eshine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 08:27 PM) My point is...who's being "uber sensitive" here? If anyone is, it's Neil himself, and everyone who agrees with him. They are the ones who can't take any kind of dissension from their belief systems. Drawing from his own personal experience and sharing his opinions on a blog or in lyrics is not being uber-sensitive. It's called writing. I simply take issue with people demanding that he stop discussing things that make them uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
They Bow Defeated Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jan 12 2012, 08:28 PM)The bottom line is that Neil's adoption of the hip, quasi-intellectual radical atheism mindset conforms very nicely with his general elitistic sentiment and disillusionment with God/religion. He has therefore taken it upon himself, with lofty responsibility, to educate/reprogram his weak-minded, underachieving, "99%" fanbase... reminds me of this old post: Great, now we've got a thread about religion AND politics. Countdown to Sense O Clock News... 10... 9... 8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddysMullet Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jan 12 2012, 09:28 PM) The bottom line is that Neil's adoption of the hip, quasi-intellectual radical atheism mindset conforms very nicely with his general elitistic sentiment and disillusionment with God/religion. He has therefore taken it upon himself, with lofty responsibility, to educate/reprogram his weak-minded, underachieving, "99%" fanbase... reminds me of this old post: "It was my understanding that proceeds of the new book were going towards Neil's new school of philosophical thought and neurological reprogramming, named the Peart Institute for Religious Transection (PIRT)- a sort of Betty Ford clinic, if you will, for the religious-minded rush fan. "The institute will also strive to induce self-awareness among Rush fans and give them a sense of what its like to experience rational human thoughts and feelings", explains Institute founder, Professor Neil Peart". Should that not be the "Peart Educational Academy for Religious Transection" or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredtamasrule Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 We need an app to filter out Neil's gobbledygook and only show info about the new album I'm stoked about the new music....but now I'm totally convinced the whole thing is going to be one big anti-belief screed by Mr. Dawkins Hitchens Peart. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Avatar Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (eshine @ Jan 12 2012, 06:33 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 12 2012, 07:36 PM) I can't help but find it ironic that the people who get really bothered by people getting bothered are the ones who tend to really agree with Neil's views. What I find ironic is how people of "faith" become so unhinged at the very notion of it being called into question. If it can be cracked that easily, I would suggest finding a stronger foundation. As for Neil - he is not going to change direction to accomodate people who don't agree with him, or are "bothered" by the bluntness of his viewpoints. What Rush fan would want him to??? And yes - I do agree with him. Organized religion is a scourge filled with liars and hypocrites. Neil calls them out. Bravo. The bottom line is - he remains hopeful and optimistic in spite of all the lunacy. THAT is what I take from his lyrics. I didn't think you'd get it, but I had to try. And I did say other things in my post other than just what you quoted here. People's faith is cracked because someone speaks out against it? Please. You or Neil have as much chance of changing a person of faith into atheism as we have of changing you into being a believer in some way. We're just saying we find it obonxious in the song lyrics and we're saying so. That's it. Try and have a little understanding and compassion for your fellow Rush fans who don't see things the way you do... ... meh, that's what I said before. You either get it or you don't. Think we're all assholes if you need to. It doesn't have to be that way, but you're going to see things the way you see them. Edited January 13, 2012 by rushgoober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 06:43 PM)QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. Try this: Every time you hear someone on TV mention god substitute Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pound of Obscure Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 09:43 PM) QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. And this is where I start pulling away from Rush. There was no bigger fan of Peart than me. He has the right to say and believe anything he wants. Got no problem with it here. But the burr up his colon about this stuff is crossing a line that is just simply unbecoming. The guy can't open his mouth anymore without wading into it and throwing some condescending crack. His tone is increasingly inflammatory, except to those who share his angst. That's fine, its his right. But he is getting close to becoming the Bill Maher of rock. Maher was funny 20 years ago. Now he's just an angry, hateful, ****head. Worse than that, he's not funny. You have nothing to teach anyone Neil. And your apparent agenda is taking alot of fun out of being a Rush fan. Even for many who don't necessarily disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jan 12 2012, 11:23 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 09:43 PM) QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. And this is where I start pulling away from Rush. There was no bigger fan of Peart than me. He has the right to say and believe anything he wants. Got no problem with it here. But the burr up his colon about this stuff is crossing a line that is just simply unbecoming. The guy can't open his mouth anymore without wading into it and throwing some condescending crack. His tone is increasingly inflammatory, except to those who share his angst. That's fine, its his right. But he is getting close to becoming the Bill Maher of rock. Maher was funny 20 years ago. Now he's just an angry, hateful, ****head. Worse than that, he's not funny. You have nothing to teach anyone Neil. And your apparent agenda is taking alot of fun out of being a Rush fan. Even for many who don't necessarily disagree with you. I disagree. Maher was never funny. Bahahahaaa. I think the religious stuff can now be framed as a bit of a obsession. He keeps mentioning it. I dont think its the actual topic, I think its the fact that the anti-religious to Neil is like Yoko to John. Its always there, and it is beocming annoying simply because its always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 12 2012, 10:34 PM) QUOTE (eshine @ Jan 12 2012, 06:33 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 12 2012, 07:36 PM) I can't help but find it ironic that the people who get really bothered by people getting bothered are the ones who tend to really agree with Neil's views. What I find ironic is how people of "faith" become so unhinged at the very notion of it being called into question. If it can be cracked that easily, I would suggest finding a stronger foundation. As for Neil - he is not going to change direction to accomodate people who don't agree with him, or are "bothered" by the bluntness of his viewpoints. What Rush fan would want him to??? And yes - I do agree with him. Organized religion is a scourge filled with liars and hypocrites. Neil calls them out. Bravo. The bottom line is - he remains hopeful and optimistic in spite of all the lunacy. THAT is what I take from his lyrics. I didn't think you'd get it, but I had to try. And I did say other things in my post other than just what you quoted here. People's faith is cracked because someone speaks out against it? Please. You or Neil have as much chance of changing a person of faith into atheism as we have of changing you into being a believer in some way. We're just saying we find it obonxious in the song lyrics and we're saying so. That's it. Try and have a little understanding and compassion for your fellow Rush fans who don't see things the way you do... ... meh, that's what I said before. You either get it or you don't. Think we're all assholes if you need to. It doesn't have to be that way, but you're going to see things the way you see them. There is no reason for you to be so defensive, rushgoober. I'm not attacking you personally (neither is Neil) and honestly - I could care less about whatever your faith. I seriously could care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jan 12 2012, 11:23 PM) And your apparent agenda is taking alot of fun out of being a Rush fan. Even for many who don't necessarily disagree with you. How are his musings of faith on a blog, in reference to the passing of a freind and the loss of his family, taking the fun out of being a Rush fan?? What is it that you guys would like from Neil? What version of him do would be less bothersome and more fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can honestly see how people who really don't care what he thinks about religion might be getting a little tired of the subject. I get that. It's the fake piety I find so annoying. His blog was very postive - very candid, and very personal - things people complain he doesn't touch on enough - but, gasp, he mentions faith (or lack-therof) in context with the subject matter, even answering his critics regarding his "faith bashing", and low and behold, he is "attacking" all the poor, put upon Christians again - because we all know people of faith gently and quietly go about their business without ever throwing it in the face of non-believers. I mean, cmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Jan 13 2012, 12:27 AM) I can honestly see how people who really don't care what he thinks about religion might be getting a little tired of the subject. I get that. It's the fake piety I find so annoying. His blog was very postive - very candid, and very personal - things people complain he doesn't touch on enough - but, gasp, he mentions faith (or lack-therof) in context with the subject matter, even answering his critics regarding his "faith bashing", and low and behold, he is "attacking" all the poor, put upon Christians again - because we all know people of faith gently and quietly go about their business without ever throwing it in the face of non-believers. I mean, cmon. Its about him becoming a bore, not what exactly he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeminiRising79 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jan 12 2012, 11:23 PM)QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 09:43 PM) QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. And this is where I start pulling away from Rush. There was no bigger fan of Peart than me. He has the right to say and believe anything he wants. Got no problem with it here. But the burr up his colon about this stuff is crossing a line that is just simply unbecoming. The guy can't open his mouth anymore without wading into it and throwing some condescending crack. His tone is increasingly inflammatory, except to those who share his angst. That's fine, its his right. But he is getting close to becoming the Bill Maher of rock. Maher was funny 20 years ago. Now he's just an angry, hateful, ****head. Worse than that, he's not funny. You have nothing to teach anyone Neil. And your apparent agenda is taking alot of fun out of being a Rush fan. Even for many who don't necessarily disagree with you. Excellent post. Obviously spoken from the heart. I wish that Neil was only trolling us here. His mind is genuinely poisoned- and he's on the verge of running the band into the ground with his agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jan 13 2012, 12:39 AM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jan 12 2012, 11:23 PM)QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 09:43 PM) QUOTE (Rand @ Jan 12 2012, 08:53 PM) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 05:27 PM)"What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " The above is total bullshit. People talk about god and their faith all the time and rarely does anybody call them on it. Every time I watch the tv news the anchors work in a reference to god. If you look back at this thread it was someone complaining about Neil's anti religious views that started the argument. If you want to really be offended watch this: How is it bullshit? You can see it happening here. Just look back through the thread. Why does someone who speaks positively about his faith in God need to be "called on it"? Why does someone's expression of Christian faith bother you so much? Neil's position is not just pro paganism, but also virulently anti-Christian. As per your news anchor analogy, I don't think there would be any outcry if Neil simply spoke positively from a materialist, pagan viewpoint. He's gone beyond that now to where he is effectively calling all Christian Rush fans idiots. And this is where I start pulling away from Rush. There was no bigger fan of Peart than me. He has the right to say and believe anything he wants. Got no problem with it here. But the burr up his colon about this stuff is crossing a line that is just simply unbecoming. The guy can't open his mouth anymore without wading into it and throwing some condescending crack. His tone is increasingly inflammatory, except to those who share his angst. That's fine, its his right. But he is getting close to becoming the Bill Maher of rock. Maher was funny 20 years ago. Now he's just an angry, hateful, ****head. Worse than that, he's not funny. You have nothing to teach anyone Neil. And your apparent agenda is taking alot of fun out of being a Rush fan. Even for many who don't necessarily disagree with you. Excellent post. Obviously spoken from the heart. I wish that Neil was only trolling us here. His mind is genuinely poisoned- and he's on the verge of running the band into the ground with his agenda. You people crack me up. Agenda? Poisoned mind? Really? Neil is ruining the band with his religious views. LOL Leave it to a Rush fan to come to that conclusion. I guess you can always join the Petra message board. In the meantime I'll be enjoying the best Rush record in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (liddybuck01 @ Jan 13 2012, 02:44 AM) QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jan 12 2012, 08:43 AM) QUOTE (liddybuck01 @ Jan 12 2012, 10:30 PM)Neil is just doing what so many of us without religion try to do. get people to stop believing in man made story books and use some damn logic and reasoning. i, like Neil, go out of my way to make fun of Christianity. why? because it's ridiculous. "Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion." - Dalai Lama Taking that a step further, (even if you think it's ridiculous) why would you go out of your way to make fun of something that others firmly believe in? Sure, you can state your opinion but you're not doing anyone any favors by doing that. Note: I am not a deeply religious person/bible thumper/etc. or a follower of any organized religion. I don't make fun of it to people's faces, I'm not that terrible. but if theyre up for it, i will have an intellectual debate. I don't do it to hurt or offend anyone. Unless they're shoving it down my throat. That is a different story.. Okay then. But saying "I go out of my way to make fun of Christianity because it's ridiculous" is a far cry different from what you're now stating. Someone that's shoving it down your throat will not respond to someone ripping their belief system (regardless of whether or not they deserve a ripping). Jeez man, just walk away when someone's overly agressive in pressing their faith upon you. It's not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jan 12 2012, 08:33 AM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jan 12 2012, 03:05 AM) I really wish that the people who hate Neil and his beliefs - or lack thereof - would just ignore any thread mentioning his name. Really. It's so very tedious to read the same whining over and over again. The guy doesn't believe like you do: DEAL WITH IT and move on. /rant "I really wish that NEIL, who hates Christians and their beliefs, would just ignore any book or song or statement that mentions Jesus's name. Really. It's so very tedious to read the same whining over and over again. Christians don't believe like Neil does: DEAL WITH IT and move on NEIL." Hence the hypocrisy. Pretty sure he does. QUOTE "What bothers me is that anytime a Christian speaks his mind, he's told to shut up and suck it up, while no one instructs Neil and others like him to do likewise. " Bull. Nobody made you read Neil's update or listen to his lyrics. You take it upon yourself to do so and then to complain about how it differs from your beliefs. Again and again and again..... I don't care if a Christian speaks his mind. What I do care about is this idea that if someone else isn't a Christian, any discussion or even mention of their beliefs is described as "picking on" or "bashing" Christianity. The only people obsessed with Neil's antithesis towards their religion are making it quite clear in this thread. And BTW, what is so terrible about a "pro-pagan agenda" assuming that he has one? Why don't you try putting the shoe on the other foot for a minute.... how would you feel if instead of "God" everyone referred to "Goddess"? Or if instead of asking for prayers, people asked for spells (which are really only prayer with props)? What if it was assumed that everyone listening/watching believed that all of Nature is the embodiment of the Lady? And if you dared to speak up and say, "Well, that's not quite what I believe" only to be told that the majority does so suck it up? That's pretty much my world. Yet I have no antipathy for any faith that is honestly held and lovingly practiced. What bugs me is the total lack of empathy being shown here. His blog WAS very positive. He wrote of loss and love and reflection. But since he didn't do it using a certain language, his thoughts and feelings - which you went out of your way to read - are dismissed and ridiculed. It's appalling behavior from people who claim to be so very compassionate. Edited January 13, 2012 by HowItIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (Oracle @ Jan 12 2012, 10:57 AM) QUOTE (liddybuck01 @ Jan 12 2012, 08:30 AM) Neil is just doing what so many of us without religion try to do. get people to stop believing in man made story books and use some damn logic and reasoning. i, like Neil, go out of my way to make fun of Christianity. why? because it's ridiculous. Ridiculous to you and to many, but what right have you (or anyone for that matter) to take people's beliefs and trample on them? Religion should always be a personal matter. So if someone says "God bless you" after you sneeze, do you go on a little rant about God? No, you should say "Thank you" and leave it at that. As I see it, religion is always an inner and deep form of one's self. If you don't follow any religion, organized or unorganized, then good for you. If you DO follow any religion, then good for you. Just don't go around wearing it on your shoulder, because religion should only be shared in places of worship, where those who also believe can convene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 HOW DARE PEART TALK ABOUT HE NEW ALBUM! Now I can't diss him for talking about that boring travel shite he's usually blathering on about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (treeduck @ Jan 13 2012, 06:33 PM) HOW DARE PEART TALK ABOUT HE NEW ALBUM! Now I can't diss him for talking about that boring travel shite he's usually blathering on about! Damn you duck, admit that you love when he writes about billboards, bumper stickers, sedimentary rock, and tumbleweeds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jan 13 2012, 04:40 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jan 13 2012, 06:33 PM) HOW DARE PEART TALK ABOUT HE NEW ALBUM! Now I can't diss him for talking about that boring travel shite he's usually blathering on about! Damn you duck, admit that you love when he writes about billboards, bumper stickers, sedimentary rock, and tumbleweeds! I want to but then I'd confuse people enough so that they'd think that I'd have ruined my Peart-bashing reputation, when all along I'd be lying, or would I?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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