choice on drums?

[PhilsFriendMatt]

So I have almost been drumming for one year now I know hold back your enthusiasm. In the beginning it was kind of tough to get into it because I got depressed I didn't know anything but it's amazing what sitting down and ever screwing around for a little while every day can do for you. I used to watch youtube videos to see how to drum songs; those days are long gone. It's all ears now and out of no where I can drum. Now that I spend any where from 1-5 hours a day behind my drums I've decided by years end I should have something a little nicer. I currently am playing on standard size tama imperialstars with b8s all around me and some roto toms. The shells are made of poplar and are a complete pain to tune right. The b8s are nice because of their price, so I was able to surround myself with more than enough cymbals to hit. But I feel by the time I'm at two years of drumming I should move off a beginners kit with beginner cymbals and move up to some big boy drums. Starting this week I'm going to put between $100-$150 a week into savings so by years end I can have new shells and cymbals. So this brings me to you guys for advice. I would love some suggestions on shells. Although my imperialstars are cheap they are still pretty well made which had me leaning toward some starclassics. I also tried out some maple renowns from gretsch and those were very nice sounding as well. I'm not really a huge fan of pearl idk why so I really dont know if I would go with them.And of course there is dw.Anyway thoughts or ideas?

ps anybody played the starclassic mirage series(the acrylic ones) they look beautiful but I would take sound over looks any day of the week

[rushdownunder]

Don't go rushing into a professional series kit just yet. From what you've said about your playing experiences, I don't think you're ready for it.

 

Stick with what you've got for a little while longer, and when you do decide to upgrade, there's no need to go the whole hog. Hell, I've been playing for over 10 years, and my kit is only a Premier Cabria, which is a mid-range series.

 

How much effort have you put into the proper tuning and setup of your kit? Have you ever had formal drum lessons? Things like this will change your playing style for the better, and your drums will sound instantly better.

 

Drums are kind of like cars. Start off with an old rustbucket, and learn to appreciate how it feels. Then in time, upgrade. And when you do decide to upgrade, don't go for something just because it looks good.

 

When it comes to drums, use your ears, not your eyes.

[PhilsFriendMatt]

QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Jan 6 2009, 05:35 PM)

Don't go rushing into a professional series kit just yet. From what you've said about your playing experiences, I don't think you're ready for it. Stick with what you've got for a little while longer, and when you do decide to upgrade, there's no need to go the whole hog. Hell, I've been playing for over 10 years, and my kit is only a Premier Cabria, which is a mid-range series. How much effort have you put into the proper tuning and setup of your kit? Have you ever had formal drum lessons? Things like this will change your playing style for the better, and your drums will sound instantly better. Drums are kind of like cars. Start off with an old rustbucket, and learn to appreciate how it feels. Then in time, upgrade. And when you do decide to upgrade, don't go for something just because it looks good. When it comes to drums, use your ears, not your eyes.

Thanks for the advice. Ill probably go along with it and wait a little longer; hey it only means I have more time to save.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Gretsch is now making some nice low end kits, the Catalina series. The best of these is the Catalina Maples. Also the Pacific Drum Company, owned by DW also make inexpensive maple kits that will be higher quality for a lower price.

 

Never go cheap on cymbals though. Cymbal packs are a good way to go to get bang for your buck.

Edited January 6, 2009 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[PhilsFriendMatt]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 6 2009, 06:53 PM)

Gretsch is now making some nice low end kits, the Catalina series. The best of these is the Catalina Maples. Also the Pacific Drum Company, owned by DW also make inexpensive maple kits that will be higher quality for a lower price. Never go cheap on cymbals though. Cymbal packs are a good way to go to get bang for your buck.

I almost totally forgot about pdp. I played one of their premier kits(the maple ones) down at guitar center and it sounded great. And I also found a gretsch catalina maple kit a while back on musicians friend for only $500. 2 mounted toms and 2 floor toms and the color was pretty nice to match. Ive never had the chance to play a catalina kit though. And I was already looking at the a custom cymbal pre pack. Cant go wrong with that considering it now comes with a free 18" crash

[fledgehog]

Have you considered Yamaha? Maple, Birch, and Oak customs are all fantastic drums, and the Stage Customs give you the most bang for your buck in terms of intermediate-level kits by far. I've got a stage custom that's nearly 10 years old, and mahogony (an inferior wood to the birch that's currently being used), and with proper heads and tuning it sounds amazing; in fact i'm most likely going to be recording with it later this year. Not to mention that all the hardware still feels like it's brand new.

 

Also, I'd suggest upgrading your cymbals, snare and possibly hardware before getting a whole new kit.

[PhilsFriendMatt]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jan 6 2009, 08:14 PM)

Have you considered Yamaha? Maple, Birch, and Oak customs are all fantastic drums, and the Stage Customs give you the most bang for your buck in terms of intermediate-level kits by far. I've got a stage custom that's nearly 10 years old, and mahogony (an inferior wood to the birch that's currently being used), and with proper heads and tuning it sounds amazing; in fact i'm most likely going to be recording with it later this year. Not to mention that all the hardware still feels like it's brand new. Also, I'd suggest upgrading your cymbals, snare and possibly hardware before getting a whole new kit.

Noted. I thought I already made a post about snares but now looking back apparently I typed everything in and them maybe just left. I already was planning on getting a new snare and was at guitar center the other day looking at them. I played a few of them and a tama artisan titanium caught my ear. I didn't even know they made a titanium model but it was marked over $200 off so they may be discontinuing it. Anyway it sounded great it had great pop and at the same time a nice warm tone when played softer. Also I slowly have been switching my b8s for xs20s; not the greatest but a step up. And honestly the tama hardware that came with the kit is excellent. I did swap out the pedal for a double dw 7000. The hi hat stand has been swapped out for a pdp dual legged stand( I didnt have $350 to spend on the same thing with dws name on it). The one cymbal grabber by tama that came with the kit is just about the heaviest grabber I have ever seen and could support any cymbal with proper balancing. But yea the snare is getting to the point of extreme annoyance. Its got all new heads(well they were new its just about clear now in the most contacted area, and its got an evans e ring or else it resonates non stop and its not a good resonate its more of a tinny sound which bugs the hell out of me). Also before I checked back in this post I spent about an hour looking at yamahas online. I havent had a chance to play any yet but I have considered them

[PhilsFriendMatt]

sorry artwood not artisan my mistake. And looking at the color lineup online apparently they have a color titanium. Well now that I feel completely humiliated by my lack of common sense I think I may just got buy it. Its an all maple snare by the way

[kazzman]

And I thought I would get away from my job for a night here...

 

The first thing I'm going to tell you is that everybody has a different opinion on what kits are good and which ones aren't. The best advice I can give you is to take our suggestions and try all of the kits out and see which one fits your style the best.

 

The Yamaha kits are nice for the money, but what I don't like about them is their mounting system is suspended right off of the shell of the drum. If not taken care of properly, this can cause wear on the drum in the long run.

 

With my experience with all of the mid-level kits, the one's that really stick out to me are the PDP FS and X7 series kits, as well as the Pearl Vision series kits. With the Pearl you have several different selections (as well as different price points).

 

- VX: The most affordable of them all. The shell is constructed from a hybrid of both birch and basswood. This gives you the attack and projection of a birch shell, and the depth that a basswood shell will give you. The tom sizes are in a standard configuration (12" & 13" rack, 16" floor, 22" bass w/14" snare).

 

-VSX: The same exact thing as the VX series, except the drums come in fusion sizes (10" & 12" rack, 14" floor 22" bass w/14" snare).

 

-VBX: 100% Birch shells. These will be more expensive than the VX and VSX kits but they give you a better overall sound. The birch shell will give you a nice attack with the sound and would be ideal for recording. Available in both standard and fusion sizes.

 

-VMX: 100% Maple shells. Same price point as the VBX and is available in both standard and fusion sizes. The maple is going to give you a warmer and deeper overall tone than the birch will and is ideal for live situations (I'm a fan of maple shells personally and I see these as the better buy, but again, that's just my own opinion).

 

And to break down the PDP kits for you:

 

-FS: 100% Birch shell. Best kit available at it's price point, IMO. The drums come in a fusion size and have DW's STM mounting system (the mounts fit in around the lugs on the drum and hold it up that way, taking all tension off of the shells or rims and don't rub against your tension rods).

 

-X7: 100% Poplar shell (as per DW). You get a 7 piece kit (8,10,12,14, &16 toms, 22 kick and 14 snare). The bass drum is one of those rare kicks that sounds amazing right out of the box. For being a poplar kit, the toms really give out a great attack and sustain. Contains DW's STM mounting system on this kit as well. The only thing I would recommend doing is replacing the snare drum on this kit though as it doesn't seem to give the desired crack that many drummers are looking for.

 

As far as cymbals go, the prepacks are nice and are a great bang for the buck as far as the higher end ones go, but I'm more of a fan of selecting the individual cymbals that you personally like. Though I can tell you right off the bat that you don't want anything with "B8" "ZBT" "XS" "ZHT" "Z Custom" "PST3" "PST5" or "Agazarian" on them.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Don't you think the Pearls sound a little boxy? Even their pro kits sound boxy to me.

 

I would have to agree about the PDP tom mounts, good design. Better than the Gretsch. But I prefer the tone of the Gretsches personally. It's all about the bearing edge.

[rushdownunder]

A few other things to keep in mind...

 

1. In the words of Elvin Jones, "it aint the drums, it's the drummer!". A lot of players think that if they have top of the line equipment, that they'll sound amazing. Not true. I've heard some really amazing drummers play on pretty ordinary kits, and they make them sound great.

 

2. Whether it's your current kit of a new one, the drumheads will make the most difference to the sound. Educate yourself about heads, what the different varieties do, how they work. A good drumhead can make a crappy drum come alive.

 

3. Drumsticks are another thing that will make a difference to the sound you produce. Don't be afraid to search long and hard to find a stick that's just right for you. The type of drumstick you use will influence the way you play.

 

4. When you do go for a new kit, try to go for what you would like, rather than what your favorite players use. A lot of young drummers I know tend to buy things just because it has a certain players endorsement.

 

Above all, use your ears and take your time when selecting your instrument. Remember, you're going to have it for a while!

[PhilsFriendMatt]

thanks for all the advice. cygnus i completely agree about the boxy sound coming from pearls and the tom mounts on pdp. The tom mounts on the catalina gretsch look at a little weak; Ive read the reviews and apparently they hold up. Its not the tom mounts themselves its the ball mount they are on its very thin. I do like the gretsch sound though its probably my favorite out of all drums. It havent found a set Ive played yet that gave me a tone I like more than the maple renown kit. As far as the other advice all of my heads are new. I havent yet tried anything other than pinstripes on my toms. Ive heard evans has ones with hydraulic fluid sandwiched between two layers and it gives you a deader sound which I personally am a fan of. And pro endorsements dont really pursuade me. My buddys keep telling me when I get high end cymbals I should get paragons but I really have no desire to. Its a good sounding cymbals but its the sound neil wants and I dont want it just because its on his set. Also the stick advice; I learned pretty early on im a hard hitter. I started out with 2bs and those lasted about a week; im deffinatly not a jazz drummer. I moved on trying 5bs and 5as both which are pretty nice. I ended up trying taylor hawkins(foo fighters) signature sticks and I love them. They are just a little bit heavier than the 5bs but just about the same length and have a ball shaped end on them instead of a teardrop. I thought they looked kind of goofy having never used that style before but after the first time I played them I fell in love with them. Thanks everyone for the great advice

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (PhilsFriendMatt @ Jan 6 2009, 06:06 PM)

So I have almost been drumming for one year now I know hold back your enthusiasm. In the beginning it was kind of tough to get into it because I got depressed I didn't know anything but it's amazing what sitting down and ever screwing around for a little while every day can do for you. I used to watch youtube videos to see how to drum songs; those days are long gone. It's all ears now and out of no where I can drum. Now that I spend any where from 1-5 hours a day behind my drums I've decided by years end I should have something a little nicer. I currently am playing on standard size tama imperialstars with b8s all around me and some roto toms. The shells are made of poplar and are a complete pain to tune right. The b8s are nice because of their price, so I was able to surround myself with more than enough cymbals to hit. But I feel by the time I'm at two years of drumming I should move off a beginners kit with beginner cymbals and move up to some big boy drums. Starting this week I'm going to put between $100-$150 a week into savings so by years end I can have new shells and cymbals. So this brings me to you guys for advice. I would love some suggestions on shells. Although my imperialstars are cheap they are still pretty well made which had me leaning toward some starclassics. I also tried out some maple renowns from gretsch and those were very nice sounding as well. I'm not really a huge fan of pearl idk why so I really dont know if I would go with them.And of course there is dw.Anyway thoughts or ideas? ps anybody played the starclassic mirage series(the acrylic ones) they look beautiful but I would take sound over looks any day of the week

If you can afford it, Tama Starclassic or DW's. I own a Tama Grandstar Custom (Japenese birch). I've loved that kit from the day I bought it. That being said, I've also fallen in love the maple Starclassic (nice low end).

 

However, DW takes the cake for me. Whether you want birch or maple, DW delivers for me. The maple kit, has a deep rich tone that I couldn't find many other kits that could compare. I compared a ton of kits against one another & found that DW is ahead of most. It seems that Tama & DW are linked in an odd way for hardware. Apparently, they have been 'pirating' each others designs for years now. Which is also the reason I like both. The hardware on both are really unmatched. I would still give the 'Edge' (pun intended) to DW. They have too many options & the timbre matching is almost impossible for someone to really hate them. Most of the people who don't like the sound of DW own Pearl's (I owned one for a short time-Session kit which was their best sounding kit & affordable pricing). I found that most Tama owners like DW's & vice-versa. Yamaha owners seem to have a world on their own. I also don't like all those who generalize.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (PhilsFriendMatt @ Jan 6 2009, 06:06 PM)

So I have almost been drumming for one year now I know hold back your enthusiasm. In the beginning it was kind of tough to get into it because I got depressed I didn't know anything but it's amazing what sitting down and ever screwing around for a little while every day can do for you. I used to watch youtube videos to see how to drum songs; those days are long gone. It's all ears now and out of no where I can drum. Now that I spend any where from 1-5 hours a day behind my drums I've decided by years end I should have something a little nicer. I currently am playing on standard size tama imperialstars with b8s all around me and some roto toms. The shells are made of poplar and are a complete pain to tune right. The b8s are nice because of their price, so I was able to surround myself with more than enough cymbals to hit. But I feel by the time I'm at two years of drumming I should move off a beginners kit with beginner cymbals and move up to some big boy drums. Starting this week I'm going to put between $100-$150 a week into savings so by years end I can have new shells and cymbals. So this brings me to you guys for advice. I would love some suggestions on shells. Although my imperialstars are cheap they are still pretty well made which had me leaning toward some starclassics. I also tried out some maple renowns from gretsch and those were very nice sounding as well. I'm not really a huge fan of pearl idk why so I really dont know if I would go with them.And of course there is dw.Anyway thoughts or ideas? ps anybody played the starclassic mirage series(the acrylic ones) they look beautiful but I would take sound over looks any day of the week

Oh, for cymbals, Zildjian or Sabian are my choice. My suggestion is to simply go in store & try them. You will hear the ones you like. Trust me. Ears do not lie.

I've found that Sabian & Zildjian can complement each other nicely. So, either of the two. Cast cymbals only. No sheet cymbals. I hate sheet cymbals.

 

 

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (PhilsFriendMatt @ Jan 7 2009, 04:35 AM)

thanks for all the advice. cygnus i completely agree about the boxy sound coming from pearls and the tom mounts on pdp. The tom mounts on the catalina gretsch look at a little weak; Ive read the reviews and apparently they hold up. Its not the tom mounts themselves its the ball mount they are on its very thin. I do like the gretsch sound though its probably my favorite out of all drums. It havent found a set Ive played yet that gave me a tone I like more than the maple renown kit. As far as the other advice all of my heads are new. I havent yet tried anything other than pinstripes on my toms. Ive heard evans has ones with hydraulic fluid sandwiched between two layers and it gives you a deader sound which I personally am a fan of. And pro endorsements dont really pursuade me. My buddys keep telling me when I get high end cymbals I should get paragons but I really have no desire to. Its a good sounding cymbals but its the sound neil wants and I dont want it just because its on his set. Also the stick advice; I learned pretty early on im a hard hitter. I started out with 2bs and those lasted about a week; im deffinatly not a jazz drummer. I moved on trying 5bs and 5as both which are pretty nice. I ended up trying taylor hawkins(foo fighters) signature sticks and I love them. They are just a little bit heavier than the 5bs but just about the same length and have a ball shaped end on them instead of a teardrop. I thought they looked kind of goofy having never used that style before but after the first time I played them I fell in love with them. Thanks everyone for the great advice

I have two identical Gretsch Renown kits, plus extra 8" and 16" toms. They are easily the best sounding kit for the money. When discussing this with my buddy from Guitar Center (their top drum guy nationally btw) he agrees with me. His view is the Renowns sound almost as good as the USA Custom Gretsch kits. He has two USA Custom kits (one of which is the Vinny Colauta signature kit) and had a couple Renown kits along the line. He has said on occasion "Do the USA Customs sound 2 to 3 thousand dollars better than the Renown? No!" The USA Custom kits have better sounding bass drums to me, but aside from that the Renowns are pretty equivalent.

 

Also I am a big fan of the wood grain finishes that Gretsch has. I am not a fan of plastic covered drums of any kind. Both Renown and Catalinas have wood finishes.

 

As for cymbals I also agree that Paragons are pretty much for Neil. The ride is really nice and the splashes are excellent and are the most versatile of the line. I also really like Zildjian's new K Custom Hybribs. I have a 17" and a 19" and almost bought a 15" when I was in NY, but I will talk to my GC guy about getting others. I like the Paragon splashes better than the Hybrids. Zildjian and Sabian both sell decent cymbal packs. Sabian and Meinl have some of the more interesting new cymbals coming out these days, but you will be hard pressed to find Meinls anywhere in the US because Sabian, Zildjian and Paiste put a lot of pressure on retailers to avoid Meinl, which is really too bad.

Edited January 7, 2009 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jan 7 2009, 10:34 AM)

Cast cymbals only. No sheet cymbals. I hate sheet cymbals.

I totally agree.

 

UFIPs also sound pretty good and they are spun cast which is very interesting.

 

Also there are several Turkish cymbal makers that make some pretty nice cymbals, but they are pricey as f***.

[kazzman]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 05:11 AM)

Don't you think the Pearls sound a little boxy? Even their pro kits sound boxy to me. I would have to agree about the PDP tom mounts, good design. Better than the Gretsch. But I prefer the tone of the Gretsches personally. It's all about the bearing edge.

Funny because I've always felt that the Gretsch kits sounded that way As I said earlier, it's all in the opinion.

 

Funny thing though... The best sounding kit I've ever heard mic'd up was a Pearl Reference series kit in a small club called Peabody's in Cleveland OH.

 

The thing that I really don't like about the Gretsch kits is that they don't seem to project too well and the bass drum is almost too "boomy" sounding for my taste. As for their snare drums; now that's a different story entirely. My "old faithful" is a 5x14 steel Gretsch snare drum. It's got such a great crisp and poppy sound to it that I haven't been able to find any snare drum to match yet.

[PhilsFriendMatt]

QUOTE (kazzman @ Jan 7 2009, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 05:11 AM) Don't you think the Pearls sound a little boxy? Even their pro kits sound boxy to me. I would have to agree about the PDP tom mounts, good design. Better than the Gretsch. But I prefer the tone of the Gretsches personally. It's all about the bearing edge. Funny because I've always felt that the Gretsch kits sounded that way As I said earlier, it's all in the opinion.   Funny thing though... The best sounding kit I've ever heard mic'd up was a Pearl Reference series kit in a small club called Peabody's in Cleveland OH.   The thing that I really don't like about the Gretsch kits is that they don't seem to project too well and the bass drum is almost too "boomy" sounding for my taste. As for their snare drums; now that's a different story entirely. My "old faithful" is a 5x14 steel Gretsch snare drum. It's got such a great crisp and poppy sound to it that I haven't been able to find any snare drum to match yet. Im not saying all pearls sound bad but I have heard the boxy ones. Jordinsons(slipknot) reference series sound great especially the bass. As far as the gretsches go I think the maple customs have an awesome warm tone to them. I love the tone out of taylor hawkins bass and while it is an american series not a renown, as cygnus stated earlier they are pretty similar in sound

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:15 PM)

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jan 7 2009, 10:34 AM) Cast cymbals only. No sheet cymbals. I hate sheet cymbals. I totally agree. you've got to at least be able to appreciate some of the high-end paiste stuff (2002, signature, etc)

[rushdownunder]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:15 PM)

UFIPs also sound pretty good and they are spun cast which is very interesting. Also there are several Turkish cymbal makers that make some pretty nice cymbals, but they are pricey as f***.

Bosphorus cymbals are a great option when you want the UFIP kind of sound at a more reasonable price.

 

I have a pair of their 13" Antique series hi-hats, which are bright and crisp and an absolute joy to play.

 

http://www.bosphoruscymbals.com/index.html

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jan 7 2009, 04:36 PM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:15 PM) QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jan 7 2009, 10:34 AM) Cast cymbals only. No sheet cymbals. I hate sheet cymbals. I totally agree. you've got to at least be able to appreciate some of the high-end paiste stuff (2002, signature, etc) Not really. They are brittle sounding to me. I have never really liked Paiste. It's too bad too because they make a lot of interesting percussion pieces. The 80's Meinls were so much like Paistes that I didn't like them either. But my friend has an endorsement deal with them and they make some very nice cast cymbals these days. Paistes sound and feel like they will break at any moment. A guy I went to school with had various Paiste cymbals and they all broke in very strange ways from standard playing. One Rude ride cracked severely in two places, from the outer edge to about halfway up to the cup on both sides. It was nasty and looked like crushed pennies along the breaks (too much copper in their formula). I have never seen cymbals break the way Paistes do. Some cymbals should never break, rides especially. I have had my Zildjian Ping since 1984 and it is still going strong. I use my Paragon as a backup of for a slightly different tone.   I had a Paiste 505 China that I got in a deal for other items and I rarely used it and I finally gave to a friend's son after it sat around for a few years. Give me a good Wuhan anyday (you may have to look for a good one these days) but at least you won't break the bank buying a Wuhan. I have a 16" Wuhan from 84 as well, plus a couple others for backup, but the old one still sounds great today.

Edited January 8, 2009 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Jan 7 2009, 05:06 PM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:15 PM) UFIPs also sound pretty good and they are spun cast which is very interesting. Also there are several Turkish cymbal makers that make some pretty nice cymbals, but they are pricey as f***. Bosphorus cymbals are a great option when you want the UFIP kind of sound at a more reasonable price.   I have a pair of their 13" Antique series hi-hats, which are bright and crisp and an absolute joy to play.   http://www.bosphoruscymbals.com/index.html You must have gotten a deal because Bosphorus, Istanbuls and Alchemy's are very expensive, when you can find them. A friend of mine gets his at the NAMM show for a show price, which is still not cheap. He loves Bosphorus and has 4 or 5 rides of theirs and a couple crashes. They are most like the old "real" K Zildjians, not like what Zildjian are calling K's now.

[PhilsFriendMatt]

Im also a fan of cast cymbals over sheet. When I get new ones I would love some master sound A customs. K master sounds are a little pricey for me. I still love the K ride though so that may be my choice for that

[rushdownunder]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 08:22 PM)

You must have gotten a deal because Bosphorus, Istanbuls and Alchemy's are very expensive, when you can find them.

I did get a discount on them, however even if I didn't they still would have been cheaper than the UFIP equivalents.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 09:17 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jan 7 2009, 04:36 PM) QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jan 7 2009, 04:15 PM) QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jan 7 2009, 10:34 AM) Cast cymbals only. No sheet cymbals. I hate sheet cymbals. I totally agree. you've got to at least be able to appreciate some of the high-end paiste stuff (2002, signature, etc) Not really. They are brittle sounding to me. I have never really liked Paiste. It's too bad too because they make a lot of interesting percussion pieces. The 80's Meinls were so much like Paistes that I didn't like them either. But my friend has an endorsement deal with them and they make some very nice cast cymbals these days. Paistes sound and feel like they will break at any moment. A guy I went to school with had various Paiste cymbals and they all broke in very strange ways from standard playing. One Rude ride cracked severely in two places, from the outer edge to about halfway up to the cup on both sides. It was nasty and looked like crushed pennies along the breaks (too much copper in their formula). I have never seen cymbals break the way Paistes do. Some cymbals should never break, rides especially. I have had my Zildjian Ping since 1984 and it is still going strong. I use my Paragon as a backup of for a slightly different tone.   I had a Paiste 505 China that I got in a deal for other items and I rarely used it and I finally gave to a friend's son after it sat around for a few years. Give me a good Wuhan anyday (you may have to look for a good one these days) but at least you won't break the bank buying a Wuhan. I have a 16" Wuhan from 84 as well, plus a couple others for backup, but the old one still sounds great today. I blew through 3 pair of Paiste Sound Edge hihats. Two, I didn't ask for a warranty (bought within one year each). The third was the 3000 series. I asked for a warranty replacement. The declined even having it sent to them. No, there were a couple of Paiste cymbals that sounded OK but they sounded also to me like they were very 'tinny'   The nuances & flavor of cast cymbals. Sounds so much better than sheet.