Suggestion: Subdivisions Synth Solo Sound?

[GUP1771]

First, I want to apologize if a topic like this has been brought up. I did a search, but I couldn't find anything. I've been trying to figure out how to get a sound similar to the synth solo in Subdivisions. (I've gotten really close to the lead keys, and I'm pretty satisfied where I am at with that.) I know the easy way, yet expensive way would be to buy an analog synth, but as a college student, that's simply out of the question right now.

 

I recently bought a Yamaha PSR-E423. It's a cheap keyboard that's loaded with features for the price, and I know I can get something out of it a bit closer than what I currently have.

 

I've read around the internet that people have suggested to use a patch with 'Saw' in it. I'm currently using what is called Sawtooth with a dual voice called Thick Saw. It's the closest I have came to the synth solo, but it still falls short. It has a clean, bright sound to it. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I could try? Should effects be added? I know that with a digital keyboard, I won't get a perfect sound, but I was hoping that someone may have an idea that could help direct me to a closer sound. Just a bit of info, I have added some release on it.

 

Just a little note, I'm new to the keyboards, and musical instruments in general, so I'm still trying to learn all of the lingo, and such, so please forgive me for any misusage of musical terms that I may have used.

 

It sucks I can't figure this out because I have been doing good. I already have a decent sound for Emotion Detector, which I can also play in full, as well as the little synth break in The Enemy Within. After I can figure out this synth solo for Subdivisions, I'm gonna try and tackle Afterimage and Red Sector A.

 

Thanks,

GUP1771

Edited June 19, 2011 by GUP1771

[invisibleairwaves]

See if you can adjust the filter settings for that patch. If it sounds too bright, you can try reducing the cutoff frequency until it sounds right. I have no idea if you can do it on that particular keyboard though.

[Tarkus406]

It looks like you do have the ability to control the filter settings, so do as invisijohn says and f**k around with the cutoff freq. and resonance until it sounds closer. A simple sawtooth waveform should get you there with some tweaking.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

The main synth is an Oberheim. The synth solo I believe is a Mini Moog so that means it's monophonic (single notes only, no chords). You'll need to set that and the portamento (the "slide" time between notes when in monophony). There is also a modulation wheel used at the end of phrases so that will need set too.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Oh, one thing you need to understand about synth programming is the ADSR curve. This acronym stands for Attack Decay Sustain and Release. Every synth tone is outlined this way. Attack translates to the initiation of the sound. If it starts too immediately then reduce the attack, if it's too slow then increase the attack. Decay is the drop off from the attack into the meat of the tone into the sustain. The sustain affects what happens as the key is held down. Release controls the end of the tone as the key is released. If you let go of the key and the note hangs on too long then reduce the release. If it's too abrupt then increase the release.

 

I find that I tweak attacks and release the most when working on a tone from a starting point/preset. In addition to filtering.

 

Also there is a delay on the solo. Not sure about the setting because it's been so long since I have programmed this tone for myself.

[PW_Guitarist]

All bang-on advice. I had the same problems trying to get that Mini-Moog sound (it's a bit similar to the Tom Sawyer lead sound, which came out of the same Mini Moog). I use the D50 for the Oberheim sound, but could not get a decent lead out of it for Subdivisions or Tom Sawyer to save my life. I got decent results from the SuperSaw sounds from the SH-32 and JP8000 (I'm a Roland guy, what can I say), so any "saw" sound is a good starting point. The parameters that will have the most impact will be the filter cutoff frequency and the resonance. Once you have the basic sound, you can then adjust the attack and decay envelope, effect and portamento.

[GUP1771]

Thanks everyone for the advice. It has helped to get the sound a bit closer. The problem is I don't have all those features such as decay and portamento. Unfortunately too, I don't have a modulation wheel, which is important to the solo, right? I have a pitch bender, but that's a pain. Is there a way to have a modulation wheel as an "add-on", possibly plug into the keyboard. Again, please forgive my horrible comprehension of everything. I'm learning.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Looking over the manual for that keyboard it seems that this model is listed on Yamaha's site as a "Portable Keyboard" which translates to a beginner consumer item designed to teach users keyboard fundamentals but it isn't intended to be a synthesizer. Any keyboard that plays chords from a single key on a certain range of keys, has functionality called "accompaniment" and built in speakers is geared more towards consumers rather than keyboard players. This is not to say that it doesn't have good sounds or functions. It does have sequencing capability and wave based samples but I doubt seriously that this piece will be able to play a monophonic tone like a Moog. It probably has a good basic Subdivisions type sound for the main part.

 

You can use it as a keyboard controller connected to a computer and control a soft synth using the built in USB to MIDI connector. If you want to use this board to do Rush type stuff then this will be the best way. You can even program the pitch wheel to be a mod instead, depending on the tone.

[Tarkus406]

QUOTE (PW_Guitarist @ Jun 22 2011, 07:16 AM)

All bang-on advice. I had the same problems trying to get that Mini-Moog sound (it's a bit similar to the Tom Sawyer lead sound, which came out of the same Mini Moog). I use the D50 for the Oberheim sound, but could not get a decent lead out of it for Subdivisions or Tom Sawyer to save my life. I got decent results from the SuperSaw sounds from the SH-32 and JP8000 (I'm a Roland guy, what can I say), so any "saw" sound is a good starting point. The parameters that will have the most impact will be the filter cutoff frequency and the resonance. Once you have the basic sound, you can then adjust the attack and decay envelope, effect and portamento.

I'm a Roland guy as well. Love their products

[Cowtothesky]

I'm not sure that the Yamaha PSR-E423 is going to offer what you want as far as programmability. It doesn't look like it lets you go in and adjust filters. Your best bet is to buy a used synth that you can get in and change parameters. You can buy a used Korg DW 8000 for about $200 on Ebay and re-create that solo sound to a "T". It has dual oscillators, so you can get that fat moog sound. It is basically 2 Poly 61's. Or, like others have mentioned, some of the early Roland analog synths are cool.

[GUP1771]

Thanks for the advice. I've searched around for a cheap synthesizer, and found the MicroKORG Synthesizer. The good news is that my parents are throwing me a college graduation party, and I may have a good sum of cash to spend on something. (I really should save money though and develop my skills with the bass, and eventually get a Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass, but that's a whole other story.) Would the MicroKORG provide me with that sound?

 

Also, instead of constantly hounding you guys, I'm probably gonna find a book to read, and learn about synths. Any suggestions for beginners?

 

Thanks again, everyone.

[Cowtothesky]

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Jul 2 2011, 07:05 PM)

Thanks for the advice. I've searched around for a cheap synthesizer, and found the MicroKORG Synthesizer. The good news is that my parents are throwing me a college graduation party, and I may have a good sum of cash to spend on something. (I really should save money though and develop my skills with the bass, and eventually get a Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass, but that's a whole other story.) Would the MicroKORG provide me with that sound? Also, instead of constantly hounding you guys, I'm probably gonna find a book to read, and learn about synths. Any suggestions for beginners? Thanks again, everyone.

This is a pretty good list of books. I've only read 2 of them though - Vintage Synths and Analog Days. I did a term paper in college on the history of synthesizers. The technology of it always fascinated me.

 

http://www.synthesizers.com/books.html

 

The only draw back with the microKorg is the number of voices. It only has 4 voices, meaning you can only play up to 4 notes at a time. The DW 8000 had 8 voices, 2 oscillators per voice. State of the art technology back in the mid 80's. lol

Edited July 5, 2011 by Cowtothesky

[invisibleairwaves]

The MicroKorg is a solid choice, and the 4-voice thing shouldn't be a huge deal for Rush stuff. My issue with it is the tiny keys, but a lot of people seem to do OK with it. There's a few other options, both in hardware and software, but if you're just getting started the MicroKorg is as good a beginner synth as any.

 

I first learned a lot about basic synthesis from reading Power Tools for Synthesizer Programming. It's a great read that explains the basics of analog-style synthesis really well, and it comes with an audio CD with some examples of techniques described in the book. Vintage Synth Explorer is a great online resource as well.

 

Hope that helps. Synths are fun as hell, and there's a world of possibilities with them.

Edited July 5, 2011 by invisibleairwaves

[Distant Signals]

Check out this sound for Subdivisions

 

http://youtu.be/gTdzaUYhkH8

[GUP1771]

Alrighty. Because I'm still poor, and can't afford a really good synth, but I found the best alternative. I bought the Korg MicroKey, which is a USB keyboard controller. I also bought the Korg Legacy Collection Pack, which pretty much contains everything I would need to do Rush material, and beyond probably. I'm having problems trying to get the solo sound in one of the virtual synth programs I am trying out: the Mono/Poly program. There is just so much to get comprehend, and I'm getting a bit discouraged.

 

Anyone know how to program a patch to get close to the solo? I tried the suggestions posted earlier, but failed. I just need a very good start with specifics, and then I probably could figure the rest out. Mono/Poly has all the features a synth would have (at least as far as I know), except it's virtual instead of hardware.

 

Thanks, and hope to hear back from someone soon.