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#41 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 22 2008, 12:07 PM)
Put the following boxers in order, and tell me why you rate them as such.
The great Italian bleeders trio !
Vinny Pazienza, Arturo Gatti, Ray Mancini
Am I forgetting someone ?

Yes well I remember Vinnie Pazienza when he was still a lightweight and had that big rivalry with Greg Haugan. If someone had told me at that time that he'd be allowed in the same ring with Roy Jones I'd have told him that murder isn't allowed in boxing! Somehow though after a car accident Vinnie rebuilt himself and became this sturdy little powerhouse guy who started again at 154 but even then no one in their right mind would have matched him Terrible Terry Norris (junior middleweight king of the day). Still, gradually Vinnie built himself a new reputation as a skilled boxer-brawler who would weigh as high as 168 and with wins over the likes of washed up veteran champs like Lloyd Honeyghan, Hector Camacho and the great Roberto Duran. Still I was surprised when they did put him in with Jones jnr. Jones won easily in 6 not getting hit by a single punch in one round which has never happened before or since. Vinnie did well to last 6 with the then "superman" Jones, but was finished off with virtuoso leaping lead uppercuts with alternate hands, amazing stuff. Jones did shake his head a few times during the fight as if to say, what the HELL are you doing in here with me?

All in all I like Vinnie and you have to admire a guy who went from 135 to compete reasonably at 168 after a horrendous car accident too.

Gatti? What can you say about him? An excellent entertainer on a certain level. I loved his fights with Irish Mickey Ward and Ivan Robinson among others. When he stepped in with the best though he always came up short, Oscar De La Hoya, Mayweather and even Baldomir and Angel Manfredi beat him up. I like the guy though for sure, a great warrior.

Ray Boom Boom Mancini was a good little fighter, who unfortunately suffered the fate of killing one of his opponents. I always think this affects a fighter if it happens to him. I'm still angry of course as the guy was a duck, Duk Koo Kim! Ray was good though and he was a true bleeder I think he had about 70 stitches after one fight with Livingstone Bramble. He was robbed in the fight against "Not so Macho" Camacho I reckon.

Another Italian American bleeder is former middleweight champ Vito Antuofermo, who beat Emile Griffith and got a draw with Marvin Hagler in 1979, although Marvin was robbed. He then lost the title to Alan Minter who then got crushed by Hagler who then ruled the division for 7 years with an iron fist, literally...

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#42 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE (Gompers @ Apr 22 2008, 12:37 PM)
I'm trying to ship a computer to my brother in California. It's a standard ATX case. He doesn't need the monitor. I'm thinking I should use a 36"x36"x24" thick cardboard box with bubblewrap, not popcorn, to cushion the PC.

Do you think his is the best way to box it up?






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I think those popcorn things are the way to go but with a bigger box...

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#43 Tony R

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 20 2008, 09:06 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Apr 20 2008, 10:34 AM)
What is the vaseline for?  Is that so the blows slide off the face?  To protect the skin from the leather? 


Did i just answer my own question?  Sorry.  laugh.gif 

Okay... here's another.  What is on those Q-tips they put in the boxer's cuts that make the boxer wince in pain so much?  Is it superglue.  I heard that once, but i would think that would be illegal.

Yes you're correct about the vaseline, it also forms a temporary protective layer over scar tissue, which is why you see guys laying it on a fighters brow even when he's not cut. Ref's generally wipe it off if they notice.

The Q-tips are usually used to soak up blood from a cut inside the nose, it's got to hurt so I think that wakes them up. They may have something like alcohol on there to clear their head but to be honest I'm not completely sure on that one Necro.

It's adrenaline they put on the q-tips isnt it?

#44 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:40 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 20 2008, 09:06 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Apr 20 2008, 10:34 AM)
What is the vaseline for?  Is that so the blows slide off the face?  To protect the skin from the leather? 


Did i just answer my own question?  Sorry.  laugh.gif 

Okay... here's another.  What is on those Q-tips they put in the boxer's cuts that make the boxer wince in pain so much?  Is it superglue.  I heard that once, but i would think that would be illegal.

Yes you're correct about the vaseline, it also forms a temporary protective layer over scar tissue, which is why you see guys laying it on a fighters brow even when he's not cut. Ref's generally wipe it off if they notice.

The Q-tips are usually used to soak up blood from a cut inside the nose, it's got to hurt so I think that wakes them up. They may have something like alcohol on there to clear their head but to be honest I'm not completely sure on that one Necro.

It's adrenaline they put on the q-tips isnt it?

That's right, I forgot about that, they may use something else now too, but I've not heard anyone mention much about this recently.

#45 Alsgalpal

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:54 PM

Shouldn't this be called as Treeduck a wanking question?  laugh.gif

#46 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE (Alsgalpal @ Apr 22 2008, 01:54 PM)
Shouldn't this be called as Treeduck a wanking question?  laugh.gif

No you can PM me for a webcam show later...

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#47 Tony R

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 03:22 PM

As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion?


#48 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 03:49 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 03:22 PM)
As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion?

Well I saw him at the Olympics and he's a great talent, winning a silver medal at just 17, Oscar De La Hoya was 19 when he struck gold. I think there's a question mark over his chin but even the aforementioned Oscar was floored by a nobody early in his career and his chin has never let him down against the best punchers of his era - Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley, Hopkins only stopped him with a body shot, so it's hard to tell. I remember Mike McCallum got hit with a good shot by sharpshooting but average power puncher ex-welter champ Don Curry in their fight in 1987 and his knees buckled so far his arse almost brushed the canvas and even though he got the spectacular KO three rounds later in the 5th I was under the impression for years after that he was chinny, but he proved me wrong fight after fight, taking shots from everyone from James Toney to Roy Jones. So it's sometimes hard to gauge a fighter's chin in my experience.

What I do think is that he's trying to rush, there's no way he'll beat Naz's record for youngest world champ unless he beats Nate Campbell in his next fight. I'm surprised Warren hasn't been able to talk him out of this, since he's the ultimate over-protector.

Anyway Amir is like 17-0 and it's clear he needs about 4 or 5 more fights before he's ready, perhaps three this year and two more early next so by this time next year he should be ready. And he might as well do it this way, no one's gonna care if he's 21 or 22 if and when he's champ so that would be my advice. if they really wanted to be sure he could have 10 more fights and no one would complain.

He should fight someone like Julio Diaz, Jesus Chavez but to be honest Warren didn't even want to put him in with Jon Thaxton who's over the hill and now that he got beat they have the excuse not to bother with him. They should fight Romanov, but I think Warren is looking to team up with old nemesis Bob Arum to put Amir on the David Diaz-Manny Pacquiao bill in June, therefore introducing him to the Amricans before matching Khan against the winner, which Bob and Warren hope is the Pac Man. Arum and Freddie Roach (Pac's trainer) want to fight Hatton, De La Hoya or Mayweather, so who knows, there's allsorts of rumours flying around at 135, like Juan Diaz against Casamayor and kasditis v Jesus Chavez. Really Amir doesn't fit in with this lot yet, he needs  to go through a few more decent tough guy types and veterans.

I think he should at least win a belt or two also he's big enough to move up and that's one advantage he has over most of these guys, he's a wide-shouldered 5'10 and most 135 pounders are a chunky 5'6 or 5'7, plus he's faster than all of them. His punching power seems ok but it's hard to judge really. Remember also he's only 21, most fighters are still wearing a vest at 21 so he can still develop a great deal. We'll soon see though.

#49 Tick

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 06:01 PM

Fictional fights...
pick the winner. (all fighters at there best)

Hagler vs. Roy Jones jr.

Sugar ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather jr.

Mike Tyson vs. George Forman

Roberto Duran vs. Marco antonio Barrera

#50 treeduck

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 22 2008, 06:01 PM)
Fictional fights...
pick the winner. (all fighters at there best)

Hagler vs. Roy Jones jr.

Sugar ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather jr.

Mike Tyson vs. George Forman

Roberto Duran vs. Marco antonio Barrera

Hagler vs Jones - At middleweight Hagler would have the best chance but I think what we'd get is Leonard-Hagler all over again, Roy was as fast if not faster than Ray at 160 and he's bigger and in those days hit harder. As strong and as tough and as ruthless as Hagler was Jones was strong enough to go in against and a heavyweight and beat him easily, even if it was only John Ruiz. It doesn't really matter what weight they fought at really the result would be the same. Jones wouldn't be able to hurt Hagler but like Sugar Ray he'd outsmart him and outspeed him. A close and maybe disputed UD12 for Roy Jones jnr.

Leonard-Mayweather - This would have to take place at 147 or 154 (mayweather has gone from 130-154, leonard went from 147-175). This is a difficult one, you have the fantastic speedy combination punching and dazzling footwork with decent power from Ray against the slippery defensive precision punching of Floyd. Ray has a more proven chin, absorbing the bombs of Duran, Hagler, Hearns, but Mayweather's chin would probably stand up to the shots Ray would land, Oscar couldn't hurt him seriously nor Judah, still there's still a slight element of doubt about Mayweather's chin simply because he's so hard to hit, so he hasn't really had it tested to the max even now. Anyway what I'm getting at is this will be distance fight here. Personally I think their skills would create something of a stalemate, what would win it would be Ray's greater warrior spirit and proven toughness. Ray Leonard W12 Floyd Mayweather, again maybe a desputed split decision.

IRON Mike Tyson v Big George

I think it depends which version of George you think is the best, I mean he was very good as an oldie, his chin seemed improved for instance and he jabbed a lot better, but for this purpose we'll pit the 1973 version of Foreman vs the 1988 version of Tyson. So the size advantage is with George he was about 15 pounds heavier and about 5 inches taller, but this never seemed to bother a peak Tyson really, especially if the other guy was being aggressive, he only had trouble with big guys when they turned human octopus like Bonehugger Smith in March 1987. The Big George of old would have attacked Tyson and it would have been the fight of the century. Sheer brute force against vicious speed, power and accuracy in one package. It might be a case of who lands first, both guys had a decent beard. Tyson was more fluid less crude than George who clubbed his victims into the canvas wheras Mike put amazing combinations together creating highlight reel knockouts. His speed and accuracy coupled with his very good head movement ala Joe frazier would probably mean that Tyson would land his punches first and lots of them and get hit less. Frazier was crushed by George but Tyson was more powerful and faster and shorter yet a  bigger man overall. One thing about Mike he had a way of using his short stature against his opponets who had trouble hitting such a low target.

It's hard to decide but I go for Tyson in a brutal all out war...

Mike Tyson KO 6 Big George.

NB: This doesn't mean I rate Tyson above George in my rankings, because those rankings are based on each fighters whole career and also, as the cliche goes, styles make fights.

Oh this is an easy one Tick, very easy. As much as I like Barrera, the Baby Faced Assassin, he would have no chance against Duran. Duran was one of the best lightweights in history reigning for 7 years and KOing most of his oppoents, he then jumped right up to 147 and beat Leonard, beat up and ruined the much bigger Davey Moore at 154 and gave Hagler hell at 160 and even whupped the dangerous 6'1" Iran barkley as an old man. Barrera has never even fought at light weight, he's a 122,126,130 pounder, that's super bantamweight, feather weight and super featherweight.  Still it might be fun for a round or two, but even if the fight was at 135 it would be a blow-out though.

Roberto Duran KO2 Marco antonio Barrera.

Good questions Tick!

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#51 Tony R

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 22 2008, 08:49 PM)
QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 03:22 PM)
As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion?

Well I saw him at the Olympics and he's a great talent, winning a silver medal at just 17, Oscar De La Hoya was 19 when he struck gold. I think there's a question mark over his chin but even the aforementioned Oscar was floored by a nobody early in his career and his chin has never let him down against the best punchers of his era - Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley, Hopkins only stopped him with a body shot, so it's hard to tell. I remember Mike McCallum got hit with a good shot by sharpshooting but average power puncher ex-welter champ Don Curry in their fight in 1987 and his knees buckled so far his arse almost brushed the canvas and even though he got the spectacular KO three rounds later in the 5th I was under the impression for years after that he was chinny, but he proved me wrong fight after fight, taking shots from everyone from James Toney to Roy Jones. So it's sometimes hard to gauge a fighter's chin in my experience.

What I do think is that he's trying to rush, there's no way he'll beat Naz's record for youngest world champ unless he beats Nate Campbell in his next fight. I'm surprised Warren hasn't been able to talk him out of this, since he's the ultimate over-protector.

Anyway Amir is like 17-0 and it's clear he needs about 4 or 5 more fights before he's ready, perhaps three this year and two more early next so by this time next year he should be ready. And he might as well do it this way, no one's gonna care if he's 21 or 22 if and when he's champ so that would be my advice. if they really wanted to be sure he could have 10 more fights and no one would complain.

He should fight someone like Julio Diaz, Jesus Chavez but to be honest Warren didn't even want to put him in with Jon Thaxton who's over the hill and now that he got beat they have the excuse not to bother with him. They should fight Romanov, but I think Warren is looking to team up with old nemesis Bob Arum to put Amir on the David Diaz-Manny Pacquiao bill in June, therefore introducing him to the Amricans before matching Khan against the winner, which Bob and Warren hope is the Pac Man. Arum and Freddie Roach (Pac's trainer) want to fight Hatton, De La Hoya or Mayweather, so who knows, there's allsorts of rumours flying around at 135, like Juan Diaz against Casamayor and kasditis v Jesus Chavez. Really Amir doesn't fit in with this lot yet, he needs  to go through a few more decent tough guy types and veterans.

I think he should at least win a belt or two also he's big enough to move up and that's one advantage he has over most of these guys, he's a wide-shouldered 5'10 and most 135 pounders are a chunky 5'6 or 5'7, plus he's faster than all of them. His punching power seems ok but it's hard to judge really. Remember also he's only 21, most fighters are still wearing a vest at 21 so he can still develop a great deal. We'll soon see though.

Interesting answer thanks.I do worry about his chin but as you say others have shown weaknesses early in their career but not shown them in the big fights.
We'll see. My gut feeling is that he will come up short but will be World Champ of one of the many divisions.

#52 Tony R

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 01:08 PM

Interesting Heavyweight match-ups: (15 rounds)

Marciano v Frazier
L Lewis v Holmes
M Spinks v Holyfield
Liston v Tyson
Dempsey v Foreman

3 dynamite fights:

Marciano V Frazier
Liston v Tyson
Dempsey v Foreman

Of these three I fancy only the Marciano-Frazier fight would go the distance and that would only be if cuts didnt stop Marciano. I'd fancy Frazier to nick it on pts despite receiving a battering in the later rounds.

Liston-Tyson wow! Two fighters where the fear factor was high in their armoury against their opponent. Liston is underrated IMO and didnt lose many fights (was it 3, including the two to Ali?) and Tyson was awesome when he had Cus D'Amato by his side. I think Tyson would find Liston a difficult opponent and as styles make fights I'd fancy Liston by KO in the 13th or 14th round.

Dempsey-Foreman would be one-sided but a cracker. Dempsey would be over-matched because of his size but would rattle the big man until falling in the 4th or 5th.

2 boxing matches:

Lewis v Holmes.
Both under-rated but Holmes the most under-rated. Holmes lived in the shadow of Ali and as has been stated here already was disliked for the shellacking he gave Ali. Make no mistake Holmes was the "real" Real Deal and could box and punch. His jab was probably the best-ever in the heavyweight division and he was robbed by the judges against Spinks after "insulting" Rocky Marciano. Lewis had it all except a good chin. He was knocked out by bums twice and who can forget his "lights out" moment against Frank Bruno. Lewis was a very good but maybe not a true great.
Holmes would win. Holmes at his prime would probably beat all but a handful of the other greats, Ali, Louis among them. Yes, he would knock out Lennox in the later rounds.

Whaddya think?

Edited by Tony R, 23 April 2008 - 01:09 PM.


#53 Tony R

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE
pick the winner. (all fighters at there best)

Hagler vs. Roy Jones jr.

Sugar ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather jr.

Mike Tyson vs. George Forman

Roberto Duran vs. Marco antonio Barrera


Hagler to beat Jones.
Tyson to beat Foreman
Duran to murder Barrera.

Hagler v Jones is the only difficult one and I dont believe Jones has ever fought anyone near Hagler's calibre at middleweight. Jones did win at heavy but come on he beat a bum!

I believe that there was a time between 1985 and 1987 were THAT Mike Tyson could have beaten anyone before or since. Foreman was a BIG puncher but I'd fancy Tyson to KO him in the 6th. George would attack, not hold or dance and this would suit Iron Mike.

Duran V Barrera. Ha!! Duran at his best v anyone at Lightweight no contest. Duran was the man and always will be.



#54 treeduck

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 22 2008, 08:49 PM)
QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 03:22 PM)
As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion?

Well I saw him at the Olympics and he's a great talent, winning a silver medal at just 17, Oscar De La Hoya was 19 when he struck gold. I think there's a question mark over his chin but even the aforementioned Oscar was floored by a nobody early in his career and his chin has never let him down against the best punchers of his era - Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley, Hopkins only stopped him with a body shot, so it's hard to tell. I remember Mike McCallum got hit with a good shot by sharpshooting but average power puncher ex-welter champ Don Curry in their fight in 1987 and his knees buckled so far his arse almost brushed the canvas and even though he got the spectacular KO three rounds later in the 5th I was under the impression for years after that he was chinny, but he proved me wrong fight after fight, taking shots from everyone from James Toney to Roy Jones. So it's sometimes hard to gauge a fighter's chin in my experience.

What I do think is that he's trying to rush, there's no way he'll beat Naz's record for youngest world champ unless he beats Nate Campbell in his next fight. I'm surprised Warren hasn't been able to talk him out of this, since he's the ultimate over-protector.

Anyway Amir is like 17-0 and it's clear he needs about 4 or 5 more fights before he's ready, perhaps three this year and two more early next so by this time next year he should be ready. And he might as well do it this way, no one's gonna care if he's 21 or 22 if and when he's champ so that would be my advice. if they really wanted to be sure he could have 10 more fights and no one would complain.

He should fight someone like Julio Diaz, Jesus Chavez but to be honest Warren didn't even want to put him in with Jon Thaxton who's over the hill and now that he got beat they have the excuse not to bother with him. They should fight Romanov, but I think Warren is looking to team up with old nemesis Bob Arum to put Amir on the David Diaz-Manny Pacquiao bill in June, therefore introducing him to the Amricans before matching Khan against the winner, which Bob and Warren hope is the Pac Man. Arum and Freddie Roach (Pac's trainer) want to fight Hatton, De La Hoya or Mayweather, so who knows, there's allsorts of rumours flying around at 135, like Juan Diaz against Casamayor and kasditis v Jesus Chavez. Really Amir doesn't fit in with this lot yet, he needs  to go through a few more decent tough guy types and veterans.

I think he should at least win a belt or two also he's big enough to move up and that's one advantage he has over most of these guys, he's a wide-shouldered 5'10 and most 135 pounders are a chunky 5'6 or 5'7, plus he's faster than all of them. His punching power seems ok but it's hard to judge really. Remember also he's only 21, most fighters are still wearing a vest at 21 so he can still develop a great deal. We'll soon see though.

Interesting answer thanks.I do worry about his chin but as you say others have shown weaknesses early in their career but not shown them in the big fights.
We'll see. My gut feeling is that he will come up short but will be World Champ of one of the many divisions.

Interestingly here's the opinon of one of his rivals, though he doesn't say too much...

Juan Diaz: "Amir Khan Will Be a Threat"  

By Mark Vester

Former WBA/IBF/WBO lighteweight champion Juan Diaz tells Setanta Sports that lightweight prospect Amir Khan of Bolton will become a serious threat at 135-pounds.

"He's a great fighter, he has a lot of power, he's real hungry and I know what that feels like," Diaz said. "I fought for the championship of the world when I was 20-years-old. I remember how hungry I was then. Nobody was going to deny me that night. So I know how he feels right now. He's going to be a big threat in the lightweight division in the near future."

"He's going to be threat to myself and a lot of lightweights. I am looking forward to recapturing the three titles I lost and the title I didn't [manage] to get. He's one of those guys who will be a threat to myself and other lightweights trying to stop me getting those titles."

A fight between Diaz and Khan is a long time away. Diaz is slated to face Joel Casamayor on September 13 in Houston, Texas. Should he get by Casamayor, he would like to face Manny Pacquiao, Michael Katsidis and then a stage a rematch with the fighter who took his three titles, Nate Campbell.

"Before the Nate Campbell fight I said the two guys I really wanted to fight were Manny Pacquiao and the other was [Michael] Katsidis," Diaz added. "I think those two guys with my style and their style it would create the fight of the year and surpass many of the great fights we've seen through the years."



#55 treeduck

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 01:18 PM)
I dont believe Jones has ever fought anyone near Hagler's calibre at middleweight. Jones did win at heavy but come on he beat a bum!


Well Jones did beat Bernard Hopkins easily at 160 and he trounced James Toney at 168, both those guys are comparable with Hagler. I don't like Ruiz either but he was good enough to beat Holyfield, Rachman and Golota...

#56 treeduck

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 01:08 PM)
Interesting Heavyweight match-ups: (15 rounds)

Marciano v Frazier
L Lewis v Holmes
M Spinks v Holyfield
Liston v Tyson
Dempsey v Foreman

3 dynamite fights:

Marciano V Frazier
Liston v Tyson
Dempsey v Foreman

Of these three I fancy only the Marciano-Frazier fight would go the distance and that would only be if cuts didnt stop Marciano. I'd fancy Frazier to nick it on pts despite receiving a battering in the later rounds.

Liston-Tyson wow! Two fighters where the fear factor was high in their armoury against their opponent. Liston is underrated IMO and didnt lose many fights (was it 3, including the two to Ali?) and Tyson was awesome when he had Cus D'Amato by his side. I think Tyson would find Liston a difficult opponent and as styles make fights I'd fancy Liston by KO in the 13th or 14th round.

Dempsey-Foreman would be one-sided but a cracker. Dempsey would be over-matched because of his size but would rattle the big man until falling in the 4th or 5th.

2 boxing matches:

Lewis v Holmes.
Both under-rated but Holmes the most under-rated. Holmes lived in the shadow of Ali and as has been stated here already was disliked for the shellacking he gave Ali. Make no mistake Holmes was the "real" Real Deal and could box and punch. His jab was probably the best-ever in the heavyweight division and he was robbed by the judges against Spinks after "insulting" Rocky Marciano. Lewis had it all except a good chin. He was knocked out by bums twice and who can forget his "lights out" moment against Frank Bruno. Lewis was a very good but maybe not a true great.
Holmes would win. Holmes at his prime would probably beat all but a handful of the other greats, Ali, Louis among them. Yes, he would knock out Lennox in the later rounds.

Whaddya think?

Ok well very quickly I'd go with

Frazier over Rocky TKO10 (on cuts)

Holmes over Lewis W15 (his used his jab much more, Lewis gassed it)

Holyfield over Spinks W15 (spinks goes into his shell after tasting Holyfields combinations)

Tyson KO7 Liston (Tyson too fast and accurate)

Foreman KO7 Dempsey (Big George too big and powerful)







#57 Tony R

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 02:44 PM

Much like Spinks when he fought Tyson, I bottled it.

Holyfield to beat Spinks in a very cagey fight, but only on points.

#58 mazyyz

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 10:23 PM

What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders.

#59 treeduck

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM)
What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders.

You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.

One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.

The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.

I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...

Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...

(edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go)

Edited by treeduck, 23 April 2008 - 11:48 PM.


#60 the invisible man

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 07:53 AM

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 23 2008, 11:45 PM)
QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM)
What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders.

You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.

One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.

The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.

I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...

Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...

(edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go)

The heavyweight division may be dominated by Soviets these days, but lets face it they all suck compared to any of the great heavyweights of the past. yes.gif
Vitali and Vladimir Klitchco would not beat any of the great heavyweights that have boxed over the last 50 years, not one !

Edited by the invisible man, 24 April 2008 - 07:54 AM.





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