ReRushed Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (thizzellewashington @ Mar 7 2011, 12:42 AM) How has this thread gone this far without "For you and me, we hold these truths to be self-evident/for you and me, we'd elect each other president"? Oh, dear Lord, that is bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enemy Within 77 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Mar 6 2011, 10:49 PM) QUOTE (CMWriter @ Mar 6 2011, 09:12 PM) I once saw someone comment that they found many of the lyrics to "Red Barchetta" rather "Middle-school" is what they used to describe them. What do you guys think? Yea or nay for "Red Barchetta"? Some of them are good, but there are phrases, especially "before the Motor Law" and "better-managed time", that really don't do it for me. If you're gonna knock the lyrics you can at least get them right. It's "better VANISHED time." I've always loved Red Barchetta, but I kinda cringe at Cold Fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Enemy Within 77 @ Mar 7 2011, 12:14 AM) If you're gonna knock the lyrics you can at least get them right. It's "better VANISHED time." Oh. That makes a lot more sense. It was the Permanent Waves/Moving Pictures "don't synchronize the word emphasis with the tune" style of writing, coupled with Geddy's enunciation, that threw me off. Edited March 7, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Not Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 6 2011, 09:44 PM) QUOTE (thizzellewashington @ Mar 7 2011, 12:42 AM) How has this thread gone this far without "For you and me, we hold these truths to be self-evident/for you and me, we'd elect each other president"? Oh, dear Lord, that is bad! x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisible To Telescopic Eye Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (Kenneth @ Mar 7 2011, 01:32 AM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 6 2011, 09:44 PM) QUOTE (thizzellewashington @ Mar 7 2011, 12:42 AM) How has this thread gone this far without "For you and me, we hold these truths to be self-evident/for you and me, we'd elect each other president"? Oh, dear Lord, that is bad! x2 Yeah...that one is bad...guess that's why I never bothered to hear the song enough times to notice how bad it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrekinboy Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Mar 7 2011, 03:15 AM)None of those are even close to his worst. Dog Years is immediately what I think of when it comes to that. The line from TSOR fits the song perfectly. The words written on the studio walls I always thought referred to a wall that rocks stars signed while visiting a radio station studio. Or possibly autographed pictures of them hanging up on a wall in the studio. The line "echoes with the sounds of salesmen" makes perfect sense because it's referring to advertisements on the radio. And since it's a song about radio what's the big deal? The lyrics to TSoR are a doff of the cap to 'The Sound of Silence' by Simon and Garfunkel, which goes: "And the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls And tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence" Unfortunately we have to have a comprehensive knowledge of musical history to pick up all the references in lyrics, not just Neil's. It is similar to film directors who insert into their own movies a homage to their own heroes and sometimes it is not entirely picked up by the audience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 6 2011, 09:58 PM) These lyrics make me cringe every time: What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound It's got wires that vibrate, and give music What can this thing be that I found? Me too...add Dog Years and RTB, and Superconductor...Watch his every move.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 oh, and Virtuality and Cold Fire...love the song, but the words...gah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jegmeister Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Cringeworthy lyrics par excellence are very rare I think with Rush. I know there are some (particularly in the snobby world of Rolling Stone) who disagree - Neil was named 2nd worst lyricist in rock by them. I think the problem is Neil's lyrics are too imaginative for them - they want lyrics about going out with chicks and riding motor bikes. Neil's intellectually thoughtful lyrics are a bit beyond them. Generally, I find his lyrics cleverly constructed, thought-provoking, imaginative and inspiring. At certain points in my life, thay have had an incredibly strong resonance (Subdivisions, Secret Touch). I find Neil's lyrics often focus on how he sees himself as an outsider who never quite fits in with society. And that is how I frequently see myself too. So they really do hit home very powerfully in many ways. However, I would agree that on the very rare occasions when he gets it wrong, he does so spectacularly. People have mentioned one or two of those I do find cringeworthy - Tai Shan and Nobody's Hero are two. I've never understood why people like the latter of these two so much - I think it's one of the weakest tracks on that album. Open Secrets is also pretty cringeworthy - and also IMO one of the most boring songs they have ever written. There are very few songs that Rush sing that I might fall asleep too - Open Secrets is definitely one of them. I find Emotion Detector quite cringey in places. Whilst I generally love the lyrics on Vapor Trails ( some of Neil's best ever IMO), Freeze has some silly lyrics. But the two worst albums (IMO) for lyrics are two that many people on here seem to like - Counterparts and Snakes and Arrows. Cold Fire has also been mentioned - the lyrics make me cringe, cringe, cringe every single sentence. The tune is actually not bad but the lyrics are so cringemaking it is embarassing. It's like a 10-year old wrote it. But I think for consistently poor lyrics it would be hard to beat Snakes and Arrows. One of the reasons why, against the grain of opinion amongst Rush fans, I dislike most of this album. Listen to the ponderous pretentiousness on the verses of Armor and Sword, the repetitive silliness of Workin Them Angels (who who whooah all the time and the words " Workin them Angels" repeated a million times, the fact that The Larger Bowl seems only to have about 3 sentences endlessly repeated in different orders and with an even more repeated chorus, the verging on pretentious Spindrift (which is to me a song that could have been great but loses its way badly), the rather obviously anti-religious lyrics of The Way The Wind Blows - like a sledgehmmaer to crack a nut (where is the usual Peart subtlety?) and last but definitely not least We Hold On - like Cold Fire a great tune but truly terrible lyrics. Cringe, cringe, cringe almost every single verse - although the chorus isn't too bad. However, then listen to Caravan and see how it should be done. I think that often Neil's best lyrics are where he keeps it simple and lets the listener use their imagination - ie Caravan, Closer to The Heart. The key thing is that the lyrics fit well with the song and make you feel that they are meant to be together - not "crammed in" artificially. S & A suffers very badly from this in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrekinboy Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (CMWriter @ Mar 7 2011, 04:12 AM)QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 6 2011, 08:58 PM) These lyrics make me cringe every time: What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth a sound It's got wires that vibrate, and give music What can this thing be that I found? I understand the significance and love the idea behind it, but.. Yeah. The first time I heard "Discovery" I was laughing my butt off. I don't think it's terrible, it's just.. a little oddly worded, perhaps? If I ever listen to 2112 and my dad's in the room during Presentation, he starts making little mocking, whiny-sounding comments like, "Don't yelll at meee!!" The back-and-forth between the Priests and the Protagonist is interesting, but kind of amusing. These lyrics are fine given the context. The only problem is they are slightly illogical. It is supposed to be a person who has never seen a musical instrument - "what can this strange device be?" - but he then says it gives music when he touches it. If he knows what music is then as soon as he has touched it he must know what the device is for. If he doesn't know what music is then how does he know it is music that it is producing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtron Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Agree with Nobody's Hero, Virtuality, and Dog Years (doggie heaven LOL). Heresy is one that makes me cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Most of my picks have already been listed - BUT to the person that mentioned Different Strings - didn't Geddy write that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jegmeister Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Jomoboni - yes Geddy wrote Different Strings. He has written some of Rush's best lyrics albeit he has only written a few of their songs - as well as this song, also Cinderella Man and Tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good,bad,andrush Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Peart wrote different strings, it says so in the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 i think im going bald...piss poor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (wrekinboy @ Mar 7 2011, 05:02 AM) The lyrics to TSoR are a doff of the cap to 'The Sound of Silence' by Simon and Garfunkel, which goes: "And the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls And tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence" Ah. I've heard "The Sound of Silence", but I didn't begin to make the connection. It's definitely Geddy's overblown delivery, then. QUOTE (wrekinboy @ Mar 7 2011, 06:03 AM)These lyrics are fine given the context. The only problem is they are slightly illogical. It is supposed to be a person who has never seen a musical instrument - "what can this strange device be?" - but he then says it gives music when he touches it. If he knows what music is then as soon as he has touched it he must know what the device is for. If he doesn't know what music is then how does he know it is music that it is producing? He has to know what music is, because the priests "have taken care of everything, the words you read, the songs you sing". But musical instruments could still be a completely foreign concept to him. Whatever; it's still a supremely silly passage. I love how he somehow plays the guitar instinctually without any prior experience. Edited March 7, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (Kenneth @ Mar 6 2011, 10:57 PM) ^ I don't particularly love/hate tai shan nor dog years, but most TRF users think these 2 suck in every way possible. not me. tai shan is a favorite of mine. think i'll have leftover pizza for breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony R Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It seems to me that some here have a problem with Peart's lyrics because they don't have the wit or the wisdom to understand them. Or they make crass assumptions about who wrote what and why. For a Rush fan to post on a Rush Message board that Geddy Lee wrote the lyrics to Different Strings is frankly bizarre. And dear me, if you've heard tSoR and The Sound Of Silence how can you possibly not make the connection? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 7 2011, 09:05 AM) And dear me, if you've heard tSoR and The Sound Of Silence how can you possibly not make the connection? It's been a while since I last listened to "The Sound of Silence" (I had a quick go on YouTube just now to refresh my memory), and there's a world of difference between Geddy's screaming and Paul's and Art's harmonious delivery, to say nothing of the completely different melodies. I can see the connection now, but only because I was looking for it. Edited March 7, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well, I'm glad this board now has some equal opportunity Geddy Lee bashing. I had no idea how overblown Geddy's vocal delivery has, apparently, always been. Now I have to read about how his vocal delivery ruins "The Spirit of Radio"!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Mar 7 2011, 10:57 AM) QUOTE (wrekinboy @ Mar 7 2011, 05:02 AM) The lyrics to TSoR are a doff of the cap to 'The Sound of Silence' by Simon and Garfunkel, which goes: "And the sign said the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls And tenement halls, and whispered in the sounds of silence" Ah. I've heard "The Sound of Silence", but I didn't begin to make the connection. It's definitely Geddy's overblown delivery, then. QUOTE (wrekinboy @ Mar 7 2011, 06:03 AM)These lyrics are fine given the context. The only problem is they are slightly illogical. It is supposed to be a person who has never seen a musical instrument - "what can this strange device be?" - but he then says it gives music when he touches it. If he knows what music is then as soon as he has touched it he must know what the device is for. If he doesn't know what music is then how does he know it is music that it is producing? He has to know what music is, because the priests "have taken care of everything, the words you read, the songs you sing". But musical instruments could still be a completely foreign concept to him. Whatever; it's still a supremely silly passage. I love how he somehow plays the guitar instinctually without any prior experience. I can't believe no one's corrected this before now, but the line is: "For the words of the PROFITS were written on the studio walls". . . "Prophets" in Sound of Silence, "profits" in TSOR. Yes, a nod to S&G, but with a subtle twist. I for one think TSOR is perfect. Really, a lot of the earlier sci-fi stuff comes off as cheesy in part because it just did not age well theme-wise. Also Neil was pretty new at the lyrics thing, and it shows. I've always thought "Speed of Love" and "Virtuality" were two of the worst in terms of recent work (relatively speaking). "Speed of Love" is trite and over-the-top, Neil trying too hard to elevate a corny-ass love song into something it's not. "Virtuality" is just contrived and bad. Edited March 7, 2011 by Mara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 7 2011, 09:21 AM) Well, I'm glad this board now has some equal opportunity Geddy Lee bashing. I had no idea how overblown Geddy's vocal delivery has, apparently, always been. You're better than to use a straw man like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Mar 7 2011, 10:32 AM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 7 2011, 09:21 AM) Well, I'm glad this board now has some equal opportunity Geddy Lee bashing. I had no idea how overblown Geddy's vocal delivery has, apparently, always been. You're better than to use a straw man like that. Oh, please. There's no straw man argument here. There's a lot of Rush bashing on this board and, yes, some of it is justified. And there's no doubt in my mind you are going out of your way to criticize Geddy Lee. That's all. "The Spirit of Radio" of all songs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtron Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 7 2011, 11:05 AM)For a Rush fan to post on a Rush Message board that Geddy Lee wrote the lyrics to Different Strings is frankly bizarre. I thought he did too. From my vinyl copy of PeW: http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg214/stormtron/dslee.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrekinboy Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Mar 7 2011, 04:12 PM)QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 7 2011, 09:05 AM) And dear me, if you've heard tSoR and The Sound Of Silence how can you possibly not make the connection? It's been a while since I last listened to "The Sound of Silence" (I had a quick go on YouTube just now to refresh my memory), and there's a world of difference between Geddy's screaming and Paul's and Art's harmonious delivery, to say nothing of the completely different melodies. I can see the connection now, but only because I was looking for it. SJ - before you start a thread bashing something you should probably make sure your position is reasonably sound. Whatever else Neil is, he is very well read and has a number of interests. His lyrics are therefore explained by a number of different references, themes etc. If you are not aware of them it says more about you than it does about his ability as a lyricist. What is worse is that now that your lack of appreciation of the lyric is revealed, you switch the attack to Ged's delivery. Epic fail x2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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