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#41 H. P. L.

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:36 AM

I dunno gangster, I'm a guy (a married guy at that), and from a different country, so I might end up sticking both my feet in my mouth.
Still, reading your opening rant, I couldn't help but notice that some of the things you say are just - forgive me to say this - garbage you're still carrying with you.
You did not get the proposal you always dreamt about? And you're still thinking about that? Can't you just leave it behind? Why are you still thinking about it? Regret is just poison. It did not go the way you expected? Still, that's the way it went. That's the way you carry it with you. It's the meaning you give it. Try to think that someone else might cherish it as a funny, precious memory. "Of all things, when he gave the ring the dog had to go all out... ahahahahah!" I can think of a lot of people that would go about it this way.
The reserved hotels during honeymoon: stop carry that weight! You should have dealt with it on due time. Now it's too late.

Forgive me to say this, but it seems to me you are looking back at you memories and crying that they are not snippets from a Barbie movie. That's the wrong way to go about it. You cannot change events. But you can change the way you feel about those events. You can change the meaning you give to them. Now I'm not saying you should go all cherishing them. Stil, you can stop them from hurting you.  I'm 43 and I'm still fighting with memories from primary school.

I'm not going into the question wheter you should or shouldn't divorce, and in NO WAY am I saying you might be at fault: you aren't. But stil, you carry a lot of poison that's bad FOR YOURSELF. Never mind your marriage. It would be bad even if you were alone. It won't let you free even if you start anew.

I hope I could give you an unbiased PoW.
And now some words from Pete Townshend: "I have to be careful not to preach..."

EDIT: Oh, and there are SO much better snacks than french fries!! ;)

Edited by H. P. L., 16 July 2013 - 04:39 AM.


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#42 Blue J

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:41 AM

Wow...that was all pretty cold, HPL.

I'm a man, and I can totally understand where she's coming from. These things aren't ancient history; most (if not all) of the things she described are all from within the past year- as she said, the marriage is only nine months old.

#43 Maverick

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostBlue J, on 16 July 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Wow...that was all pretty cold, HPL.

I'm a man, and I can totally understand where she's coming from. These things aren't ancient history; most (if not all) of the things she described are all from within the past year- as she said, the marriage is only nine months old.

I don't think he was being cold, just being real.  Big moments in our lives rarely go as perfectly as we imagined they would based on everything we see and hear about them while we are growing up.  Proposals, weddings, honeymoons are all huge things in people's lives, and most people are aware of these occurrences from a very young age.  They see them on TV and in movies, and read about them in books.  But those are, for the most part, fictions and fantasies.  I would even venture to say that a lot of the 'real" accounts that we hear of these events are glossed over by the participants to highlight the best parts and smooth over, or totally remove, the rough spots.  While it makes for a good story, it can be extremely misleading as to what one can truly expect.

I have no idea what ideas gangsterfurious had about what these moments would be like.  But I do think it is good to know that there is usually always a gap between what you imagined it would be like, and what it actually turned out to be.

Having said this, it is important to point out there there is much in what she wrote in the OP that I found to be really bad behavior that she has had to endure, particularly the comments about her weight, and how he says it makes her look, and feel, to him.  That shit is just mean, and when people say stuff like that, they know exactly what they are saying and why they are saying it.  And if they claim they didn't realize that it would hurt feelings, I'd have to say they are lying.

Edited by Sheldon Cooper, 16 July 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#44 gangsterfurious

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:28 AM

View PostH. P. L., on 16 July 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I dunno gangster, I'm a guy (a married guy at that), and from a different country, so I might end up sticking both my feet in my mouth.
Still, reading your opening rant, I couldn't help but notice that some of the things you say are just - forgive me to say this - garbage you're still carrying with you.
You did not get the proposal you always dreamt about? And you're still thinking about that? Can't you just leave it behind? Why are you still thinking about it? Regret is just poison. It did not go the way you expected? Still, that's the way it went. That's the way you carry it with you. It's the meaning you give it. Try to think that someone else might cherish it as a funny, precious memory. "Of all things, when he gave the ring the dog had to go all out... ahahahahah!" I can think of a lot of people that would go about it this way.
The reserved hotels during honeymoon: stop carry that weight! You should have dealt with it on due time. Now it's too late.

Forgive me to say this, but it seems to me you are looking back at you memories and crying that they are not snippets from a Barbie movie. That's the wrong way to go about it. You cannot change events. But you can change the way you feel about those events. You can change the meaning you give to them. Now I'm not saying you should go all cherishing them. Stil, you can stop them from hurting you.  I'm 43 and I'm still fighting with memories from primary school.

I'm not going into the question wheter you should or shouldn't divorce, and in NO WAY am I saying you might be at fault: you aren't. But stil, you carry a lot of poison that's bad FOR YOURSELF. Never mind your marriage. It would be bad even if you were alone. It won't let you free even if you start anew.

I hope I could give you an unbiased PoW.
And now some words from Pete Townshend: "I have to be careful not to preach..."

EDIT: Oh, and there are SO much better snacks than french fries!! ;)

OK so I obviously need to clarify some things regarding the proposal.

First off. I had no ideas, no dreams, nothing pre-planned, or any thoughts about how it "should" go. See, I used to work in jewelry and I've sold, sized, and serviced probably thousands of engagement rings and what I do know is that the majority of my customers were excited and had planned something special. So I have to ask "Why was I not worth it for him to plan something special?" But whatever, I still said yes, so I take responsibility.

I don't want a "Barbie" movie and I don't sit and cry over things not going Hollywood-style in my life. I've survived homelessness, missing years of school because we moved around too much, an alcoholic father, two sexual assaults, a boyfriend that used to beat me, etc... I don't have any misconceptions about how life goes. I just thought, hey you know, if this person says he's in love with me maybe he'd put some effort into a few things.

You mention the honeymoon hotels as if I'm just holding onto something to be bitter but let me ask you this. Say you planned something for months with another person, you were so excited about it and you were pretty sure you were both clear on the meaning of it, only to have this person marry you, humiliate you, and then not even touch you? Can you now see why I'm upset and concerned?

Edited by gangsterfurious, 16 July 2013 - 10:30 AM.


#45 Maverick

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:33 AM

View Postgangsterfurious, on 16 July 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

View PostH. P. L., on 16 July 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I dunno gangster, I'm a guy (a married guy at that), and from a different country, so I might end up sticking both my feet in my mouth.
Still, reading your opening rant, I couldn't help but notice that some of the things you say are just - forgive me to say this - garbage you're still carrying with you.
You did not get the proposal you always dreamt about? And you're still thinking about that? Can't you just leave it behind? Why are you still thinking about it? Regret is just poison. It did not go the way you expected? Still, that's the way it went. That's the way you carry it with you. It's the meaning you give it. Try to think that someone else might cherish it as a funny, precious memory. "Of all things, when he gave the ring the dog had to go all out... ahahahahah!" I can think of a lot of people that would go about it this way.
The reserved hotels during honeymoon: stop carry that weight! You should have dealt with it on due time. Now it's too late.

Forgive me to say this, but it seems to me you are looking back at you memories and crying that they are not snippets from a Barbie movie. That's the wrong way to go about it. You cannot change events. But you can change the way you feel about those events. You can change the meaning you give to them. Now I'm not saying you should go all cherishing them. Stil, you can stop them from hurting you.  I'm 43 and I'm still fighting with memories from primary school.

I'm not going into the question wheter you should or shouldn't divorce, and in NO WAY am I saying you might be at fault: you aren't. But stil, you carry a lot of poison that's bad FOR YOURSELF. Never mind your marriage. It would be bad even if you were alone. It won't let you free even if you start anew.

I hope I could give you an unbiased PoW.
And now some words from Pete Townshend: "I have to be careful not to preach..."

EDIT: Oh, and there are SO much better snacks than french fries!! ;)
You mention the honeymoon hotels as if I'm just holding onto something to be bitter but let me ask you this. Say you planned something for months with another person, you were so excited about it and you were pretty sure you were both clear on the meaning of it, only to have this person marry you, humiliate you, and then not even touch you? Can you now see why I'm upset and concerned?

These are not good signs.

#46 H. P. L.

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

View Postgangsterfurious, on 16 July 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

View PostH. P. L., on 16 July 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I dunno gangster, I'm a guy (a married guy at that), and from a different country, so I might end up sticking both my feet in my mouth.
Still, reading your opening rant, I couldn't help but notice that some of the things you say are just - forgive me to say this - garbage you're still carrying with you.
You did not get the proposal you always dreamt about? And you're still thinking about that? Can't you just leave it behind? Why are you still thinking about it? Regret is just poison. It did not go the way you expected? Still, that's the way it went. That's the way you carry it with you. It's the meaning you give it. Try to think that someone else might cherish it as a funny, precious memory. "Of all things, when he gave the ring the dog had to go all out... ahahahahah!" I can think of a lot of people that would go about it this way.
The reserved hotels during honeymoon: stop carry that weight! You should have dealt with it on due time. Now it's too late.

Forgive me to say this, but it seems to me you are looking back at you memories and crying that they are not snippets from a Barbie movie. That's the wrong way to go about it. You cannot change events. But you can change the way you feel about those events. You can change the meaning you give to them. Now I'm not saying you should go all cherishing them. Stil, you can stop them from hurting you.  I'm 43 and I'm still fighting with memories from primary school.

I'm not going into the question wheter you should or shouldn't divorce, and in NO WAY am I saying you might be at fault: you aren't. But stil, you carry a lot of poison that's bad FOR YOURSELF. Never mind your marriage. It would be bad even if you were alone. It won't let you free even if you start anew.

I hope I could give you an unbiased PoW.
And now some words from Pete Townshend: "I have to be careful not to preach..."

EDIT: Oh, and there are SO much better snacks than french fries!! ;)

OK so I obviously need to clarify some things regarding the proposal.

First off. I had no ideas, no dreams, nothing pre-planned, or any thoughts about how it "should" go. See, I used to work in jewelry and I've sold, sized, and serviced probably thousands of engagement rings and what I do know is that the majority of my customers were excited and had planned something special. So I have to ask "Why was I not worth it for him to plan something special?" But whatever, I still said yes, so I take responsibility.

I don't want a "Barbie" movie and I don't sit and cry over things not going Hollywood-style in my life. I've survived homelessness, missing years of school because we moved around too much, an alcoholic father, two sexual assaults, a boyfriend that used to beat me, etc... I don't have any misconceptions about how life goes. I just thought, hey you know, if this person says he's in love with me maybe he'd put some effort into a few things.

You mention the honeymoon hotels as if I'm just holding onto something to be bitter but let me ask you this. Say you planned something for months with another person, you were so excited about it and you were pretty sure you were both clear on the meaning of it, only to have this person marry you, humiliate you, and then not even touch you? Can you now see why I'm upset and concerned?

Thanks for the clarification.
Let me say beforehand that I never meant, in any way, to go "smarter than thou" in my reply. I was just reacting to what you wrote and the way you wrote it.
After reading your last post, it's clear there's a power play going on. This puts a totally different perspective over the "art by his friends" post of sometime ago.

#47 Principled Man

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostBlue J, on 16 July 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Wow...that was all pretty cold, HPL.

I'm a man, and I can totally understand where she's coming from. These things aren't ancient history; most (if not all) of the things she described are all from within the past year- as she said, the marriage is only nine months old.

I agree.  It's perfectly reasonable for her to expect her husband to make an effort.  I see no attempt to make a "Barbie movie" here.  I do see a guy who tends to belittle his marriage.....as if it's not all that important.  The worst thing anyone can do is take the other for granted.  






#48 Rhyta

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:30 AM

You mention the honeymoon hotels as if I'm just holding onto something to be bitter but let me ask you this. Say you planned something for months with another person, you were so excited about it and you were pretty sure you were both clear on the meaning of it, only to have this person marry you, humiliate you, and then not even touch you? Can you now see why I'm upset and concerned?

This is a big deal and I completely agree with you being hurt and disappointed.  No one should belittle your feelings, it isn't like this is ancient history.   It is hard to find out that the person you married isn't acting like person you fell in love with and that is a big jolt to the heart. :(   Take care of yourself and do what you think is best but don't let yourself be guilted into doing something that is not good for you. :rose:

#49 The Analog Grownup

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:28 PM

I don't get him. He marries you, he humiliates you and won't touch you? I mean, I have taken someone for granted once that I shouldn't have, but this is just ridiculous.

I wish I could chime in with some "wisdom" since I'm a guy, but this just leaves me perplexed and shaking my head in disbelief.

:sigh:

#50 anima

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:24 PM

I get the impression that before you were married, he realised he needed to make an effort for you, but now he has the impression that having made the commitment of marriage is enough effort in its own right. And that's just not enough.

There may be some issues of personal space here - how much time you each need completely alone, alone as a couple, wih friends separately or as a couple - can you get him to talk about this? It is more of an issue as I think you put more intensity and energy into all your experiences than he does (e.g. after a couple of years you're more passionate about Rush than he's ever been - same happened to me this year - I feel like a new religious convert!).

Have you both moved a long way from other friends? Does he have friends and other interests?

Hope this is some help - ignore all this if it isn't. We had a rough first year and I really thought a few times I had made a mistake getting married. But we've now been married 21 years and I wouldn't seriously want to be with anyone else (even if I have put a pic of Geddy on the bedroom wall).

#51 ILSnwdog

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostSheldon Cooper, on 16 July 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

Big moments in our lives rarely go as perfectly as we imagined they would based on everything we see and hear about them while we are growing up.  Proposals, weddings, honeymoons are all huge things in people's lives, and most people are aware of these occurrences from a very young age.  They see them on TV and in movies, and read about them in books.  But those are, for the most part, fictions and fantasies.  I would even venture to say that a lot of the 'real" accounts that we hear of these events are glossed over by the participants to highlight the best parts and smooth over, or totally remove, the rough spots.  While it makes for a good story, it can be extremely misleading as to what one can truly expect.
This reminds me of when I proposed to my wife.  I wanted to do something that stood out, but my wife is painfully shy, so no proposing at a baseball game or anything.  Well, her parents were taking us with them to Sanibel Island Florida over Thanksgiving.  I remembered reading that Sanibel has great beaches for sand combing.  Tons of sea shells. I thought it would be cool to put a ring in a shell and give her the shell. I told her Mom my plans and she got all excited, and insisted that I let her make the shell for me.  She had this tiny Conch shell, and she glued little satin straps to the inside that I could tie the ring too.  

So fast forward...we arrive at the resort in Sanibel.  Our flight was delayed so it was dark when we got to the resort.  I wanted to get this done so we could celebrate the whole trip.  I ask my wife to show me the resort and the beach.  She says we should go eat first.  Everyone knows what is going to happen, so they force her to show me around.  We get out to the beach.  I'm so anxious that I take maybe five steps before I bend over and fake like I'm picking up a shell.  I yell to my wife "Hey...look at this cool shell."  My wife sees the ribbon blowing in the breeze and yells "that's garbage.  Throw it away."  I try to show her the shell, but she knows I'm a big practical joker, and she moves away from me and yells again "get away from me with that garbage."  I realize that she isn't going to let me catch her, so I drop to one knee, hold up the shell, and I ask her to marry me.  She was so dumbfounded that all she could say was "OH MY GOD!"  I told her that an answer would be nice, and of course she said yes.  :)  It's a really funny story, but it didn't really go down like I expected.


And Gangster.  I've seen your picture that WCM posted.  You're dead sexy. Your husband is a very lucky guy. If he doesn't see that, he's f***ing nuts.  If you are making sure that you are being respectful, and not being bossy, and most of all COMMUNICATING HOW YOU ARE FEELING, and your husband isn't making any effort to change based on your direction...then maybe it's time to cut bait.  Communication is the key.  Men are not mind readers.  I have to remind my wife of this incessantly...even after 11 years of marriage. :)  Communication and respect...if you are giving both and not getting it in return, then you deserve better.  Good luck to you.  :hug2:

#52 Babycat

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:38 PM

View Posttreeduck, on 14 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 14 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Still thinking of you.  :hug2:
Babycat is going to illegally marry a pack of tom cats and become the ultimate crazy cat lady! :pussy:

Haha!  :LMAO:  !

#53 treeduck

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostBabycat, on 16 August 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

View Posttreeduck, on 14 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 14 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Still thinking of you.  :hug2:
Babycat is going to illegally marry a pack of tom cats and become the ultimate crazy cat lady! :pussy:

Haha!  :LMAO:  !

Hello Baby! :smoke:

#54 Babycat

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:42 PM

View Posttreeduck, on 16 August 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 16 August 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

View Posttreeduck, on 14 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 14 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Still thinking of you.  :hug2:
Babycat is going to illegally marry a pack of tom cats and become the ultimate crazy cat lady! :pussy:

Haha!  :LMAO:  !

Hello Baby! :smoke:

Hello Duck!  :haz:

#55 treeduck

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostBabycat, on 16 August 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

View Posttreeduck, on 16 August 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 16 August 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

View Posttreeduck, on 14 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

View PostBabycat, on 14 July 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Still thinking of you.  :hug2:
Babycat is going to illegally marry a pack of tom cats and become the ultimate crazy cat lady! :pussy:

Haha!  :LMAO:  !

Hello Baby! :smoke:

Hello Duck!  :haz:

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#56 losingit2k

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:58 PM

Sorry to hear you are going through such a bad time in your life. Usually things come down to three things (Sex, Money or Religion) and if those aren't the issues you need to get out of there. To some men its all about the chase! Once that objective is achieved there's nothing left. Hence the reason he seems to respond every time you guys seek council or you ask for space. I think this might be the issue at hand.  So let the Chase begin!

:outtahere:

#57 missionman

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:52 PM

22 years married and running!!! I still can't find the happy part. That's a DEEP subject...whatever...

#58 udanax

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:44 AM

I'm 22, and just got engaged (No Treeduck you cannot be my bridesmaid :P) Anywho, I guess your engagement story just kind of made me laugh. My fiance and I had one of our biggest fights on the night he proposed. I wouldn't take the proposal back for the world though.

I guess I just recommend giving it time (Not that a recommendation from someone you don't know, with less experience than you, really means anything).

Find a marriage counselor. If he won't go with you, go alone.

Pray, God answers prayers.

Take your time with this one.

#59 gangsterfurious

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

I guess I should give you guys an update.

Earlier this year when Rush tickets went on sale we bought seats in Salt Lake and Denver and decided to road trip. And I used to live in Utah so we decided to spend a few days there before the show so that I could show him around and meet up with some old friends, etc...

The day of our trip I woke up at 5:30, worked from 7-3, we left for Park City at 4 pm and arrived there at 5:30 am the next morning SERIOUSLY talking about getting a divorce and screaming at each other. Yeah, so much fun.

Anyway, we got a few hours of sleep and decided that we'd still go do the things we planned in Park City so we found ourselves locked in a gondola together, going up one of the mountains and trying to hug it out even though I'm pretty sure we both wanted to push the other person out of the gondola and down the mountain. I made a smartass remark on Facebook about how we were ready for our divorce and a bunch of married friends and family members chimed in with their road trip stories, each and every one of them said it was the ultimate test of a marriage. So I calmed down a bit and thought "OK well, if EVERYBODY is saying this is normal and the majority of them are still married, maybe we can survive this." And I showed him their remarks and it calmed him down as well to know that we weren't alone in our experience.

During our trip we also met up with a few of my friends in Utah that I've known from anywhere from 12-16 years and we ended up talking about marriage and relationships and they gave us a lot of insight to what works and what doesn't, etc...

But what really helped is that when I was at my church bookstore in Salt Lake I saw this book called "The 5 Love Languages" and I really felt like I had to buy it so I did and then two nights later we were in Denver at the bar of the Hotel Monaco and we met this guy Darren, and he started talking to us and somehow marriage came up and he mentioned the book to us and said that we HAD to read it because it saved his marriage and made everything better because he and his wife began to understand each other's needs and personalities better.

Anyway, long story short, we ended up chatting with him for about four hours - between meeting Geddy's keyboard tech Tony, another Rush friend I knew from Facebook, and Gerry and Mario from the string section (crazy night, I know) and all the while the band Cheep Trick was in the bar as well - and it helped us A LOT.

Also, when we were in Salt Lake I surprised my husband with minor league baseball tickets to see the SL Bees play the Iowa Cubs (he is from Iowa and LOVES the Chicago Cubbies). During the game I got up to go get some dinner and unbeknownst to me my husband went to go get another beer. When I came back with my food his eyes were red and watery and at first I was thinking "Geeze, the beer here is only 3.5% and he's only starting his second, he can't be that drunk yet." When I sat down he told me he had been crying because after he came back to his seat he looked down and noticed his wedding ring was missing and hadn't felt it fall off or anything so he ran back up to where he had bought his beer, and into the team store and was panicking until the woman at the beer cart found it on the ground by the drain.

He also apologized to me about not proposing to me like he wanted to, without me bringing it up. It made things better, he said he was just really excited to give me the ring and I know he was being sincere.

So yeah, things aren't perfect but they are a lot better. We had a lot of help from my friends and that man that we met in Denver I think our trip to see Rush may have saved us, we'll see. :)

Edited by gangsterfurious, 24 August 2013 - 10:26 AM.


#60 Lorraine

Lorraine

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:45 AM

Gangster, that's good news!   From what you have written, it sounds to me like your husband truly loves you.  Be grateful for that.  Just be patient while you iron out the "kinks" :lol:  in your marriage.

All in all, it sounds like you had quite a memorable trip.

And, lest we forget:
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