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Congressional Hearings on Steroids


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Opening remarks by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Schilling, and Thomas are underway. McGwire stated he will not answer questions that rats out teammates and friends. Under oath Palmeiro and Sosa totally denied using 'roids. Everyone trashing Canseco's book as irresponsible and full of lies.
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Congress occasionally reminds MLB of its antitrust exemption. This is one such event. I'd be surprised if anything actually came out of this hearing. I saw some of Bunning's testimony. He talked about the owners' role in this, and how the homer revival meant big money. The onwers have even gone so far as to shrink ballparks or build smaller new ones, as a part of the way to get fans to come back. Also, a couple of families of kids who used steroids and later committed suicide testified. (One of the kids was the nephew of former major league pitcher Burt Hooton.) Selig and his cronies, along with the players, are doing all they can to stonewall on this issue. It remains to be seen if the truth ever comes out on this.
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QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 17 2005, 03:39 PM)
Congress occasionally reminds MLB of its antitrust exemption. This is one such event. I'd be surprised if anything actually came out of this hearing. I saw some of Bunning's testimony. He talked about the owners' role in this, and how the homer revival meant big money. The onwers have even gone so far as to shrink ballparks or build smaller new ones, as a part of the way to get fans to come back. Also, a couple of families of kids who used steroids and later committed suicide testified. (One of the kids was the nephew of former major league pitcher Burt Hooton.) Selig and his cronies, along with the players, are doing all they can to stonewall on this issue. It remains to be seen if the truth ever comes out on this.

Just like any other political bullrice....The truth gets buried under all the money....It's the reality of the world unfortunately.

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mcguire should have found a way to stay home or prepared some more positive comments. guess it's hard to stay positive if u are hiding something. i think he damaged his credibility today big time. wow for him to be in the same room as canseco must have really made his blood boil.
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QUOTE (daveyt @ Mar 17 2005, 06:31 PM)
mcguire should have found a way to stay home or prepared some more positive comments. guess it's hard to stay positive if u are hiding something. i think he damaged his credibility today big time. wow for him to be in the same room as canseco must have really made his blood boil.

At least McGwire doesn't profit from ratting out his teammates and friends like Canseco is doing. yes.gif

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 06:36 PM)
QUOTE (daveyt @ Mar 17 2005, 06:31 PM)
mcguire should have found a way to stay home or prepared some more positive comments. guess it's hard to stay positive if u are hiding something. i think he damaged his credibility today big time. wow for him to be in the same room as canseco must have really made his blood boil.

At least McGwire doesn't profit from ratting out his teammates and friends like Canseco is doing. yes.gif

Many have said that Canseco did the book for the money. McGwire is not in such a situation where he needs money, or feels he needs money. McGwire was unwilling to answer any questions about his past. It all seems so obvious to me as far as he's concerned.

 

I've said all along that these new homer records need asterisks next to them. The game has been rigged to allow for it to happen. Smaller parks, smaller strike zones, lower mounds, overexpansion that has led to dilution in pitching talent, and steroids have all played an integral part in allowing for the scam of today.

 

The testing system in place today is woefully inadequate. It must be strict and deal with the violators more harshly. A 10 game suspension? You gotta be kidding. They need to call a strike a strike and a ball a ball. The umps are finally starting to call the letter high strike, at least a lot more often than they did before. What happens when you destroy the integrity of the strike zone is allow for more walks and force pitchers to make more fat pitches. Pitchers have to throw more pitches to batters. Only a select few pitchers are given latitude in strike zones. They have to expand ballparks and make sure new ones are bigger. A homer has to be a homer. I understand that the foul poles were (or are) closer in older parks, though. Yankee Stadium's infamous Death Valley no longer exists, for example. I remember how the Astrodome was impossible. Not saying it should be like the old Astrodome was, but they gotta do something. Do people really enjoy watching a Texas Ranger game that takes 4 1/2 hours and has a final score of 14-9? And I hate to say it, but I think they're going to have to fold at least a couple of teams. MLB deliberately overexpanded for the quick buck. The players' union will never allow it, but it needs to be done. There are too many AAA pitchers in baseball today, and too many teams that are not going to get better anytime soon. Montreal was the farm club for the big markets for the last 10-15 years. There are going to be a number of teams that will never make it, because of finances and because a lack of a fan base.

 

Off my soapbox for now.

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QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 17 2005, 07:09 PM)
QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 06:36 PM)
QUOTE (daveyt @ Mar 17 2005, 06:31 PM)
mcguire should have found a way to stay home or prepared some more positive comments. guess it's hard to stay positive if u are hiding something. i think he damaged his credibility today big time. wow for him to be in the same room as canseco must have really made his blood boil.

At least McGwire doesn't profit from ratting out his teammates and friends like Canseco is doing. yes.gif

Many have said that Canseco did the book for the money. McGwire is not in such a situation where he needs money, or feels he needs money. McGwire was unwilling to answer any questions about his past. It all seems so obvious to me as far as he's concerned.

 

I've said all along that these new homer records need asterisks next to them. The game has been rigged to allow for it to happen. Smaller parks, smaller strike zones, lower mounds, overexpansion that has led to dilution in pitching talent, and steroids have all played an integral part in allowing for the scam of today.

 

The testing system in place today is woefully inadequate. It must be strict and deal with the violators more harshly. A 10 game suspension? You gotta be kidding. They need to call a strike a strike and a ball a ball. The umps are finally starting to call the letter high strike, at least a lot more often than they did before. What happens when you destroy the integrity of the strike zone is allow for more walks and force pitchers to make more fat pitches. Pitchers have to throw more pitches to batters. Only a select few pitchers are given latitude in strike zones. They have to expand ballparks and make sure new ones are bigger. A homer has to be a homer. I understand that the foul poles were (or are) closer in older parks, though. Yankee Stadium's infamous Death Valley no longer exists, for example. I remember how the Astrodome was impossible. Not saying it should be like the old Astrodome was, but they gotta do something. Do people really enjoy watching a Texas Ranger game that takes 4 1/2 hours and has a final score of 14-9? And I hate to say it, but I think they're going to have to fold at least a couple of teams. MLB deliberately overexpanded for the quick buck. The players' union will never allow it, but it needs to be done. There are too many AAA pitchers in baseball today, and too many teams that are not going to get better anytime soon. Montreal was the farm club for the big markets for the last 10-15 years. There are going to be a number of teams that will never make it, because of finances and because a lack of a fan base.

 

Off my soapbox for now.

I'm not denying McGwire may have something to hide or not. It's look more and more that he does but Canseco ratting out people to make money is just strike me as not right. Why didn't he speak up years ago? Why didn't he just go to the feds rather than write a book and make money that way? Surely you don't think Canseco did it for the love of the game. What would you do? Would you spill the beans to the world about your friends and teammates to make a buck or go to the proper authorities and speak your mind? Naming names is one thing but to make money off of it is another. Also Sosa and Palmeiro vehemently denied using steroids under oath. McGwire just said he wouldn't be naming names, it doesn't mean he won't reveal his own indicretions(maybe he will shut his mouth, too early to tell). I don't think they risked perjury and lie about something like that. Should be interesting when Canseco begins his testimony. The fact of the matter is the boys at top didn't do nothing about it. They had to bring the game back and this was their way of doing it. Like I said money talks and bullrice walks. As for asterisks for the records I don't know what to think of it because the reality of it as wrong as it is to use them it was not illegal in baseball at the time. Therein lies the problem with the asterisk question.

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 07:43 PM)
QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 17 2005, 07:09 PM)
QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 06:36 PM)
QUOTE (daveyt @ Mar 17 2005, 06:31 PM)
mcguire should have found a way to stay home or prepared some more positive comments. guess it's hard to stay positive if u are hiding something. i think he damaged his credibility today big time. wow for him to be in the same room as canseco must have really made his blood boil.

At least McGwire doesn't profit from ratting out his teammates and friends like Canseco is doing. yes.gif

Many have said that Canseco did the book for the money. McGwire is not in such a situation where he needs money, or feels he needs money. McGwire was unwilling to answer any questions about his past. It all seems so obvious to me as far as he's concerned.

 

I've said all along that these new homer records need asterisks next to them. The game has been rigged to allow for it to happen. Smaller parks, smaller strike zones, lower mounds, overexpansion that has led to dilution in pitching talent, and steroids have all played an integral part in allowing for the scam of today.

 

The testing system in place today is woefully inadequate. It must be strict and deal with the violators more harshly. A 10 game suspension? You gotta be kidding. They need to call a strike a strike and a ball a ball. The umps are finally starting to call the letter high strike, at least a lot more often than they did before. What happens when you destroy the integrity of the strike zone is allow for more walks and force pitchers to make more fat pitches. Pitchers have to throw more pitches to batters. Only a select few pitchers are given latitude in strike zones. They have to expand ballparks and make sure new ones are bigger. A homer has to be a homer. I understand that the foul poles were (or are) closer in older parks, though. Yankee Stadium's infamous Death Valley no longer exists, for example. I remember how the Astrodome was impossible. Not saying it should be like the old Astrodome was, but they gotta do something. Do people really enjoy watching a Texas Ranger game that takes 4 1/2 hours and has a final score of 14-9? And I hate to say it, but I think they're going to have to fold at least a couple of teams. MLB deliberately overexpanded for the quick buck. The players' union will never allow it, but it needs to be done. There are too many AAA pitchers in baseball today, and too many teams that are not going to get better anytime soon. Montreal was the farm club for the big markets for the last 10-15 years. There are going to be a number of teams that will never make it, because of finances and because a lack of a fan base.

 

Off my soapbox for now.

I'm not denying McGwire may have something to hide or not. It's look more and more that he does but Canseco ratting out people to make money is just strike me as not right. Why didn't he speak up years ago? Why didn't he just go to the feds rather than write a book and make money that way? Surely you don't think Canseco did it for the love of the game. What would you do? Would you spill the beans to the world about your friends and teammates to make a buck or go to the proper authorities and speak your mind? Naming names is one thing but to make money off of it is another. Also Sosa and Palmeiro vehemently denied using steroids under oath. McGwire just said he wouldn't be naming names, it doesn't mean he won't reveal his own indicretions(maybe he will shut his mouth, too early to tell). I don't think they risked perjury and lie about something like that. Should be interesting when Canseco begins his testimony. The fact of the matter is the boys at top didn't do nothing about it. They had to bring the game back and this was their way of doing it. Like I said money talks and bullrice walks. As for asterisks for the records I don't know what to think of it because the reality of it as wrong as it is to use them it was not illegal in baseball at the time. Therein lies the problem with the asterisk question.

Also it's ok for Canseco to write a book ratting out everybody but won't talk at the hearings? Nuff said.

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If Canseco had immunity at the hearings, he might be more likely to talk. If Congress was serious about reviewing the antitrust exemption, they'd give Canseco immunity to try to get to the bottom of it. Not that that would do it, though. Players can say what they want up there, even under oath. There won't be any real way to prove they did steroids, so they'll never be tried for perjury. At least that's probably how they perceive it.

 

Otherwise, what Canseco did was break the code of honor among ball players, if one can call it honor. Yeah, he ratted them out for his own financial gain. He should have gone to authorities before speaking with a publishing agent. This is not unlike Jim Bouton's Ball Four.

 

To me, the integrity of the game has been impugned badly over the past 10-15 years. Ball players were never known for saintliness, but this is pretty bad. Becaue the integrity of the game has been so compromised as to allow for more homeruns and records to fall, the asterisks belong in my mind. Even if they don't use asterisks in the record book, they'll always be in my mind.

 

 

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 02:57 PM)
Opening remarks by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Schilling, and Thomas are underway. McGwire stated he will not answer questions that rats out teammates and friends. Under oath Palmeiro and Sosa totally denied using 'roids. Everyone trashing Canseco's book as irresponsible and full of lies.

What, did you expect them to admit it?

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Are they really friends? I know they used to play together in Oakland but do they still hang out as friends or what? Maybe Jose truly wants to help baseball. If ratting people out somehow opens up everyones eyes and helps even one person in the future then I say it was worth it. It's not like the guys are going to jail for something they did 10 years ago. I haven't read his book but I really don't care that he narked people out, if they did it then whatever, lets get it all out on the table, lets get something done about this problem, it's not fair to the old timers who's records are being broken by cheaters.
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QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 17 2005, 11:49 PM)
QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 02:57 PM)
Opening remarks by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Schilling, and Thomas are underway.  McGwire stated he will not answer questions that rats out teammates and friends.  Under oath Palmeiro and Sosa totally denied using 'roids.  Everyone trashing Canseco's book as irresponsible and full of lies.

What, did you expect them to admit it?

If they truly want to help the game yeah. And they are under oath where the penalty of perjury applies. Doesn't hurt to admit it as it was not illegal when they were usuing 'roids and breaking all the records. The league is under the gun the most anyways.

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QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 17 2005, 11:53 PM)
Are they really friends? I know they used to play together in Oakland but do they still hang out as friends or what? Maybe Jose truly wants to help baseball. If ratting people out somehow opens up everyones eyes and helps even one person in the future then I say it was worth it. It's not like the guys are going to jail for something they did 10 years ago. I haven't read his book but I really don't care that he narked people out, if they did it then whatever, lets get it all out on the table, lets get something done about this problem, it's not fair to the old timers who's records are being broken by cheaters.

So you think it's all right for Canseco to make money off this??? sarcasm.gif

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 18 2005, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 17 2005, 11:53 PM)
Are they really friends? I know they used to play together in Oakland but do they still hang out as friends or what? Maybe Jose truly wants to help baseball. If ratting people out somehow opens up everyones eyes and helps even one person in the future then I say it was worth it. It's not like the guys are going to jail for something they did 10 years ago. I haven't read his book but I really don't care that he narked people out, if they did it then whatever, lets get it all out on the table, lets get something done about this problem, it's not fair to the old timers who's records are being broken by cheaters.

So you think it's all right for Canseco to make money off this??? sarcasm.gif

Off his book, sure, theres a lot worse books out there that people are making money on like any ann coulter book for instance. He's just doing what just about anyone else would do if they had the chance. I know I would be, I would write a book right now about anything if I knew a shitload of people would run out and buy it, hell, why not, moneys money, it all spends. If it opens peoples eyes and eventually helps the game then that's a bonus.

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QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 17 2005, 11:49 PM)
QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 17 2005, 02:57 PM)
Opening remarks by McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Schilling, and Thomas are underway.  McGwire stated he will not answer questions that rats out teammates and friends.  Under oath Palmeiro and Sosa totally denied using 'roids.  Everyone trashing Canseco's book as irresponsible and full of lies.

What, did you expect them to admit it?

Of course not. no.gif

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Found this article:

 

Poll: Most Americans want steroid users out of baseball's record books

 

March 17, 2005

By a 2-1 margin, Americans think professional baseball players who have broken Major League Baseball's rules by using performance-enhancing drugs should not be allowed to remain in the record books, a poll found.

 

The ABC-ESPN poll of 1,019 adults was taken March 11-15 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, and 4 percentage points for baseball fans.

 

Some other findings:

 

 

-- Two-thirds said that ``such athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs'' should not be eligible for the Hall of Fame.

 

-- Almost two-thirds said Major League Baseball is not doing enough to prevent steroid use in baseball.

 

-- Two-thirds, 65 percent, thought Major League Baseball should be responsible for creating and enforcing rules about steroid use in baseball, while 30 percent said the federal government should be responsible.

 

-- Eight in 10 said they are concerned that the use of performance-enhancing drugs by well-known athletes encourages young people to use those drugs.

 

-- Almost three-fourths said Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants should have been called to testify before Congress.

 

 

 

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I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

 

 

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QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

 

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QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

Is he the new commissioner of baseball or something? If not I agree with him that it's not for him to determine. It's his way of getting out of answering the question, he probably don't want to come out and just admit he's a cheater. He answered the question like a politician would when they don't want to admit their guilt.

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QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 19 2005, 07:57 PM)
QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

Is he the new commissioner of baseball or something? If not I agree with him that it's not for him to determine. It's his way of getting out of answering the question, he probably don't want to come out and just admit he's a cheater. He answered the question like a politician would when they don't want to admit their guilt.

He's just listening to his lawyer. He probably has alot to say and wants to say but his lawyer's telling him to shut up to protect his ass.

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Mar 19 2005, 08:01 PM)
QUOTE (Indica @ Mar 19 2005, 07:57 PM)
QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

Is he the new commissioner of baseball or something? If not I agree with him that it's not for him to determine. It's his way of getting out of answering the question, he probably don't want to come out and just admit he's a cheater. He answered the question like a politician would when they don't want to admit their guilt.

He's just listening to his lawyer. He probably has alot to say and wants to say but his lawyer's telling him to shut up to protect his ass.

 

Yeah, the less he says the better as far as hurting himself in any way. Say one wrong thing and people will never shut up about it, just look what people are saying when he doesn't even say hardly anything. Personally, he's in a lose-lose situation right now.

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QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

You're right ak. I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me. I reviewed his testimony and he actually said that he didn't want to delve into the past when he was asked whether he could tell today's youth that he did not cheat at baseball. I guess he said "that's not for me to determine" so much and so often that I got confused. Sorry for the mis-information.

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QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 20 2005, 02:04 AM)
QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

You're right ak. I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me. I reviewed his testimony and he actually said that he didn't want to delve into the past when he was asked whether he could tell today's youth that he did not cheat at baseball. I guess he said "that's not for me to determine" so much and so often that I got confused. Sorry for the mis-information.

No problem whatsoever. This is all so sickening, isn't it? I've been a fan so long, and I just don't know what to think of all this. I've believed this has gone on for at least 15 years, and as a longtime fan I'm just numb as to what is going to happen to the game. I've never believed baseball to be perfect, and a game played with the utmost of honor or integrity, but this is just beyond the pale. I think of guys like Mays and Aaron and Maris who played the right way, and it's just sickening to see this. It makes 714 homers on a diet of beer and hot dogs seem even more endearing, really. I think there's a lot more about this that we don't know, and we might not ever learn about it. The owners are just as screwed as the players if the real truth is exposed for all to see. They are very likely at least as complicit in this whole fiasco. All parties dragged their feet on this issue for a long time.

 

I keep thinking the worst is over in regards to how the game is played, but I see Sosa is as big as a house this year, and I get the feeling he's going to have a monster year because of that. Unless of course he gets injured.

 

I think of what this has done to baseball. Aaron went through hell to get to 755. He received death threats when he was breaking Ruth's record. And now we see Bonds and 062802puke_prv.gif He's going to get the record once he recovers from his latest steroid related injury. Those knee joints get taxed heavily on steroids because of the added weight that taxes the joints even more. I think of Giambi winning the MVP in 2000 while juicing. It should have been Frank Thomas that year. Had he won it instead, he would then have had three MVPs, which is a sure ticket to the Hall of Fame. As Bunning said this week, players are supposed to be getting worse in their late 30s and early 40s, not peaking. Even Roger Clemens over the past few years seems suspicious. One has to wonder there. And who knows who else does this stuff?

 

Off my soapbox, again.

 

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QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 20 2005, 02:23 AM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 20 2005, 02:04 AM)
QUOTE (anagramking @ Mar 19 2005, 01:04 PM)
QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 19 2005, 12:38 PM)
I just have one thing to add to all this. I was shocked at McGwire's "non-testimony". No, I didn't expect him to admit to any use of steroids. But when he was asked point-blank whether or not he thought steroids were bad for today's youth, he said "that's not for me to determine". Huh?, wha..? I had to re-read that a couple of times just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.

I had thought he said that it wasn't for him to determine whether or not using steroids is "cheating." If what you said is correct as well, then his testimony is even more disturbing.

You're right ak. I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me. I reviewed his testimony and he actually said that he didn't want to delve into the past when he was asked whether he could tell today's youth that he did not cheat at baseball. I guess he said "that's not for me to determine" so much and so often that I got confused. Sorry for the mis-information.

No problem whatsoever. This is all so sickening, isn't it? I've been a fan so long, and I just don't know what to think of all this. I've believed this has gone on for at least 15 years, and as a longtime fan I'm just numb as to what is going to happen to the game. I've never believed baseball to be perfect, and a game played with the utmost of honor or integrity, but this is just beyond the pale. I think of guys like Mays and Aaron and Maris who played the right way, and it's just sickening to see this. It makes 714 homers on a diet of beer and hot dogs seem even more endearing, really. I think there's a lot more about this that we don't know, and we might not ever learn about it. The owners are just as screwed as the players if the real truth is exposed for all to see. They are very likely at least as complicit in this whole fiasco. All parties dragged their feet on this issue for a long time.

 

I keep thinking the worst is over in regards to how the game is played, but I see Sosa is as big as a house this year, and I get the feeling he's going to have a monster year because of that. Unless of course he gets injured.

 

I think of what this has done to baseball. Aaron went through hell to get to 755. He received death threats when he was breaking Ruth's record. And now we see Bonds and 062802puke_prv.gif He's going to get the record once he recovers from his latest steroid related injury. Those knee joints get taxed heavily on steroids because of the added weight that taxes the joints even more. I think of Giambi winning the MVP in 2000 while juicing. It should have been Frank Thomas that year. Had he won it instead, he would then have had three MVPs, which is a sure ticket to the Hall of Fame. As Bunning said this week, players are supposed to be getting worse in their late 30s and early 40s, not peaking. Even Roger Clemens over the past few years seems suspicious. One has to wonder there. And who knows who else does this stuff?

 

Off my soapbox, again.

So many good points here, I don't know where to start. I am not actually a big-time baseball fan, although I watch the LCS and World Series no matter what. You are quite correct about the diet of root beers and hot dogs and performance. In Babe Ruth's case at least, we know there was more than root in that beer. It's astounding really. Their records will always stand out to me. Especially guys like Maris and Mays. How damn regal has Mays been in all this? It's amazing to me that he just keeps quiet and lets the chips fall where they may. What a class act.

 

Good point about Frank Thomas, too. He has always been big. This guy looks looks like his mother probably went through complete hell just to birth him. I don't think he got that way through steroids. He's just a big guy period.

 

Tangentially, I have seen some mentions that steroids don't improve hand/eye coordination. OK, fair enough. But has anyone ever seen a little leaguer try to swing a major league bat? They can't do it. Neither could I when I played at that lvel. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: if you are so damn strong that the bat feeels as weightless as a toothpick, you are going to be able to generate a tremendous amount of bat speed. If this extra strength is a result of physical enhancement, then it is indeed cheating.

 

You're right. This whole mess is sickening. Ah, my young days of collecting cards are so far behind me now.

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QUOTE (war2112 @ Mar 20 2005, 02:49 AM)
So many good points here, I don't know where to start. I am not actually a big-time baseball fan, although I watch the LCS and World Series no matter what. You are quite correct about the diet of root beers and hot dogs and performance. In Babe Ruth's case at least, we know there was more than root in that beer. It's astounding really. Their records will always stand out to me. Especially guys like Maris and Mays. How damn regal has Mays been in all this? It's amazing to me that he just keeps quiet and lets the chips fall where they may. What a class act.

Good point about Frank Thomas, too. He has always been big. This guy looks looks like his mother probably went through complete hell just to birth him. I don't think he got that way through steroids. He's just a big guy period.

Tangentially, I have seen some mentions that steroids don't improve hand/eye coordination. OK, fair enough. But has anyone ever seen a little leaguer try to swing a major league bat? They can't do it. Neither could I when I played at that lvel. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: if you are so damn strong that the bat feeels as weightless as a toothpick, you are going to be able to generate a tremendous amount of bat speed. If this extra strength is a result of physical enhancement, then it is indeed cheating.

You're right. This whole mess is sickening. Ah, my young days of collecting cards are so far behind me now.

I think Frank Thomas played tight end at Auburn before his MLB career. He's always been big. Mays also happens to be Bonds' godfather. It all seems so bizarre. And strangely, I've read that there's anecdotal evidence suggesting that HGH (human growth hormone) can improve one's vision. HGH is not one of the drugs being tested in the agreement. That's pathetic in and of itself. In 2003, when Bonds hit 73 homers, his head supposedly grew two hat sizes. Giambi supposedly has a benign tumor in his pituitary gland. The pituitary gland is where HGH is naturally secreted. I don't know if you ever read Lyle Alzado's article, published in SI, that he wrote shortly before his death. He talked about taking steroids and HGH, and all of what it did to him. I think Bonds will be lucky to live to age 50 if he's taking these drugs. The effects of all this stuff aren't going to be readily apparent for a few more years. Anyway, the improved vision and the added bat speed combine well for Bonds. He was already a fine player when he started out, but now, unreal and inhuman. Getting better as he gets older. Yeah, right. With increased bat speed, one can wait on a pitch for a split second longer. That's a big advantage. I go to the batting cage and try to hit 85 mph, which isn't very fast by MLB standards. I have to time the pitch perfectly to get my bat on it. I can't wait to figure out whether to swing. I have to get the bat going. I imagine what it would be like if there was movement on the pitch, or if it was coming for my head. What would I do? Well, that's me, chasing a long gone dream, and not a big leaguer by any stretch of the imagination. laugh.gif

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