The VIKINGS thread

[Del_Duio]

I'm going to have to download season 1 tonight. I read this whole thread and now I'm very interested.

 

Yeah man, I never gave it a second glance before very recently and got into Season 1 when they were playing the show marathon-style one Friday. VERY good, I was impressed.

 

A small word of warning, maybe, is that Season 1 seems to be very friggin gross in places. Moreso than the rest of the show was been so far.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Really looking forward to tonight's episode . . .

 

Can't wait to see what Ragnar decides to do with his remaining force. I don't think he is just going to admit defeat and give up on this raid. Of course, he and others will have to nurse their wounds for awhile . . .

 

Also, I am looking forward to seeing further developments in the Mercia-Wessex dispute.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Hmmmm . . . well, that was interesting . . .

[Aikenrooster]

Hmmmm . . . well, that was interesting . . .

Yes, it seems that Lagertha, Rollo, and even Ragnar's son have assumed leadership roles. Ragnar is, admittedly, about to die, of internal injuries, so who will become the next king/queen. They all have claims:

 

Ragnar's son: Fearless, natural heir, but lacks wisdom and experience. Probably wouldn't last long as king.

Lagertha: Fearless, warrior, rightful heir to the throne, IMHO, and was already queen of some part of Scandanavia, but was usurped while gone away fighting.

Rollo: Fearless, warrior, seems to have leadership. High claim to throne, IMHO.

Floki: An architect, loyal, and highly religious; given Ragnar's tolerance of Christianity and baptism, his religious vociferousness would allow him to make a claim to the throne, but he is NOT a leader and won't be king.

Ragnar's wife: Also has a claim to the throne, as Ragnar's wife, but we don't know a whole lot about her character, so it would be surprising if she assumed the throne.

 

Also, the writer's could introduce magic into the script, allow god to heal Ragnar, and he remain king.

[J2112YYZ]

I'm pretty sure as the son of the king Bjorn Ironside is the rightful heir to the throne when his father dies. Isn't that how it normally worked backed then? The oldest son inherits the crown from the father even if he's young and inexperienced. They just let the king make his mistakes and learn as he goes. Plus, the king usually has a close group of advisers. If Rollo and Lagertha are part of that, they will certainly help steer Bjorn in the right direction.

 

It will still be a bit of a surprise if Ragnar dies though. I know he's in bad condition but now that he's been baptized perhaps a "miracle" will happen. I'm still not confident that they will take Paris though. The French had some really nice devices back then. That huge rolling thing with the spikes that they sent down that corridor, just brutal.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

That huge rolling thing with the spikes that they sent down that corridor, just brutal.

 

Yep, it was.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The French had some really nice devices back then.

 

Ever seen this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151137/ ?

 

First part of it gets into some really brutal battle scenes, complete with the effects of unusual weapons used in medieval siege warfare (attacking and defending). Exceptionally nasty and brutal stuff. Of course, that movie is set several centuries later than the one depicted in The Vikings . . .

Edited April 21, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Dread Pirate Robert]

It will still be a bit of a surprise if Ragnar dies though.

 

I agree with Ayn.

 

Ragnar is not long for this world. Should have laid his ass down and rested for long days and weeks and even months instead of hopping all over the place like his wounds were no big deal.

 

Another reason I say that: with the introduction of the character Alfred, (currently just a baby), I suspect that the writers intend to propel the history forward rather rapidly . . .even though Ragnar's death here and now would contradict the legends about it, which I believe involve being thrown in a snakepit in Northumbria by king Aelle.

 

Then again, that is just a hunch of mine about which way the show will go. I may of course be wrong.

 

Perhaps a "miracle" will save Ragnar after all. We shall see.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Del_Duio]

That huge rolling thing with the spikes that they sent down that corridor, just brutal.

 

Yep, it was.

 

Yeah that was borderline disgusting hahaha!

 

Awesome episode, with a huge OH NO HE DI'INT!!! moment at the end. Can't wait for Thursday, damn the season's over already!!!

[Del_Duio]

It will still be a bit of a surprise if Ragnar dies though.

Perhaps a "miracle" will save Ragnar after all. We shall see.

 

Well Bjorn survived a huge fall and 2 arrows to the chest so anything's possible. As much as I like the characters as a whole though, the show won't be half as good if Ragnar's not in it anymore. That dude's badass incarnate.

[Del_Duio]

Also, the writer's could introduce magic into the script, allow god to heal Ragnar, and he remain king.

 

You might be onto something, after all they spent 3 episodes with that mystery man / Odin guy showing up back at the village and it couldn't have been just to kill off Siggy or stop lil' Ivan's pain (I think).

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The History channel was showing the episodes from this season yesterday, one after another. I watched parts of some of them again.

 

One thing that struck me this time around, in light of new information, were the prophecies made by the seer to Ragnar and Rollo.

 

When Ragnar asked him if he would conquer Paris, the seer replied something like: "Paris shall be conquered not by the living, but by the dead." Ragnar smiled at that and repeated "by the dead" aloud. The seer also told him: "the Bear shall marry a Princess," chuckled a bit, and then added: "which is not good for you, King Ragnar" (I don't claim these are exact quotes, just paraphrasing from memory)

 

 

To Rollo, the seer said the same thing about the bear marrying a princess, and that if Rollo knew what the gods had in store for him he would go dance naked on the beach. He said something else, but I forget exactly what. I had no idea what it meant.

 

Anyway, I think Rollo is the bear, (hey, he is a Bear Among Men, after all) and the princess is the french princess, the apparently fearless daughter of the french king. There seemed to me, the first time I saw the episode with the Viking attempt to scale the walls of Paris with Floki's contraptions, that there was solid natural chemistry between Rollo and the Princess, the way they stared at each other.

 

As for the dead conquering Paris, been thinking about that -- could it mean that the Vikings would overcome Paris while inspired and "led" by the memory of dead Ragnar, perhaps by some plan of Ragnar's that he told them before he died?

 

Or perhaps it means a terrible effect on the city caused by disease from all those dead bodies from the recent mass killings? In that sense, the "dead" would have conquered Paris.

 

 

BTW -- upon second viewing, the episodes which I did not really care for that much the first time around (the ones involving the weird goings on with mysterious wanderer, }were more enjoyable the second time around.

 

I watched parts of them the second time in the knowledge that they did not represent the series going downhill in quality, but simply side stories. The first time, I was worried that they meant the series had lost focus that it would not regain.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I'm pretty sure as the son of the king Bjorn Ironside is the rightful heir to the throne when his father dies. Isn't that how it normally worked backed then? The oldest son inherits the crown from the father even if he's young and inexperienced. They just let the king make his mistakes and learn as he goes. Plus, the king usually has a close group of advisers. If Rollo and Lagertha are part of that, they will certainly help steer Bjorn in the right direction.

 

 

 

Yeah, that is what I think will happen, if Ragnar croaks.

 

 

However, there would likely be some who did not approve of that, creating hostile factions.

 

Agreed with Bjorn having both Rollo and Lagertha on his team as advisors and warriors is a formidable combo.

 

As for Rollo-- he has really grown on me as a character. I depised him in the early part of the series when he was busy f***ing up everything Ragnar tried to do -- but since that time he has really developed in wisdom and strength of character, in addition to being a rampaging berserker machine on the battlefield.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Dread Pirate Robert]

. As much as I like the characters as a whole though, the show won't be half as good if Ragnar's not in it anymore.

I don't agree with that, for my own part.

 

I would keep watching.

 

I suspect the series would continue on with the same quality.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if next season started years in the future, introducing new characters like Ragnar's other sons as young adults. According to the legends, Ragnar's sons made every bit as much of a name for themselves as did their father, arguably even surpassing him. That includes Ivar the Boneless, the current little crippled baby.

 

The series has already made one such big leap in time -- when Bjorn went from being a young boy to a young man.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Aikenrooster]

The History channel was showing the episodes from this season yesterday, one after another. I watched parts of some of them again.

 

One thing that struck me this time around, in light of new information, were the prophecies made by the seer to Ragnar and Rollo.

 

When Ragnar asked him if he would conquer Paris, the seer replied something like: "Paris shall be conquered not by the living, but by the dead." Ragnar smiled at that and repeated "by the dead" aloud. The seer also told him: "the Bear shall marry a Princess," chuckled a bit, and then added: "which is not good for you, King Ragnar" (I don't claim these are exact quotes, just paraphrasing from memory)

 

 

To Rollo, the seer said the same thing about the bear marrying a princess, and that if Rollo knew what the gods had in store for him he would go dance naked on the beach. He said something else, but I forget exactly what. I had no idea what it meant.

 

Anyway, I think Rollo is the bear, (hey, he is a Bear Among Men, after all) and the princess is the french princess, the apparently fearless daughter of the french king. There seemed to me, the first time I saw the episode with the Viking attempt to scale the walls of Paris with Floki's contraptions, that there was solid natural chemistry between Rollo and the Princess, the way they stared at each other.

 

As for the dead conquering Paris, been thinking about that -- could it mean that the Vikings would overcome Paris while inspired and "led" by the memory of dead Ragnar, perhaps by some plan of Ragnar's that he told them before he died?

 

Or perhaps it means a terrible effect on the city caused by disease from all those dead bodies from the recent mass killings? In that sense, the "dead" would have conquered Paris.

 

 

BTW -- upon second viewing, the episodes which I did not really care for that much the first time around (the ones involving the weird goings on with mysterious wanderer, }were more enjoyable the second time around.

 

I watched parts of them the second time in the knowledge that they did not represent the series going downhill in quality, but simply side stories. The first time, I was worried that they meant the series had lost focus that it would not regain.

Damn, spot on. What a keen insight. You really show your historical knowledge and good general analysis as well. Well done, as usual.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The History channel was showing the episodes from this season yesterday, one after another. I watched parts of some of them again.

 

One thing that struck me this time around, in light of new information, were the prophecies made by the seer to Ragnar and Rollo.

 

When Ragnar asked him if he would conquer Paris, the seer replied something like: "Paris shall be conquered not by the living, but by the dead." Ragnar smiled at that and repeated "by the dead" aloud. The seer also told him: "the Bear shall marry a Princess," chuckled a bit, and then added: "which is not good for you, King Ragnar" (I don't claim these are exact quotes, just paraphrasing from memory)

 

 

To Rollo, the seer said the same thing about the bear marrying a princess, and that if Rollo knew what the gods had in store for him he would go dance naked on the beach. He said something else, but I forget exactly what. I had no idea what it meant.

 

Anyway, I think Rollo is the bear, (hey, he is a Bear Among Men, after all) and the princess is the french princess, the apparently fearless daughter of the french king. There seemed to me, the first time I saw the episode with the Viking attempt to scale the walls of Paris with Floki's contraptions, that there was solid natural chemistry between Rollo and the Princess, the way they stared at each other.

 

As for the dead conquering Paris, been thinking about that -- could it mean that the Vikings would overcome Paris while inspired and "led" by the memory of dead Ragnar, perhaps by some plan of Ragnar's that he told them before he died?

 

Or perhaps it means a terrible effect on the city caused by disease from all those dead bodies from the recent mass killings? In that sense, the "dead" would have conquered Paris.

 

 

BTW -- upon second viewing, the episodes which I did not really care for that much the first time around (the ones involving the weird goings on with mysterious wanderer, }were more enjoyable the second time around.

 

I watched parts of them the second time in the knowledge that they did not represent the series going downhill in quality, but simply side stories. The first time, I was worried that they meant the series had lost focus that it would not regain.

Damn, spot on. What a keen insight. You really show your historical knowledge and good general analysis as well. Well done, as usual.

 

Actually, I think my musings about the dead conquering Paris were off base. I stumbled across something today, which I had read about before but forgotten, which makes me think it means something else -- and, if so, tonight's episode should have a hell of a surprise in store for the audience. I will say no more, because if it is what I now suspect I don't want to ruin the surprise for everybody.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[J2112YYZ]

If you do some searching on the internet, you'll find that the Vikings did have a siege of Paris in the years 885-886. So, it's safe to say the current story on the show was inspired by these events. It was also cool to find that Ragnar, Bjorn, Rollo, Aslaug were all real people according to historical records. Not much is known about them since historical records weren't well kept in Scandinavia in those days. So most of what happened is not known and the TV show makes a lot of things up. Supposedly, Lagertha was a real Viking shieldmaiden but and there's a belief that most of the tales about her are fictional.

 

I was bored the other night and was reading about this stuff. I just thought I would pass it along in case anyone else found it interesting.

[Aikenrooster]

I'll come back to this thread tomorrow night, since I won't get to see the show until then.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The finale was excellent, imo.

 

Were you guys surprised when Ragnar jumped out of the coffin?

 

Just curious.

[Del_Duio]

The finale was excellent, imo.

 

Were you guys surprised when Ragnar jumped out of the coffin?

 

Just curious.

 

I actually called it, or at the very least really wanted it to happen. I'm still hoping Alistair comes back lol.

At the very end w/ Ragnar and Floki, and he let him know that he KNOWS... and then ... THE END.

 

Nooooo!!!! Coming in 2016??? God damnit, that's way too long a wait! That's after the whole football season and the playoffs! And THAT'S not even starting for months and months from now!

 

But we get to see Bjorn kick a bear's ass, and that's pretty awesome too.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The finale was excellent, imo.

 

Were you guys surprised when Ragnar jumped out of the coffin?

 

Just curious.

 

I actually called it, or at the very least really wanted it to happen. I'm still hoping Alistair comes back lol.

At the very end w/ Ragnar and Floki, and he let him know that he KNOWS... and then ... THE END.

 

Nooooo!!!! Coming in 2016??? God damnit, that's way too long a wait! That's after the whole football season and the playoffs! And THAT'S not even starting for months and months from now!

 

But we get to see Bjorn kick a bear's ass, and that's pretty awesome too.

 

In the preview clip, it looked like the bear was kicking Bjorn's ass.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

When I wrote this: "Actually, I think my musings about the dead conquering Paris were off base. I stumbled across something today, which I had read about before but forgotten, which makes me think it means something else -- and, if so, tonight's episode should have a hell of a surprise in store for the audience. I will say no more, because if it is what I now suspect I don't want to ruin the surprise for everybody", this is what I had in mind:

 

There they attacked the city of Luna. Believing it to be Rome, Hastein had his men carry him to the gate and tell the guards he was dying and wished to convert to Christianity. Once inside, he was taken to the town's church where he received the sacraments, before jumping from his stretcher and leading his men in a sack of the town. Another account has him wanting to convert before he dies and the following day feigns death. The city then lets 50 robed men come in for his burial all of which had swords under their robes. Hastein then jumps from his coffin and chops off the religious leaders heads on the way to sacking the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastein

 

Other accounts attribute this deed to Bjorn Ironside instead of Hastein.

 

Also, the viking leader Harold Hardrada pulled a similar stunt in Sicily:

10. BATTLE AT A FOURTH CASTLE.

The fourth castle which Harald came to was the greatest of all we have been speaking about. It was so strong that there was no possibility of breaking into it. They surrounded the castle, so that no supplies could get into it. When they had remained here a short time Harald fell sick, and he betook himself to his bed. He had his tent put up a little from the camp, for he found quietness and rest out of the clamour and clang of armed men. His men went usually in companies to or from him to hear his orders; and the castle people observing there was something new among the Varings, sent out spies to discover what this might mean. When the spies came back to the castle they had to tell of the illness of the commander of the Varings, and that no assault on that account had been made on the castle. A while after Harald's strength began to fail, at which his men were very melancholy and cast down; all which was news to the castle-men. At last Harald's sickness increased so rapidly that his death was expected through all the army. Thereafter the Varings went to the castle-men; told them, in a parley, of the death of their commander; and begged of the priests to grant him burial in the castle. When the castle people heard this news, there were many among them who ruled over cloisters or other great establishments within the place, and who were very eager to get the corpse for their church, knowing that upon that there would follow very rich presents. A great many priests, therefore, clothed themselves in all their robes, and went out of the castle with cross and shrine and relics and formed a beautiful procession. The Varings also made a great burial. The coffin was borne high in the air, and over it was a tent of costly linen and before it were carried many banners. Now when the corpse was brought within the castle gate the Varings set down the coffin right across the entry, fixed a bar to keep the gates open, and sounded to battle with all their trumpets, and drew their swords. The whole army of the Varings, fully armed. rushed from the camp to the assault of the castle with shout and cry; and the monks and other priests who had gone to meet the corpse and had striven with each other who should be the first to come out and take the offering at the burial, were now striving much more who should first get away from the Varings; for they killed before their feet every one who was nearest, whether clerk or unconsecrated. The Varings rummaged so well this castle that they killed all the men, pillaged everything and made an enormous booty.

http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Hardrada.html

 

Though the excerpt above does not make it clear, Harold was not actually dead, just pretending to be as a ruse.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

A question for next season: is Rollo really going to betray Ragnar again?

[Dread Pirate Robert]

The finale was excellent, imo.

 

Were you guys surprised when Ragnar jumped out of the coffin?

 

Just curious.

 

I actually called it, or at the very least really wanted it to happen.

 

Yes, the idea of Ragnar being killed off from the series was not something that most fans liked, I imagine.

 

Even suspecting how it was going to unfold, from my recent rereading of some Viking history, I still wasn't sure if Ragnar was going to die in this episode or not. I am glad he did not. I was glad to see him raise his head in that longship on the trip back so that I knew he was going to be around for next season.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Closer to the Heart

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Rollo, btw, is by this time obviously being equated to some extent with the "Rollo" (no hint in the actual histories that he was a brother of Ragnar, though) who became Robert I, first Duke of Normandy, a viking leader who was granted a considerable swath of France in the region of Normandy. The very name of "Normandy" meant something like "land of the Norman, or Northman", deriving from this historical occupation.

 

This said Robert I, born Rollo, as it so happens, was the ancestor of not only William the Conqueror who took his Normans across the English Channel to conquer England in 1066, but of all the European Monarchs, such as they are, alive today (inbred group that they are)

 

True story.