Texas King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. That opening riff might be the most metal thing in Sabbath’s catalogue. It’s disgustingly sinister. That’s a bit of hyperbole but A National Acrobat is every bit as metal as anything else released in the 70s. If you want to argue metal didn’t begin until the 80s, then be my guest. Nope, I agree that metal started in the 70's and Sabbath was the first metal band(and Judas Priest is probably the second), but I just don't find most stuff on the album Sabbath Bloody Sabbath to be metal, unlike the previous three BS albums. To me National Acrobat is not a metal song, it has some heavy riffs at the beginning, but overall it lacks the heaviness throughout the whole song, it also lacks aggressivness and dark sound, the second part of NA is pretty sophisticated, mellow and experimental. Compare National Acrobat with Children of the Grave and you will see a clear difference in heaviness and aggressivness. Edited April 5, 2019 by Texas King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. That opening riff might be the most metal thing in Sabbath’s catalogue. It’s disgustingly sinister. That’s a bit of hyperbole but A National Acrobat is every bit as metal as anything else released in the 70s. If you want to argue metal didn’t begin until the 80s, then be my guest. Nope, I agree that metal started in the 70's and Sabbath was the first metal band(and Judas Priest is probably the second), but I just don't find most stuff on the album Sabbath Bloody Sabbath to be metal, unlike the previous three BS albums. To me National Acrobat is not a metal song, it has some heavy riffs at the beginning, but overall it lacks the heaviness throughout the whole song, it also lacks aggressivness and dark sound, the second part of NA is pretty sophisticated, mellow and experimental. Compare National Acrobat with Children of the Grave and you will see a clear difference in heaviness and aggressivness. Metal is more than just "aggression". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 I haven’t read a word yet, but let me guess...this will turn into several pages of arguing what is and isn’t metal. So far it’s mostly people who can’t count and a few who say they can’t do it because it’s too tough. The phrase “It’s too tough to ((whatever))” shouldn’t be allowed in a metal thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2112YYZ Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. Tony Iommi played it, therefore it is metal. Any sounds that come from Iommi's guitar are metal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. Tony Iommi played it, therefore it is metal. Any sounds that come from Iommi's guitar are metal. I was going to say something along those lines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. Tony Iommi played it, therefore it is metal. Any sounds that come from Iommi's guitar are metal. Tony Iommi himself never considered his playing to be metal, other people decided so. He could play some jazz-rock and people (including you) would still call it metal. And his guitar solos in the 70's BS songs are very bluesy compared to solos of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Metallica in their metal songs. On Stained Class in 1978 Judas Priest definitely discarded that bluesy and psychedelic element in guitar playing that 70's Sabbath had and that album gave heavy metal its pure definition and it was a true forerunner of NWOBHM and the 80's metal in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. Nope, nope and nope. First full-on heavy metal album(where every track is metal) is Stained Class and it was released in 1978. There are many non-metal elements in the 70's Sabbath catalog. Master of Reality is a BS album that is closest to full-on heavy metal. Edited April 5, 2019 by Texas King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. Nope, nope and nope. First full-on heavy metal album(where every track is metal) is Stained Class and it was released in 1978. Nope. Black Sabbath. Released on February 13, 1970 in the U.K. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. Nope, nope and nope. First full-on heavy metal album(where every track is metal) is Stained Class and it was released in 1978. Nope. Black Sabbath. Released on February 13, 1970 in the U.K. Half of the tracks on self-titled are the stuff not much different than Jimi Hendrix Experience. It's far from a metal-defining album. Paranoid is a different story, it was much more metal. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is the least metal out of the first 6 BS albums. Edited April 5, 2019 by Texas King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. Nope, nope and nope. First full-on heavy metal album(where every track is metal) is Stained Class and it was released in 1978. Nope. Black Sabbath. Released on February 13, 1970 in the U.K. Half of the tracks on self-titled are the stuff not much different than Jimi Hendrix Experience. It's far from a metal-defining album. Paranoid is a different story, it was much more metal. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is the least metal out of the first 6 BS albums. Totally disagree. It's pretty much generally understood to be the first metal album. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driventotheedge Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Aaaaaaand there's the "what's metal and what isn't" argument.As Rick N Backer said, most folks consider the first Sabbath album to be the first metal album. However there are songs that preceded it that are considered metal most notably the Blue Cheer version of Summertime Blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Aaaaaaand there's the "what's metal and what isn't" argument.As Rick N Backer said, most folks consider the first Sabbath album to be the first metal album. However there are songs that preceded it that are considered metal most notably the Blue Cheer version of Summertime BluesOr Mountain's Mississippi Queen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driventotheedge Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Aaaaaaand there's the "what's metal and what isn't" argument.As Rick N Backer said, most folks consider the first Sabbath album to be the first metal album. However there are songs that preceded it that are considered metal most notably the Blue Cheer version of Summertime BluesOr Mountain's Mississippi QueenYes sir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangy Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Wake up dead- megadethThe conjuring- Megadeth In my darkest hour- Megadeth Slaughtered-pantera 5 minutes alone - Pantera Swim to the moon- between the buried and meSelkies-btbamWhite walls-btbamNottingham lace- bucketheadSoothsayet- buckethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) From someone who's not at all Metal literate, obviously (no deep tracks, guaranteed, except for maybe the last one). Leaving any Rush and Zeppelin out of the club or they'd up make most the list, and leaving Aerosmith and Van Halen out as I don't think they fit, though I wouldn't have put it past Diamond Dave to try and sneak a tinfoil-wrapped cucumber through airport security. 1. Ozzy -- Crazy Train (greatest opening riff ever?)2. The Scorpions -- The Zoo3. AC/DC -- You Shook Me All Night Long4. Def Leppard -- Let it Go5. Kiss -- Strutter6. Kiss -- 100,000 Years7. Metallica -- Enter Sandman8. Spinal Tap -- Big Bottom9. AC/DC -- Girls got Rhythm10. Iron Maiden -- Empire of the Clouds (because I love that someone wrote a song about the R101 disaster) Edited April 8, 2019 by Rutlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 From someone who's not at all Metal literate, obviously (no deep tracks, guaranteed, except for maybe the last one). Leaving any Rush and Zeppelin out of the club or they'd up make most the list, and leaving Aerosmith and Van Halen out as I don't think they fit, though I wouldn't have put it past Diamond Dave to try and sneak a tinfoil-wrapped cucumber through airport security. 1. Ozzy -- Crazy Train (greatest opening riff ever?)2. The Scorpions -- The Zoo3. AC/DC -- You Shook Me All Night Long4. Def Leppard -- Let it Go5. Kiss -- Strutter6. Kiss -- 100,000 Years7. Metallica -- Enter Sandman8. Spinal Tap -- Big Bottom9. AC/DC -- Girls got Rhythm10. Iron Maiden -- Empire of the Clouds (because I love that someone wrote a song about the R101 disaster) STRUTTER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2. The Scorpions -- The Zoo Great track. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 It's too difficult to whittle it down to 10 songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas King Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. That opening riff might be the most metal thing in Sabbath’s catalogue. It’s disgustingly sinister. That’s a bit of hyperbole but A National Acrobat is every bit as metal as anything else released in the 70s. If you want to argue metal didn’t begin until the 80s, then be my guest. If you compare a heavy metal style of early Black Sabbath on one side and sounds of Judas Priest and Iron Maiden on the other, you will see a huge difference. Iommi's guitar solos are very bluesy and psychedelic, while guitar solos of other two bands are not bluesy at all. Stained Class was a turning point in the heavy metal history, because JP discarded that bluesy element in metal that BS had. I would also say that Deep Purple was much more influential rhythm-wise on both Judas Priest and Iron Maiden than early Sabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 A National Acrobat I would say it's much more rock than metal. That opening riff might be the most metal thing in Sabbath’s catalogue. It’s disgustingly sinister. That’s a bit of hyperbole but A National Acrobat is every bit as metal as anything else released in the 70s. If you want to argue metal didn’t begin until the 80s, then be my guest. If you compare a heavy metal style of early Black Sabbath on one side and sounds of Judas Priest and Iron Maiden on the other, you will see a huge difference. Iommi's guitar solos are very bluesy and psychedelic, while guitar solos of other two bands are not bluesy at all. Stained Class was a turning point in the heavy metal history, because JP discarded that bluesy element in metal that BS had. I would also say that Deep Purple was much more influential rhythm-wise on both Judas Priest and Iron Maiden than early Sabs. The presence of blues elements in a song does not nullify it bring metal. I’d cite Sabbath but since you disagree, see Megadeth “I Ain’t Superstitious” and Metallica like half of Kill ‘Em All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas King Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 see Megadeth “I Ain’t Superstitious” That was a cover of some blues song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 see Megadeth “I Ain’t Superstitious” That was a metal cover of some blues song. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyLeeRoth Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 Fluff is metal. Orchid is metal. Changes is metal. Nope, nope and nope. First full-on heavy metal album(where every track is metal) is Stained Class and it was released in 1978. Nope. Black Sabbath. Released on February 13, 1970 in the U.K. Half of the tracks on self-titled are the stuff not much different than Jimi Hendrix Experience. It's far from a metal-defining album. Paranoid is a different story, it was much more metal. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is the least metal out of the first 6 BS albums.I don't know about sounding like 'Hendrix', but I'll give you it's definitely more blues based then their following albums. Still--it's the first metal album. Master Of Reality is definitely all-out bone-crunching-riff metal though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyLeeRoth Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 10. Warrant - Down Boys9. Kix - Don't Close Your Eyes8. Faster Pussycat - House of Pain7. Poison - Talk Dirty to Me6. Cinderella - Nobody's Fool5. Britny Fox - Girlschool4. Europe - Carrie3. Dokken - Dream Warriors2. Ratt - You're in Love1. White Lion - When the Children Cry No Cherry Pie? No way, Uncle Tom's Cabin all day, man! Down Boys, Talk Dirty To Me, Nobody's Fool and Dream Warriors are all good tunes though. Not gonna lie...Dokken are the ultimate "guilty pleasure" band for me! Not even ashamed!I freaking love the first three Ratt and Motley Crue albums, the first Cinderella album and most of what the original Dokken did. That was metal even if they looked like ravishing chicks. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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