
Tai Shan
Lock and Key

Side 2
Time Stand Still
High Water
Second Nature
Mission

It's way too soft and loungy, but it's like that even when the junk I cut is included.  It's a Hold Your Fire I like a little more on the whole, and I wouldn't care if no one else would bother to listen past track two.

#25 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

View PostLedRush, on 15 August 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Remove Lock and Key and Highwater, and move Prime Mover behind Mission, which now opens side 2.

Now we're talking! And I do think that is an improvement of sorts. Actually, I'm stuck between Lock and Key and another song and have somehow convinced myself that without one of them, the other 'll sound grand.

I'm gonna keep High Water, though. It just has this effect on me. :blush:

#26 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostCyclonus X-1, on 15 August 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

All right, I'll change up the running order while I'm doing my editing.

Side 1
Force Ten
Open Secrets
Tai Shan
Lock and Key

Side 2
Time Stand Still
High Water
Second Nature
Mission

It's way too soft and loungy, but it's like that even when the junk I cut is included.  It's a Hold Your Fire I like a little more on the whole, and I wouldn't care if no one else would bother to listen past track two.
I like the one of the songs you removed. Or—that is—I don't one of them. Oh yeah, same difference. I'm actually surprised that someone has chosen Prime Mover for the axe. Oh, well. It's your record.

#27 Cyclonus X-1

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:54 PM

View PostGed Lent, on 15 August 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

View PostCyclonus X-1, on 15 August 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

All right, I'll change up the running order while I'm doing my editing.

Side 1
Force Ten
Open Secrets
Tai Shan
Lock and Key

Side 2
Time Stand Still
High Water
Second Nature
Mission

It's way too soft and loungy, but it's like that even when the junk I cut is included.  It's a Hold Your Fire I like a little more on the whole, and I wouldn't care if no one else would bother to listen past track two.
I like the one of the songs you removed. Or—that is—I don't one of them. Oh yeah, same difference. I'm actually surprised that someone has chosen Prime Mover for the axe. Oh, well. It's your record.

It's interesting to see what other people's omissions would do to our own impressions of the record.  Hold Your Fire would plummet in my Rush album rankings if Lock and Key were cut.

#28 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostCyclonus X-1, on 15 August 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It's interesting to see what other people's omissions would do to our own impressions of the record.  Hold Your Fire would plummet in my Rush album rankings if Lock and Key were cut.
For me, it's between Lock and Key and one that you omitted. They seem like twins and I can't decide which has elements I like more. I figure if I'm gonna start this discussion, I gotta listen to both versions to see which flows best.

#29 rushgoober

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:56 PM

Just hack off those last two songs at the end and you have a perfect damn album. :yes:

#30 GeddyLeeRoth

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:53 PM

View PostCyclonus X-1, on 15 August 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'd have been happier with the record had it not included Turn the Page and Prime Mover.

They could've written the songs and learned from them without including them, thus making me happy and not sacrificing any beneficial learning experiences.  Doesn't matter what fans of those songs think, of course.
O.M.F.G. Surely you mean Tai Shan and Highwater? Or maybe even Tai Shan and Second Nature? WTF? Seriously? Turn The Page is CLEARLY one of the best songs on the album, and Prime Mover is pretty killer too. Lay down the pipe, sir, and back away...

#31 losingit2k

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:24 PM

HYF has and will always be one of my favorite RUSH album. Geddy's voice has never sounded cleaner. The writing was superb! The mix was incredible as was their playing. Alex's has some of the best leads he's ever played on this album. Usually over great little bass parts by Geddy of course. NOT THAT SAID, Were there some songs that were weaker than most? (Tai Shan) Perhaps! But that was RUSH experimenting and I am very glad they recorded it. I actually like the weaker songs on HYF better than the Weaker songs on CP. Yeah, I said it! I went there! Either Second Nature or Tai Shan are better written songs than Speed of Love! :codger: But I'll play!     Side 1
Force Ten
Time Stand Still
Second Nature
Prime Mover

Side 2
Lock And Key
Open Secrets
Mission
Turn the Page

Edited by losingit2k, 15 August 2013 - 11:36 PM.


#32 Spindrift82

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:22 AM

It's one of their best albums, IMO.

#33 Pause Rewind Replay

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:34 AM

No, it's fine as is.  I personally don't like Tai Shan, but to get both sides under 22:30 would require taking out 2 songs, and there isn't another song I'd want to do without.  And besides, whichever song(s) I'd leave off undoubtedly would be someone else's personal gem.

#34 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 04:49 AM

View Postrushgoober, on 15 August 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Just hack off those last two songs at the end and you have a perfect damn album. :yes:

It's not exactly what I'd do, but I liked anyone who's played anyway. So are you saying that you'd move Prime Mover over to open side 2?

#35 rushgoober

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:33 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 16 August 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

View Postrushgoober, on 15 August 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Just hack off those last two songs at the end and you have a perfect damn album. :yes:

It's not exactly what I'd do, but I liked anyone who's played anyway. So are you saying that you'd move Prime Mover over to open side 2?

Prime Mover would be an excellent choice to END the album with, AND it happens to be my favorite song on the album! :cheers:

One advantage of having the two bad songs on the album at the end, however, is I never need to hit the skip button.  The album is just over after the first 8 songs. ;)

Edited by rushgoober, 16 August 2013 - 06:56 AM.


#36 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:51 AM

Posted Image
Interesting overlaps and utter divergences in taste here.

#37 losingit2k

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 16 August 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Posted Image
Interesting overlaps and utter divergences in taste here.

That's pretty cool dude!

:rush: :haz: :rush:

#38 Tombstone Mountain

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:22 AM

View PostLedRush, on 15 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 15 August 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

View PostTombstone Mountain, on 15 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

yeah missteps can lead to greater missteps...take Presto for example
imho, RTB to Counterparts supports my earlier post. And I can say the same about S&A to CA

I'll never understand all the RTB hate by hard core Rush fans.  RTB sold about a million more records than presto, winning back old fans scared away by the synth era and getting a whole new generation into Rush.  It sold about as much as CP and Presto combined, and for good reason.  Now, the sound advancement in CP was great, but I don't think that has anything to do with RTB's "failures" and has more to do with the gradual movement back to a sound fit for a trio.
I agree...RTB has some fantastic cuts...and it's playful as well. Bass sounds awesome

#39 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:35 AM

View Postlosingit2k, on 16 August 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

That's pretty cool dude!

:rush: :haz: :rush:
Thanks! I forgot rushgoober, so I hope this is right...
Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Ged Lent's sis, 16 August 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#40 circumstantial tree

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:44 PM

You could make mine like those but still put the other two songs on them and then in parentheses (Bonus cut) ;)




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