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RUSH'S FEEDBACK ALBUM


RUSHRAUEN

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IVE BEEN PLAYING DRUMS FOR 23 YEARS AND I HAVE BEEN PLEASE WITH NEILS DRUM SOUND UP UNTIL VAPOR TRAILS WHICH WAS THE WORST RECORDED ALBUM IN HISTORY. WAS THERE SOUND GUY DEAF? THEN I GOT FEEDBACK, FOR NEIL HAVING PROBABLY THE ABSOLUTE TOP OF THE LINE DRUM SET, I THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE SOUNDED BETTER PLAYING A BUNCH OF TUPPER WARE BOWLS. I CANT BELIEVE HE IS ACTUALLY HAPPY WITH THE DRUM SOUND ON THIS ALBUM. EVERY DRUM SOUNDS THE SAME AND LIKE MUD. THERE IS NO TONE TO ANY THING HE IS HITTING EXCEPT FOR THE CYMBALS. IF RUSH AND IN PARTICULAR NEIL ARE GOING TO RELEASE ALBUMS THAT SOUND LIKE THIS I WOULD PREFER THEY CALL IT QUITS AND LET US ENJOY THE DECENT STUFF THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE.
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I agree the mix is not great in VapotTrails, but I completely disagree about Feedback. You are talking about songs recorded 30+ years ago here and I think they were going for that sound.

 

IMO Neil is better now than he was 20 years ago as a drummer.

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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 25 2005, 12:23 PM)
IVE BEEN PLAYING DRUMS FOR 23 YEARS AND I HAVE BEEN PLEASE WITH NEILS DRUM SOUND UP UNTIL VAPOR TRAILS WHICH WAS THE WORST RECORDED ALBUM IN HISTORY.    WAS THERE SOUND GUY DEAF?  THEN I GOT FEEDBACK,  FOR NEIL HAVING PROBABLY THE ABSOLUTE TOP OF THE LINE DRUM SET, I THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE SOUNDED BETTER PLAYING A BUNCH OF TUPPER WARE BOWLS.    I CANT BELIEVE HE IS ACTUALLY HAPPY WITH THE DRUM SOUND ON THIS ALBUM.  EVERY DRUM SOUNDS THE SAME AND LIKE MUD.  THERE IS NO TONE TO ANY THING HE IS HITTING EXCEPT FOR THE CYMBALS.  IF RUSH AND IN PARTICULAR NEIL ARE GOING TO RELEASE ALBUMS THAT SOUND LIKE THIS I WOULD PREFER THEY CALL IT QUITS AND LET US ENJOY THE DECENT STUFF THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE.

Why is your post all in CAPS? It's a lot nicer to read stuff which is properly formatted.

 

I think we can trust at this point that every member of Rush is achieving precisely the sound they want. They are at a point now where the are essentially limited by nothing. Not technology, not money, not skill, nothing. I have to agree with Mr. RushRevisited, they got the sound they were going for. They were paying tribute to the original recordings of those songs.

 

Rush and everyone involved with the production of thier material are better now than they were 20 years ago. new_thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

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QUOTE (RushRevisited @ Jan 25 2005, 01:21 PM)
I agree the mix is not great in VapotTrails, but I completely disagree about Feedback. You are talking about songs recorded 30+ years ago here and I think they were going for that sound.

IMO Neil is better now than he was 20 years ago as a drummer.

I agree with everything you said.

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QUOTE (RushRevisited @ Jan 25 2005, 01:21 PM)
I agree the mix is not great in VapotTrails, but I completely disagree about Feedback. You are talking about songs recorded 30+ years ago here and I think they were going for that sound.

IMO Neil is better now than he was 20 years ago as a drummer.

goodpost.gif Great posting RR! yes.gif

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Nice first post. Way to introduce yourself by telling us all how bad Rush is now (in all CAPS none-the-less).

 

I respect your opinion and would somewhat agree that Vapor Trails sounds muddy and was recorded way too loud and mixed horribly. But I completely disagree on Feedback. I think Feedback sounds fantastic. Those songs are all 30-35 years old and drums were not as much a part of song arrangements back then as they are now. So I think Neil does a fine job on Feedback, he has a nice sound that definately does not get in the way of the songs.

 

2.gif

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QUOTE (Earthshine @ Jan 25 2005, 05:05 PM)
Nice first post. Way to introduce yourself by telling us all how bad Rush is now (in all CAPS none-the-less).

I respect your opinion and would somewhat agree that Vapor Trails sounds muddy and was recorded way too loud and mixed horribly. But I completely disagree on Feedback. I think Feedback sounds fantastic. Those songs are all 30-35 years old and drums were not as much a part of song arrangements back then as they are now. So I think Neil does a fine job on Feedback, he has a nice sound that definately does not get in the way of the songs.

2.gif

Well said Earthshine and RR. I totally agree. goodpost.gif

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Agreed with RR also...Neil is much better now than 20 years ago. He's learned a lot more and his playing style has changed tremendously...And as Feedback goes...SUPERB!!
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QUOTE (yyzyy @ Jan 25 2005, 07:13 PM)
Agreed with RR also...Neil is much better now than 20 years ago. He's learned a lot more and his playing style has changed tremendously...And as Feedback goes...SUPERB!!

Well said. Watching A Work In Progress really changed my view on Neil. He seems to know so much more about drums than he used to, and his style has changed for the better. He is a much better all around player now, although it's not like he sucked in the past, don't get me wrong there. Seems like Neil just gets better with time. trink39.gif

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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 25 2005, 10:23 AM)
IVE BEEN PLAYING DRUMS FOR 23 YEARS AND I HAVE BEEN PLEASE WITH NEILS DRUM SOUND UP UNTIL VAPOR TRAILS WHICH WAS THE WORST RECORDED ALBUM IN HISTORY. WAS THERE SOUND GUY DEAF? THEN I GOT FEEDBACK, FOR NEIL HAVING PROBABLY THE ABSOLUTE TOP OF THE LINE DRUM SET, I THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE SOUNDED BETTER PLAYING A BUNCH OF TUPPER WARE BOWLS. I CANT BELIEVE HE IS ACTUALLY HAPPY WITH THE DRUM SOUND ON THIS ALBUM. EVERY DRUM SOUNDS THE SAME AND LIKE MUD. THERE IS NO TONE TO ANY THING HE IS HITTING EXCEPT FOR THE CYMBALS. IF RUSH AND IN PARTICULAR NEIL ARE GOING TO RELEASE ALBUMS THAT SOUND LIKE THIS I WOULD PREFER THEY CALL IT QUITS AND LET US ENJOY THE DECENT STUFF THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE.

time for new speakers maybe? confused13.gif

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FIRST OF ALL I LOVE RUSH THEY ARE GREAT AND NEIL WALKS THE PLANET AS FAR AS DRUMMERS ARE CONSIDERED. THAT IS WHY I FIND HIS DRUM SOUND ON FEEDBACK HORRIBLE. I KNOW DRUMS AND HE MOST DEFINATELY HAS THE TOP OF THE LINE DRUMS THAT MONEY CAN BUY AND THEY SHOULD SOUND LIKE DRUMS AND EVERY DRUM DISTINGUISHABLE FROM THE NEXT. NOT ALL THE SAME TUPPER WARE SOUNDING GARBAGE. I DONT THINK HE WAS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO DO THIS .....WHY? THINK ABOUT NEIL AND HOW PICKY HE IS, HE HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING HOW CRAPPY DRUMS SOUNDED BACK THEN SO WHY WOULD HE TRY TO RECREATE THAT SOUND NOW REGARDLESS IF THIS IS A COVER ALBUM OF SONGS FROM THAT TIME. AS FOR BASHING RUSH, HARDLY THEY ARE GREAT BUT THEY ARE LOSING THERE TOUCH, BETWEEN THE HORRIBLE SOUND OF VAPORTRAILS AND THE CHEESY WAY OVER DONE LAYERING OF VOCALS FROM PRESTO ON I THINK GEDDY HAS TOO MUCH CONTROL. QUOTE OUT OF FEEDBACK......NEIL COMMENTING ON NOT TOO MANY BACKING VOCALS FOR THE FEEDBACK ALBUM. SO OBVIOUSLY HE DOESNT CARE FOR THEM EITHER. I SYMPHATHIZE WITH NEIL WITH WHAT HE HAS BEEN THROUGH BUT TO ME VAPOR TRAILS WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A SOUNDTRACK FOR HIS BOOK GHOST RIDER. GREAT BOOK. FEEDBACK WAS GREAT IN THE SENSE THAT IT SOUNDED LIKE OLD RUSH. VERY LITTLE IF ANY BACKING VOCALES AND NO KEYBOARDS JUST THREE GUYS JAMMING. AS FOR NEILS STYLE NOW, I LIKED HIM BETTER WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO OUT DO EVERYONE, WHICH HE DID MANY TIMES OVER. BUT NOW THAT HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF MANY TIMES OVER IT SEEMS AS IF HE DOESNT FEEL LIKE DOING ANY MORE THAN HE HAS TO. I THINK HIS PLAYING IS VERY BORING TO LISTEN TO NOW ( HIS PLAYING ON ANY NEW MATERIAL) LISTENING AND WATCHING HIM CRANK OUT THE OLD STUFF IS STILL GREAT BUT THE NEW STUFF HE COMES UP WITH FOR ANY NEW MATERIAL...VAPORTRAILS ETC. IS PLAIN BORING. HE DOESNT SOUND ANY DIFFERENT THEN ANY OF THE OTHER WANNABE DRUMMERS DISGRACING OUR RADIO AIRWAVES IN CHEESY NO TALENT HERE TODAY GONE LATER TODAY BANDS LIKE CREED ETC. AGAIN , LOVE RUSH BUT THE AGE IS STARTING TO SHOW AND THE MUSIC IS GETTING LAME AND BORING AND VERY PREACHY. AS FOR CAPITAL LETTERS......I THINK I READ TWO PEOPLE CRYING ABOUT THIS......PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS BEING TYPED ON THE INTERNET ARE BASICALLY SAYING THEY SPEND WAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THE COMPUTER AND SHOULD GET A LIFE OR A HOBBY.
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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 25 2005, 12:23 PM)
I THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE SOUNDED BETTER PLAYING A BUNCH OF TUPPER WARE BOWLS.

Tupperware bowls. rofl3.gif

 

Hey welcome to the board. trink39.gif Personally, I have to agree with you to a certain extent. I thought the overall sound of Feedback was good, and it's great to listen to. But I do agree that Neil's drums sound rather flat and lack the dynamics that they had in previous records. However.... I'll take it if it means 5 more albums. trink38.gif trink38.gif

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Before this goes anywhere further, two points I will make:

 

#1. To RushRauen: You have the right to type in CAPS, no problem. Just keep in mind some may not read it simply because it is an eyesore. No big deal, you feel comfortable typing in caps, so be it. No problem.

 

#2. I respectfully disagree with you in that you said:

 

"THE AGE IS STARTING TO SHOW AND THE MUSIC IS GETTING LAME AND BORING AND VERY PREACHY"

 

I believe (just my opinion) they have grown massively in the 30 years of their careers, and I think that the "stage" which they are in is yet another growth period. They have grown as musicians and I see absolutely no drop in talent whatsoever.

 

#3. You have every right to express your opinion here, but the one question that pops into my mind when I see you type "PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS BEING TYPED ON THE INTERNET ARE BASICALLY SAYING THEY SPEND WAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THE", why are you here, spending so much time in a Rush forum, typing that out, expressing how you think basically that they suck now? I mean you have every right to express that here, but expect some resistance from some members laugh.gif

 

 

Peace. trink39.gif

 

By the way, I merged this thread with the one you started again trink39.gif

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to me an eyesore would be straining to see small letters.....hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

i did not say rush sucked but they are definately losing it. becoming to sophisticated with there sound. the over layering the massive over production and the HORRIBLE BACKING VOCALS. why doesnt geddy just have a choir sing the songs with him....example the chorus for one little victory ....

one little victory. ahhhhhhhhhahhhhhhhhhhhh one little victory .ahhhhhh ......ahhhhhhhhhhhh......STUPID. think about that on something like tom sawyer.......mean mean pride....ahhhhhhhhaahhhhhhhhhhhahaaa..though his mind is not for rent.ahhhhhhhhahhhhhhhhhhhhhh etc etc.

 

i rest my case.

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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 26 2005, 12:01 AM)
to me an eyesore would be straining to see small letters.....hmmmmmmmmmm.

i did not say rush sucked but they are definately losing it. becoming to sophisticated with there sound. the over layering the massive over production and the HORRIBLE BACKING VOCALS. why doesnt geddy just have a choir sing the songs with him....example the chorus for one little victory ....
one little victory. ahhhhhhhhhahhhhhhhhhhhh one little victory .ahhhhhh ......ahhhhhhhhhhhh......STUPID. think about that on something like tom sawyer.......mean mean pride....ahhhhhhhhaahhhhhhhhhhhahaaa..though his mind is not for rent.ahhhhhhhhahhhhhhhhhhhhhh etc etc.

i rest my case.

That is actually a valid point. Someone might be able to give some opinions on that. I do think there are certain things vocally that Geddy cannot do anymore. That is a nature thing with age, and we do have to accept that they are not 32 anymore, but 52. Other than that, I don't see much loss of quality in Rush.

 

Personally, Vapor Trails is not my favorite album, in fact it is probably my least favorite album. There is actually an interesting thread here from a while back that talks about the mixing in depth and what went wrong on it.

 

 

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i actually read all about that........my question is still this...why the hell would they release this and now i hear a remixing is in the works. so they release the shit version and we all buy it of course....and cant take it back. and now when they remix it and clean it up we will all go buy it again making them basically double the money for everyone buying it twice. if they are going to clean it up then to get a new one all anyone should have to do is bring in there old copy of vaportrails as proof of purchase to be replaced by the remixed one without having to buy it again. if this happens i as should everyone else should consider themselves ripped off.
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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 25 2005, 11:36 PM)
FIRST OF ALL I LOVE RUSH THEY ARE GREAT AND NEIL WALKS THE PLANET AS FAR AS DRUMMERS ARE CONSIDERED.  THAT IS WHY I FIND HIS DRUM SOUND ON FEEDBACK HORRIBLE.    I KNOW DRUMS AND HE MOST DEFINATELY HAS THE TOP OF THE LINE DRUMS THAT MONEY CAN BUY AND THEY SHOULD SOUND LIKE DRUMS AND EVERY DRUM DISTINGUISHABLE FROM THE NEXT.    NOT ALL THE SAME TUPPER WARE SOUNDING GARBAGE.    I DONT THINK HE WAS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO DO THIS .....WHY?  THINK ABOUT NEIL AND HOW PICKY HE IS,  HE HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING HOW CRAPPY DRUMS SOUNDED BACK THEN SO WHY WOULD HE TRY TO RECREATE THAT SOUND NOW REGARDLESS IF THIS IS A COVER ALBUM OF SONGS FROM THAT TIME.  AS FOR BASHING RUSH, HARDLY THEY ARE GREAT BUT THEY ARE LOSING THERE TOUCH, BETWEEN THE HORRIBLE SOUND OF VAPORTRAILS AND THE CHEESY WAY OVER DONE LAYERING OF  VOCALS FROM PRESTO ON I THINK GEDDY HAS TOO MUCH CONTROL.  QUOTE OUT OF FEEDBACK......NEIL COMMENTING ON NOT TOO MANY BACKING VOCALS FOR THE FEEDBACK ALBUM.  SO OBVIOUSLY HE DOESNT CARE FOR THEM EITHER.    I SYMPHATHIZE WITH NEIL WITH WHAT HE HAS BEEN THROUGH BUT TO ME VAPOR TRAILS WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A SOUNDTRACK FOR HIS BOOK GHOST RIDER.  GREAT BOOK.    FEEDBACK WAS GREAT IN THE SENSE THAT IT SOUNDED LIKE OLD RUSH.  VERY LITTLE IF ANY BACKING VOCALES AND NO KEYBOARDS JUST THREE GUYS JAMMING.  AS FOR NEILS STYLE NOW, I LIKED HIM BETTER WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO OUT DO EVERYONE, WHICH HE DID MANY TIMES OVER.  BUT NOW THAT HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF MANY TIMES OVER IT SEEMS AS IF HE DOESNT FEEL LIKE DOING ANY MORE THAN HE HAS TO.    I THINK HIS PLAYING IS VERY BORING TO LISTEN TO NOW ( HIS PLAYING ON ANY NEW MATERIAL)  LISTENING AND WATCHING HIM CRANK OUT THE OLD STUFF IS STILL GREAT BUT THE NEW STUFF HE COMES UP WITH FOR ANY NEW MATERIAL...VAPORTRAILS ETC. IS PLAIN BORING.  HE DOESNT SOUND ANY DIFFERENT THEN ANY OF THE OTHER WANNABE DRUMMERS DISGRACING OUR RADIO AIRWAVES IN CHEESY NO TALENT HERE TODAY GONE LATER TODAY BANDS LIKE CREED ETC.    AGAIN , LOVE RUSH BUT THE AGE IS STARTING TO SHOW AND THE MUSIC IS GETTING LAME AND BORING AND VERY PREACHY.      AS FOR CAPITAL LETTERS......I THINK I READ TWO PEOPLE CRYING ABOUT THIS......PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS  BEING TYPED ON THE INTERNET ARE BASICALLY SAYING THEY SPEND WAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THE COMPUTER AND SHOULD GET A LIFE OR A HOBBY.

Ok I don't agree with much of what you say here. I think Vapor Trails is horrible in it's mastering. AND IT'S THE MASTERING NOT THE MIX (Thank you Launch and Cygnus), which means it can be saved by a decent remastering. And it should be saved. I think VT is one of the best CD's they've ever recorded in their 30 years. I love the vocal layering, I love Neil's drumming style and how it's progressed over the years. Who wants to live in the past? It's more subtle than flashy... but certainly just as good and in many ways, more intricate. And Alex got robbed by this horrible mastering. You just can't hear what he's doing, and he's done sooooooo much. For Alex's sake more than anything.... REMASTER VAPOR TRAILS.

 

Anyway, regarding Feedback - I think they all did a very straightforward, non fancy approach to the music. No need for flashy fills, over layering, etc. It's very laid back, organic, and has a feel to it that goes down like good scotch. It's the furthest thing from boring, to me. That CD played in my backyard all summer long, and my wife and I never tired of it.

 

I guess you can look back to their older stuff as their prime. That's cool. I for one, don't want one release after another of the same approach to making records. It they tried to make Moving Pictures over and over again. There would be no more Rush. They are here today because they always change their approach. The last thing I'll ever believe is that they're losing it. But to each his own.

 

By the way RUSHRAUEN... you just sound pissed. You feelin' ok? Sheesh.

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Another valid point, but I don't find it bad enough to require a refund, just my opinion. I imagine others feel how you feel though. The music is still there, it is not like the CDs are unplayable (c'mon, don't even say it biggrin.gif ) or it is all static or something. That would, of course, require refund.

 

Also, one very important thing to remember on this album is that it is much heavier IMO. Much more distortion - agreed, a lot on bad mixing, but also some I think intentional. It is simply the art of this album. I would bet the next album will be different yet again - you and I may like it and we may hate it. Won't stop me from going to see them play, or buying the album, even if I end up not liking it. I will be happy to have some more original Rush to hold onto for later when they decide that they just don't want to do this anymore.

 

You have to see around this board and elsewhere, Vapor Trails got a lot of younger people into Rush. I don't know why, but I see it over and over, these 16-20 year olds that first heard Vapor Trails and got into Rush via that album, an album that you and I, possibly older, do not appeal to as much. But again, to me that shows Rush is growing (maybe I am not! biggrin.gif )...

 

trink39.gif

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For your Tom Sawyer point: Many of the songs' actual music is composed by Geddy and Alex, so of course they're going to think of some creative stuff. As for the chorus, it works for songs that deliberately have it in, and others it doesn't, simply because it was never there in the first place.

 

Not only that, but you really can't decide if they are 'losing it' just on one album. No two albums are the same, they each have 'morphed' from the earlier album in some way. A great example of this is Moving Pictures and Signals. Signals has that hard rock sound that Moving Pictures has, but Signals has the synthesizers playing a larger role, and Grace Under Pressure after that having an even more larger role for the synthesizers.

 

For Vapor Trails, I agree that the actual sounds of the songs, the way they were recorded, was below average. Rush produced one of their loudest albums, and more volume usually means loss of sound quality. That is why I'm anxiously awaiting the remastered version of Vapor Trails.

 

QUOTE
THINK ABOUT NEIL AND HOW PICKY HE IS, HE HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING HOW CRAPPY DRUMS SOUNDED BACK THEN SO WHY WOULD HE TRY TO RECREATE THAT SOUND NOW REGARDLESS IF THIS IS A COVER ALBUM OF SONGS FROM THAT TIME.

 

Well, that is exactly it. It's from songs back then, so why not try to add some authenticity to the album and record the songs with drum sounds that were similar to the sounds way back when those songs were recorded? But, to another extent, Feedback certainly wasn't the best showcase of Neil's drums. They were somewhat flat, and plain. Hopefully during this recess he'll improve them, as he is always doing.

 

QUOTE
THINK I READ TWO PEOPLE CRYING ABOUT THIS......PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT CAPITAL LETTERS BEING TYPED ON THE INTERNET ARE BASICALLY SAYING THEY SPEND WAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THE COMPUTER AND SHOULD GET A LIFE OR A HOBBY.

 

Well, typing in all caps just to get a point out is no exception. I respect your right to type in all capital letters, but typing in all capital letters just to get your point out is, quite simply, just plain childish.

 

 

All in all, I respect your opinion, and welcome to the forum.

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QUOTE (RUSHRAUEN @ Jan 25 2005, 11:36 PM)
FIRST OF ALL I LOVE RUSH THEY ARE GREAT AND NEIL WALKS THE PLANET AS FAR AS DRUMMERS ARE CONSIDERED. THAT IS WHY I FIND HIS DRUM SOUND ON FEEDBACK HORRIBLE.

Do you really not have the intelligence required to operate a caps-lock key?

 

I agree with you to an extent about Feedback, however. Although I can't claim to have paid close attention to the drum sound, overall it's a dreadful record. I think they murdered those old songs frankly, the Rush versions are graceless, hamfisted, cheesy and shoddy. A great shame. More here.

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