CeeJ Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Was Rutsey screwed out of the band? I am watching the Doc for the second time, the first being in NYC, AND really enjoying it. But I couldn't help but think this, for the second time. Which leads me to wonder, what put your minds at ease with this? I am really having a tough time NOT believing that John, who was part of Rush, was pushed out of the band for Peart. I think that Neil was met before John was thrown out of the band . I think that they had heard Neil and decided they wanted him. Take a look at the Doc. It was Vic Wilson's decision to "let go of John". At this point Neil was playing with JR Flood. And someone invited Neil to try out for Rush. I know that I can't be the only person to think this. Especially if you saw the Doc. We listened to Alex's Mom talk about how Alex didn't wanna finish school. We listened to Geddy tell Neil to explain the album to a reporter. Alex and Geddy were about playing instruments. Having a good time and being stoned. Neil is about the lyrics. The boys are about the music. So Neil brought the "spin" to the band. You know it wasn't Alex and Geddy's ideas for the songs. And they would have continued to do so with John. Alex even stated it in the Doc. Would they have lasted almost 40 years??? Who knows... But they would have been having fun none the less. So can you tell me what eased your mind about John being kicked out of his band over the years? Share your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mong82191 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 My mind is easied. Neil brought the triangle together and plus HE CAN DO EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EveryNerveAware Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I think it was like they said in the documentary. John was not taking care of himself and partying way too much. His diabetes required a specific lifestyle that he wasn't going to adhere to with "rock band touring" and their statement that if John went out on tour they'd be bringing him home in a body bag was probably pretty accurate. I think they did it out of concern for John first and the band second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I definitely agree with the part about Rutsey sort of getting shafted - now that we have more of the story. For Peart specifically? Not sure. Maybe Wilson (or someone) had a "short list" of local up-and-coming drummers he had in mind and Neil was on it. I don't think Neil was personally part of any scheming himself, though. (I know, you didn't make that implication). He was as surprised as anyone when he was asked to audition. I think the decision to bring Neil on was left strictly in Geddy & Alex's hands, though. I haven't seen any version of the story to indicate differently. Odd that John never thought to speak of this to anyone while he was still alive. You'd think he'd have at least voiced any bitterness to an acquaintance or two. Stuff like that, even though it's hearsay, tends to get leaked eventually. And who wouldn't be at least a little indignant if it went down the way it's portrayed in BTLS? I know I would. It's also interesting that John apparently never pursued a music career with any other bands. Once he was out of Rush, he was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJ Posted September 9, 2010 Author Share Posted September 9, 2010 Alex and Geddy weren't even aware that John was being "let go of". They were told so. How do Alex and John put together a band with Geddy, then finally get a contract, and JOHN gets the boot. Alex and Geddy were partying too. But they weren't diabetic. So John was let go of because of that? When Donna listened to the band... IT WAS JOHN. When the contract was signed... IT WAS JOHN. When the band was on stage and announced... IT WAS JOHN doing that. What I see is that VIC found a different drummer and found a reason to get rid of John. Neil was a book worm. Nothing like Geddy and Alex. So along with the new drummer, they also will get another group of fans. Looks like John was thrown out. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdaly Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 QUOTE (CeeJ @ Sep 9 2010, 11:14 AM) Was Rutsey screwed out of the band? I am watching the Doc for the second time, the first being in NYC, AND really enjoying it. But I couldn't help but think this, for the second time. Which leads me to wonder, what put your minds at ease with this? I am really having a tough time NOT believing that John, who was part of Rush, was pushed out of the band for Peart. I think that Neil was met before John was thrown out of the band . I think that they had heard Neil and decided they wanted him. Take a look at the Doc. It was Vic Wilson's decision to "let go of John". At this point Neil was playing with JR Flood. And someone invited Neil to try out for Rush. I know that I can't be the only person to think this. Especially if you saw the Doc. We listened to Alex's Mom talk about how Alex didn't wanna finish school. We listened to Geddy tell Neil to explain the album to a reporter. Alex and Geddy were about playing instruments. Having a good time and being stoned. Neil is about the lyrics. The boys are about the music. So Neil brought the "spin" to the band. You know it wasn't Alex and Geddy's ideas for the songs. And they would have continued to do so with John. Alex even stated it in the Doc. Would they have lasted almost 40 years??? Who knows... But they would have been having fun none the less. So can you tell me what eased your mind about John being kicked out of his band over the years? Share your thoughts. I think this was probably a case of multiple things going on at the same time... 1.) Musical differences - we've heard/read more than once that John was into a more straightforward sound, whereas Geddy and Alex wanted to get a little more experimental/complicated. As an example, they'd already written to music for what would eventually become "Anthem", and John couldn't "groove" on it that well. It wasn't his thing. 2.) Health issues - John had juvenile diabetes, and probably would have had a very difficult time with extended touring. So...was he "shafted"? I guess it depends on how you look at it. I think it more likely a case of them needing to make a change in order to step it up and have a real shot at the "next level" their career was heading to. It IS interesting that Vic's statement in the documentary was the very first time the story has ever been told from the slant of "John was let go" (instead of "John quit"). From all I've read/seen/etc, I don't think Neil was "in the picture" prior to them deciding to part ways with John. Oh, and not to be nit-picky, but Neil was playing in a band called Hush when he was asked to audition for Rush. His time with JR Flood had been a couple years prior to that, before he headed off to England. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 QUOTE (Mara @ Sep 9 2010, 12:26 PM) It's also interesting that John apparently never pursued a music career with any other bands. Once he was out of Rush, he was done. Yes...exactly. If John was REALLY interested in what he was doing...even if he had 'gotten the shaft' from Rush, wouldn't he have just joined some other band?? He was clearly talented enough to find work...and Rush were slowly starting to pick up steam thanks to Donna Halper getting them airplay with Working Man. He probably could've found work in another band with no issue. So, while I also think he was shafted, it was clear to me that his health conditions (also noted in the doc) were quite obvious. It was mentioned that he couldn't handle long tours because of it...so to me, this is arguably why he did not pursue music afterwards. Also...IMO, Neil had nothing to do with ousting John Rutsey. From what I gathered, Alex and Ged had never even met Neil before his audition (remember...they were making fun of his look and such?!)...so no, Neil had nothing to do with that if you ask me. Also, no offence meant to John whatsoever because he was a good drummer indeed, but if you saw what The Professor could do on the skins, would it be that difficult of a decision??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvgeddy05 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I think John wanted to keep with Rush despite musical differences and his health concerns. Being that young, you don't want to admit defeat and face realty of not being well. That said, someone (Vic or whoever) probably stepped in and gave him the cold hard truth. And such as it was the truth, what was Rutsey to say? Rutsey himself knew it was right so hearing it from someone else probably solidified the decision. I highly doubt he was schemed out of the band with Neil. And I don't think Neil was chosen to be attractive to a different sort of audience. Heck, at that point, they were still trying to find AN audience period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Slipperman Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Sometimes the business is cut-throat. Perhaps John didn't want to take it "that extra mile" and Alex and Ged wanted to. Sure, all three of them had partying in common, but perhaps they didn't all have the same ideas about where they wanted their career to go. Anyone who's ever been in a band can attest to this: If there are problems with a person (whether it's health-related, differences in ideas, amount of commitment, etc) it can be the very thing that stops a group from making a leap into the Big Leagues. It's serious business. Speaking from experience, sometimes I've been "that guy" and sometimes someone else has. I get the feeling that if John had really wanted to be a serious musician, he'd have started at least trying to take better care of himself and (as others have said) gotten into another band, rather than drop out of music completely. Even though he was disappointed at not being in the band any longer, if it REALLY was in him to play music for his livelihood he would have done what it took to get back into it with SOMEONE. When you have health issues, you can't be as carefree as someone else may be able to. Hard truth. Just some thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Sep 9 2010, 12:48 PM) We can only guess at what might have happened, but I don't think Rush would still be around today if Rutsey remained. Absolutely...that is without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSRD Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Since John never did anything musical afterwards I dont think he got shafted. He wasnt prepared or really seemed to desire going forward with the band. Thanks god! Because without Neil Rush would never have become what they are! You think Geddy and Alex wanted to write a song about the soloar federation??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 .......who cares? like besides the guys in rush themselves, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkus406 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Look at it this way...if Rutsey stayed with Rush, he woulda died a lot sooner. Then there ya go, no more Rush. Even if he did live...look at him now! He's dead! STILL no more Rush. Neil's alive and well and so is Rush, so on live Neil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boots Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 He was let go for health reasons. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunch Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushHour Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I don't think he would've died sooner if he'd stayed in the band. You never know what could've happened. You can only speculate. I know Bret Michaels is a different story altogether, but he also has diabetes & he's still alive & kicking, in spite of an aneurysm. Diabetes doesn't have to get in the way of a music career-- or any other career. It doesn't have to be a death sentence. Women with Type I DM are having kids-- healthy kids. Medicine was not as advanced in the early days of Rush as it is today. You can say the same about the attitudes of laymen in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incubus Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 John was a nice guy & all, but if it weren't for Neil, then Rush would be just another generic rock band, like Aerosmith or Van Halen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesweetscience Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 QUOTE (mong82191 @ Sep 9 2010, 12:20 PM) My mind is easied. Neil brought the triangle together and plus HE CAN DO EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!! Except greet fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddysMullet Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 This is even less than a non-issue at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 QUOTE (Incubus @ Sep 9 2010, 01:46 PM) John was a nice guy & all, but if it weren't for Neil, then Rush would be just another generic rock band, like Aerosmith or Van Halen. Probably not even that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvgeddy05 Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Remember: Geddy was kicked out of the band too Poor Ray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaveMyThingAlone Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I think Rush would have been big with or without Neil. Rush is huge today not because of the lyrics or drumming, but the music. No band ever made it because of a drummer. They'd definitely have a different sound and different lyrics, but Alex and Geddy still were going to become amazing musicians and had that intense work ethic with or without Neil. I think they'd be hugely successful no matter the drummer I always found it somewhat odd how John Rutsey really pulled a Syd Barrett and totally disappeared. Are there even any known interviews with the guy where he has his version of what went down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneEyre Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I don't really see why we should doubt the story about John. Aren't the sources credible? And, no offence meant but, in my opinion, the idea that Rush would be just as awesome without Peart is ludacris. My opinion, with all due respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclops Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Let's say he was pushed out of the band. What difference would it make? Neil was obviously an upgrade in every sense. The drumming alone would've been enough, but he's also written lyrics for their best albums. Nothing against John Rutsey, but Neil Peart is...well...Neil Peart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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