Witch Hunt

[circumstantial tree]

Hey, P-man! Thanks are going pretty well, actually. New job, etc... Hope all is well with you?

[Pags]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Apr 15 2005, 08:37 AM)

Hey, P-man! Thanks are going pretty well, actually. New job, etc... Hope all is well with you?

WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

How are you liking it??

[circumstantial tree]

It's going pretty good. It didn't take me too long to settle in. It's basically the same type of work I was doing back in Massachusetts. A paycheck is a sweet thing, isn't it?

[Tom Sawyer]

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Apr 14 2005, 08:09 PM)

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Apr 14 2005, 09:53 PM) As a teen this song was important to me lyrically. Those who claim to be righteous are not necesarily (sp). It is also such a solid argument against censorship. This was a very brave song for that time. The very right-wing Christians were not happy looking into that mirror (if you will) and started spreading rumors of Rush's Satan worship. Im sorry to get off the point but sometimes I wonder how serious Christians who are fans of Rush reconcile the two in their own mind. Rush is moral, and yet anti-Christian. Just wondering. not trying to offend. I am a Christian and as far as I know, it isn't a sin to be a RUSH fan.   Also, since when has RUSH been ANTI Christian? I am not anthiest, but I am not anti atheist!! I am not Jewish but I am not anti Jewish. and so forth.   Also, RUSH made it a little hard on themselves with the red star. Most who did not know about 2112, assumed it was a satanic symbol. You have to admit on the surface, it seems that way. I spent a lot of time explaining that it wasn't satanic. AND ... it was more of an anti rock thing. I was there, I lived through it as a Christian and a RUSH fan.

[faultline]

One thing I love about Rush songs, is the moral authority they often carry in them. In some ways it is an amazing phenomenon because it is not based on notions of "How God , our creator, intended things to be." but ranther on conviction of what EVIDENTLY seems right.

The final lyrics of Witch Hunt conclude in its final line what sums up all its former sentiments "Ignorance and predjudice and fear walk hand in hand". It sounds off like an alarm, a warning, or a decree to take heed!. It sounds like something that would thunder from a pulpit on a Sunday morning. I believe the song Mission, gives us the frame work, that I believe Neil always seems to feel a sense of "mission" , - something important to say-, in his songs. Witch Hunt is no exception, like I said, it rings out with moral authority.

 

Although I agree with the sentiment of the last line of Witch Hunt, I some what find this song annoying. I am 42 years old. In my life time, in this country, I cannot recollect a situation where right wing christians are trying to censore anything that we read in libraries, or buy in a bookstore, or watch at the movies. The exception is restrictions on Porn. These restrictions usually have the sensibilities of children in mind.

The illustrations in the verses of Witch Hunt set up straw-men that are easily knocked down, but seem to have no real world application. At the end of the day, the song seems to incite moral indignation against right wing christians . If so, then the only witch hunting going on is toward them. The very thing the song warns against, it provokes. How great is that?

 

I am not trying to be too unfriendy, but after all these years, I dont find this song that meaningful. Fundamental Christians, are dogs that bark; Fundamental Muslims , are dogs that bite in our world today. (meaning the kind that fly planes into buildings, and the kind that are violently taking control of pricipalities in 3rd world countries. NOT ALL MUSLIMS).

I find "Peaceable Kingdom" as a song much more relative , as it relates much more urgently to the wories of Fundamentalism in our world today

Anyway, that is how I see it

[physics23]

The thought had never occurred to me that this song was directed against right-wing Christians, and even after reading all your cogent posts I'm still hesitant to say that's what the song's about. It seems to me a very universal song, which can be adapted and applied to situations wherever man is intolerant of his fellow man.

The opening stanza reminded me a lot of scenes in Mississippi Burning, and of course if you take the title literally the Salem Witch Trials come to mind. But these are merely variant manifestations of the same disease - xenophobia.

[faultline]

QUOTE (physics23 @ Apr 16 2005, 02:40 AM)

The thought had never occurred to me that this song was directed against right-wing Christians, and even after reading all your cogent posts I'm still hesitant to say that's what the song's about. It seems to me a very universal song, which can be adapted and applied to situations wherever man is intolerant of his fellow man. The opening stanza reminded me a lot of scenes in Mississippi Burning, and of course if you take the title literally the Salem Witch Trials come to mind. But these are merely variant manifestations of the same disease - xenophobia.

The opening stanza to me, reminds me of what breaks forth in my house when I find out someone has eaten the last piece of pizza left in the fridge that I thought I had saved for myself , after a long day of work! How dare they eat MY piece of pizza!...

You are right, though, that a much more universal interpretation is more fitting and benificial, than narrowing offenders down to right-wing Christians. ..Good point.

[Rolinda Bonz]

The intensity and the precision of the music alone make this song worthy.

 

The lyrics are not contradictory but parallel Christian philososphy.

Concerning "Christian" witch hunts and book burnings: Romans 2:24 As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

 

Matthew 7:1-2 (this is from Christ's mouth) "Judge not, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

 

As a Christian Rush fan, I have no problems reconciling any part of Fear.

Fear is to be acknowledged then dismissed.

II Timothy 1:7, "For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline."

 

Oh yeah, and Witch Hunt ROCKS!!!!

[My_Shrimp_Cot]

QUOTE (faultline @ Apr 16 2005, 02:16 AM)

One thing I love about Rush songs, is the moral authority they often carry in them. In some ways it is an amazing phenomenon because it is not based on notions of "How God , our creator, intended things to be." but ranther on conviction of what EVIDENTLY seems right. The final lyrics of Witch Hunt conclude in its final line what sums up all its former sentiments "Ignorance and predjudice and fear walk hand in hand". It sounds off like an alarm, a warning, or a decree to take heed!. It sounds like something that would thunder from a pulpit on a Sunday morning. I believe the song Mission, gives us the frame work, that I believe Neil always seems to feel a sense of "mission" , - something important to say-, in his songs. Witch Hunt is no exception, like I said, it rings out with moral authority. Although I agree with the sentiment of the last line of Witch Hunt, I some what find this song annoying. I am 42 years old. In my life time, in this country, I cannot recollect a situation where right wing christians are trying to censore anything that we read in libraries, or buy in a bookstore, or watch at the movies. The exception is restrictions on Porn. These restrictions usually have the sensibilities of children in mind. The illustrations in the verses of Witch Hunt set up straw-men that are easily knocked down, but seem to have no real world application. At the end of the day, the song seems to incite moral indignation against right wing christians . If so, then the only witch hunting going on is toward them. The very thing the song warns against, it provokes. How great is that? I am not trying to be too unfriendy, but after all these years, I dont find this song that meaningful. Fundamental Christians, are dogs that bark; Fundamental Muslims , are dogs that bite in our world today. (meaning the kind that fly planes into buildings, and the kind that are violently taking control of pricipalities in 3rd world countries. NOT ALL MUSLIMS). I find "Peaceable Kingdom" as a song much more relative , as it relates much more urgently to the wories of Fundamentalism in our world today Anyway, that is how I see it

Unless your a homosexual and trying to live a respectable life with your partner. Then it very well may be relevent.

 

(Just a thought)

[Arndrake]

QUOTE (faultline @ Apr 16 2005, 02:16 AM)

Although I agree with the sentiment of the last line of Witch Hunt, I some what find this song annoying. I am 42 years old. In my life time, in this country, I cannot recollect a situation where  right wing christians are trying to censore anything that we read in libraries, or buy in a bookstore, or watch at the movies. The exception is restrictions on Porn. These restrictions usually have the sensibilities of children in mind.  The illustrations in the verses of Witch Hunt set up straw-men that are easily knocked down, but seem to have no real world  application. At the end of the day, the song  seems to incite moral indignation against right wing christians . If so,  then the only witch hunting going on is toward them. The very thing  the song warns against, it provokes. How great is that? I am not trying to be too unfriendy, but after all these years,  I dont find this song that meaningful. Fundamental Christians, are dogs that bark; Fundamental Muslims , are dogs that bite in our world today. (meaning the kind that fly planes into buildings, and the kind that are violently taking control of pricipalities in 3rd world countries. NOT ALL MUSLIMS). I find "Peaceable Kingdom" as a song much more relative , as it relates much more urgently to the wories of Fundamentalism in our world today

While right-wing Christian fundamentalism may not be attempting to censure the entire country, it is and has done so in many small communities. The movie Footloose and a scene in Field of Dreams, while both fictional, brought light to that issue. It still happens. And the more small communities fall, the more the fundamentalists build their power base and move to fry bigger fish.

 

As documented in a recent article in Rolling Stone, a truly frightening evangelical movement called the Dominionists, intent on gaining control of the government and the country for Christ, has the ear of many politicians in Washington DC. Now, while this is a bit of a sensationalist story, it does raise the question of where is this country going.

 

So I think the message in Witch Hunt is just as prevalent, if not more so today. There are many Americans, possibly even close to a majority, who are distrustful of anyone who appears to be of Middle Eastern heritage. Fifty years ago, we were embroiled in the Red Scare, a political ploy by Sen. McCarthy, but still an event that ruined many lives. So how long before we have the Terrorist Scare and people of all walks of life are accused of sympathising or associating with terrorists? In some cases, people are already being watched, suspected, and ostracized just because of where they are from. It would not take much for a mob mentality to run rampant through this country and thousands of innocent people be hurt or chased out.

 

By the way, the song has a great dark sound, especially the little chimes in the beginning that distort as the mob grows.

[faultline]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Apr 16 2005, 07:15 AM)

[/quote] Unless your a homosexual and trying to live a respectable life with your partner. Then it very well may be relevent. (Just a thought)

In my thinking, this is what I meant by "Dogs that barK" instead of "Dogs that bite"

You will hear Christians decry the morality of homosexuallity, and why they do not believe it should be included in the instituition of marriage, but they are not the ones who will form a lynch mob and brutalize someone because they are gay. Matthew Sheppard was not a Christian. he was a "Dog that bites". Jesus taught his Followers to "Bless their enemies" "turn the other cheek" "Pray for those that persecute them" . They maybe annoying, but they are not killers..Not that I have seen, not in this nation, not in this generation.

Yet, there are fundamental muslims in the world today that are burning, beating, and killing the infadels in Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan and other places, all because they dont bow the knee to Allah. Again, not all muslims are this way, I am not trying to incite ill-will torward anyone in the islamic faith, but I am trying put some perspective to what we are dealing with in our world today.

"Fear" is blind , and charges easily with little provacation and poor vision...like a Rhino with poor eye sight!...."Caution" , though it seems like fear, has its eyes wide open. It will eventually see clearly when the fog lifts, and will come to the right conclusions.

[Test4VitalSigns]

You're taking the "lynch mob" angle of the song way too literally. It is just a metaphor to describe how groups (such as Christian right-wingers, politically-correct-minded leftwingers, islamic fundamentalists, etc etc...) seem to amass against something they don't understand, like or accept due to preconceived judgement and narrow minded thinking. I see what you are getting at with the "dogs that bark and bite" analogy but the fact of the matter all of these groups continue to try to change society to fit their way of thinking and living, albeit in different ways....terrorism (and not just islamic; see McVeigh, Rudolph and others who have killed doctors who perform abortions)...protests...court challenges, political pressure etc.....Though I think the song covers these matters in general I personally think Neil was perhaps influenced by Right-wing Christian opposition because at the time he wrote this song Rush was one of the many bands mentioned in the crusade against "Satanic Rock Music" that was going on in the late 70's-early 80's. Here is a letter Neil wrote to a newspaper editor concerning a certain Christian group who held a seminar which teaches that rock music was turning the world's youth to satanism.

 

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcrip...artsatanism.htm

 

 

[My_Shrimp_Cot]

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Apr 16 2005, 10:40 AM)

You're taking the "lynch mob" angle of the song way too literally. It is just a metaphor to describe how groups (such as Christian right-wingers, politically-correct-minded leftwingers, islamic fundamentalists, etc etc...) seem to amass against something they don't understand, like or accept due to preconceived judgement and narrow minded thinking. I see what you are getting at with the "dogs that bark and bite" analogy but the fact of the matter all of these groups continue to try to change society to fit their way of thinking and living, albeit in different ways....terrorism (and not just islamic; see McVeigh, Rudolph and others who have killed doctors who perform abortions)...protests...court challenges, political pressure etc.....Though I think the song covers these matters in general I personally think Neil was perhaps influenced by Right-wing Christian opposition because at the time he wrote this song Rush was one of the many bands mentioned in the crusade against "Satanic Rock Music" that was going on in the late 70's-early 80's. Here is a letter Neil wrote to a newspaper editor concerning a certain Christian group who held a seminar which teaches that rock music was turning the world's youth to satanism. http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcrip...artsatanism.htm

 

 

 

 

The right wing (as well as the left) is very well armed with pens, money and lawyers; there is more than one way to brutilize, and segregate and discriminate. We should ignore this fact because people in Africa are being brutilized?

[faultline]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Apr 16 2005, 11:16 AM)

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Apr 16 2005, 10:40 AM) You're taking the "lynch mob" angle of the song way too literally.  It is just a metaphor to describe how groups (such as Christian right-wingers, politically-correct-minded leftwingers, islamic fundamentalists, etc etc...) seem to amass against something they don't understand, like or accept due to preconceived judgement and narrow minded thinking.  I see what you are getting at with the "dogs that bark and bite" analogy but the fact of the matter all of these groups continue to try to change society to fit their way of thinking and living, albeit in different ways....terrorism (and not just islamic; see McVeigh, Rudolph and others who have killed doctors who perform abortions)...protests...court challenges, political pressure etc.....Though I think the song covers these matters in general I personally think Neil was perhaps influenced by Right-wing Christian opposition because at the time he wrote this song Rush was one of the many bands mentioned in the crusade against "Satanic Rock Music" that was going on in the late 70's-early 80's.  Here is a letter Neil wrote to a newspaper editor concerning a certain Christian group who held a seminar which teaches that rock music was turning the world's youth to satanism. http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcrip...artsatanism.htm         The right wing (as well as the left) is very well armed with pens, money and lawyers; there is more than one way to brutilize, and segregate and discriminate. We should ignore this fact because people in Africa are being brutilized? You guys are making great points. In quick retrospect, the only lines in the song that seems to warn against censorship by moralist groups would be "they say there is strangeness that threateans us, in our theatres and book store shelves. those who know whats best for us must rise and save us from ourselves" The lines former to this "They say there are strangers who threaten us, our immigrants and infidels" have a much broader application than just right wingers. In california, there is a growing tension with illegal immigration among US citizens. It is becoming more of a racial issue. That would be a current example as well from the song...Many mexicans are being unfairly villainized imo.   The article written by Neil seems to be after the release of Moving Pictures. He was being slandered, and falsely accused. Good find . The accussers were out of their mind for sure. I hate them.   "We should ignore them because people in Africa are being brutalized"   Racism is the biggest motive for killing in the world today. yes , I do believe that murder is much more worse than unjust maligning. You could say that one leads to the other. I am simply more careful these days about where I draw line in the sand and cry "Unjustice!" . We live in a pluralistic culture in the market place of ideas. Just because we disagree, doesnt make us haters. We are getting to the place where we believe that tolerance means we must concede to agree with the opposing view. If we dont agree, does that mean the opposing view gets to call the other a hater, a bigot and a discriminator?. If Christians , Jews, and Muslims are true to their doctrine, they will never approve of the morality of a gay lifestyle. Does that make them haters? Today I witnessed something awful. At my daughters soccer game, an opposing parent got heated and angry at the 17 year old referee. My older son knows this boy, and that he is gay. The female parent of their star player shouted out " you Fvcken' fagget! you stupid fvcken' fagget!" She was rightly ejected from the park. You could see that the boy referee was shaken. the parent is NOT a christain. That ,to me, is a dog that bites. It wasnt violent, but awful anyway. The gay community thinks that the religious right is the source of their problem opposition, they are sorely mistaken. The right barks, but doesnt bite. Though they dont agree with the life style, they dont necessarilly hate. Bigotry and racism comes from another place, not religion imo. The good part of the story is that the lady was ejected , and possibly shamed a bit from the whole community. It did not take christains only to to that rightly either.

[sfuentes]

I like Witch Hunt for the fact that it is a very strong contender to be the very best song on the entire album.

 

What I don't like about it is that it hasn't been played live enough.

[Margana]

I thonk this song has a great sound - moody and threatening which complements the lyrics. Like others, I always thought of this song as a criticism of narrow minded people and not any particular grouping.

The version on ASOH with Neil using the electronic kit plus throwing his sticks around is particularly impressive.