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odd time signatures


MMCXII

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I've been trying to learn how to identify time signatures in music and I remember hearing about a rush tune where Geddy/Alex play one beat and Neil plays another, then they meet and play the chorus together... anyone know what song this is? or is there more than one? I seem to remember the one I'm thinking of appears on ESL...
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The songs on 'Exit...Stage Left' that have odd time sections in them are...

  • YYZ
  • Jacobs Ladder
  • Freewill
  • Tom Sawyer
  • La Villa Strangiato

I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro. Can't remember if 'Xanadu' does or not though.

 

Not sure which tune you're referring to though. Let us know if you remember! Odd time signatures can be tricky to get a hold of, but once you do, they're a lot of fun.

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An odd time signature is one that has the first number that's odd. 3/4, 5/4, 7/8, 11/8, etc etc.

 

I can't rememeber one where Ged and Alex play independent of Neil, but it's probably happened.

 

I know PT does it sometimes... best example that comes to mind is Sentimental.

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A few example of odd time signatures in songs...

 

'Take Five' - Dave Brubeck Quartet (5/4)

'Keep It Greasey' - Frank Zappa (19/16)

'Solsbury Hill' - Peter Gabriel (7/4)

'Watermelon In Easter Hay' - Frank Zappa (9/4)

'Spoonman' - Soundgarden (7/4)

'Mission: Impossible Theme' - Lalo Schifrin (5/4)

'Outside Now' - Frank Zappa (9/4)

'Money' - Pink Floyd (7/4)

'Blue Rondo Ala Turk' - Dave Brubeck Quartet (9/8)

'Thirteen' - Frank Zappa (13/8 (5/8 + 4/4))

'Celestial Terrestrial Commuters' - The Mahavishnu Orchestra (19/16)

'Whipping Post' - Allman Brothers Band (11/8)

'Pound For A Brown' - Frank Zappa (7/8)

'Living In The Past' - Jethro Tull (5/4)

'five-five-FIVE' - Frank Zappa (5/8 & 5/4)

 

You'll notice Frank Zappas name appear more than once here, check him out for some of the greatest odd time / polyrhythmic music ever written.

 

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QUOTE (New World Kid @ Oct 9 2008, 01:11 AM)
An odd time signature is one that has the first number that's odd. 3/4, 5/4, 7/8, 11/8, etc etc.

I can't rememeber one where Ged and Alex play independent of Neil, but it's probably happened.

I know PT does it sometimes... best example that comes to mind is Sentimental.

Yes; but, please allow me to elaborate...

 

'Odd' Time Signatures might be better referred to as 'Compound Meters.'

 

Citing 7/4 as my favourite example, one might see it as either [3/4 + 4/4] or [3/4 + 4/4] -depending on how you'd like to count the beats.

 

Further: 9/4 could be counted in several ways using [2/4, 3/4, & 4/4].

 

Remember, these are not fractions; these are meters -numbers of beats per measure/note that gets the beat.

 

I'm suggesting simplifying compound meters by dividing them into simpler, more managable components -nothing more.

 

 

 

III.

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QUOTE (MMCXII @ Oct 9 2008, 01:54 AM)
I've been trying to learn how to identify time signatures in music and I remember hearing about a rush tune where Geddy/Alex play one beat and Neil plays another, then they meet and play the chorus together... anyone know what song this is? or is there more than one? I seem to remember the one I'm thinking of appears on ESL...

are you thinking of Jacobs ladder ?

 

Cause neil and alex play 5/4 and 6/4 over a 4/4 synth and vocal part at the start. Plus thats of ESL

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ok forgive me because I know nothing about identifying time signatures but all I remember is hearing about how Alex and Geddy were playing for example 3/8 and Neil was playing 8/3. then every 24 notes, they'd play the chorus together since 8x3=24.... something like that any way... does this make sense or am I on drugs?

 

I even seem to remember it as a quote from Neil, maybe from one of his books and I thought the song was beneath,between and behind.

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QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Oct 9 2008, 04:00 AM)
I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro.

The Trees also has a 5/4 section. Its before the guitar solo.

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Superconductor has a bit where Geddy and Alex are playing the riff in 7/4 (I think) and Neil's is cruising along in 4/4 and they all catch up at the bridge.

Probably not what you're thinking of but cool none the less.

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pretty much everything from zappa . 1022.gif
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if you want some reall crazy time signatures check out

 

 

 

mahavishnu orchestra - the inner mounting flame

birds of fire

the lost trident sessions

 

killer stuff

1022.gif

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I think that the main riff in Yes' "Siberian Khatru" is in 15/4 time.
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QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ Oct 9 2008, 03:54 PM)
I think that the main riff in Yes' "Siberian Khatru" is in 15/4 time.

Thats in 15/4?!? Nice. I have to listen to that and try to count it now.

 

Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase?

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QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Oct 9 2008, 03:00 AM)
I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro. Can't remember if 'Xanadu' does or not though.

3/4 doesn't count as an odd time signature... but it's kinda interesting you mention The Trees without mentioning the 5/4 in the song.

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QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM)
Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase?

You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake.

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QUOTE (Pagon @ Oct 9 2008, 06:49 PM)
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/toddsuc...tearsofjoy.html

if you can count this tune you know your stuff. the guy is a great drummer. he is the drummer for styx. you might think styx? well this dude is freaking amazing and then some. he just did the modern drummer festival with gavin harrison about a month ago.

todd rules, i saw him years ago with styx

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old.gif

QUOTE (Finbar @ Oct 9 2008, 04:14 PM)
QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM)
Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase?

You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake.

applaudit.gif Somebody 'Gets It!'

 

With '...essentially the same thing for notation's sake...' being the phrase. yes.gif

 

It depends on how you want to write it -which is easier; which makes the most sense to the most people; which most closely adheres to 'convention.'

 

There're standards in most everything -musical notation being among the oldest and loosest.

 

Notation is Italian, you know -by convention. I prefer it to tabulature.

 

 

III.

 

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QUOTE (Maestro @ Oct 9 2008, 07:15 PM)
QUOTE (Finbar @ Oct 9 2008, 04:14 PM)
QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM)
Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase?

You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake.

applaudit.gif Somebody 'Gets It!'

 

With '...essentially the same thing for notation's sake...' being the phrase. yes.gif

 

It depends on how you want to write it -which is easier; which makes the most sense to the most people.

 

 

III.

Couldn't agree more...

 

Limelight for example...I've seen notation in 7/4 bars, and in 3/4 bar then 4/4 bar.

 

Personally, I like to break it down as far as possible.

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