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IF you weren't already a RUSH fan...


Necromancer

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Be honest now. I remember the first time I heard 2.gif and becoming an instant fan. It was Fly By Night. I didn't become a RABID fan until Hemispheres, but from the beginning I was hooked.

 

NOW... if the first 2.gif song I ever heard was something off of Snakes and Arrows, I can't honestly say that I'd be a fan. Can you?

 

Don't get me wrong... i LOVE this album. yes.gif BUT... i fear it's because I've been a 2.gif fan for nearly thirty years, so being that it's another album by my favorite band... of course I love it. But seriously... without any prior love of 2.gif I highly doubt that Snakes would have moved me much. Now Vapor Trails, on the other hand... THAT'S a great album regardless of how long you've been a fan. I think VT could MAKE Rush fans, but I doubt that Snakes could.

 

Are there any younger members out there that became 2.gif fans because of Snakes? And I mean SOLELY because of Snakes and Arrows. No prior liking of any of their past work.

 

After a year of listening to this album CONTINUOUSLY, I feel that I can honestly say that while it IS awesome, it wouldn't have HOOKED me, if I had not had any prior 2.gif love.

 

Think about this before just bashing me. Put yourself outside the 2.gif superfandom that we all share and honestly ask yourself if this is an album you would have bought if it was by some band you'd never heard of. I highly doubt that I would have. It just doesn't rock enough for my tastes.

 

Discuss.

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That's almost impossible to say... Let's say Planet Rock radio station played Far Cry and I had no clue who Rush were I think I'd be interested. I would likely write down the name of the track and the band and go on the internet to do a bit more invesitagation... But there's no way I'd have bought Snakes & Arrows I'd have likely gone for either one of the Retrospective albums or Moving Pictures. So although that would mean in a way Snakes would've been my introduction it's not exactly what you're looking for.

 

When S&A was first released I had Far Cry as my MySpace tune and a friend was browsing my page and must've been grabbed enough by the intro to give it a listen, he's into quite heavy stuff normally. Anyway he told me the next day at college he'd thought it was pretty cool and liked Geddy's voice but when I offered to make him a compilation CD he said "No thanks" so obviously it didn't strike him as cool enough to something he'd wanna explore more.

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I totally hear where you are coming from Necro.

If I had heard the larger bowl when I was 9, I do not think I would be into Rush.

 

BUT....

Hearing the Larger Bowl at 36 years old, it might have spoken to me enough to take the chance on them.

BUT....

hearing Far Cry/TMMB/ Spindrift/ A&S, I would definitely have been very very interested !!

 

 

So, I guess it would have depended on fate and WHICH song I heard!

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I'm pretty sure S&A would have turned me on to Rush. I tend to take interest in music that showcases high production values, clever word play and outstanding musicianship. All of these criteria can be found on Snakes & Arrows.
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no, i would have said " THAT'S A GOOD BAND' but that's about it. to tell the truth [get mad all you want biggrin.gif ] i have not gone "NUT'S " about a 2.gif album in a long time. i still buy everything and go to the show's and buy the merch but i still keep waiting for something to kick my ass. sadly for me, that has not happened in a loooooog time.

my 2 cent's

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QUOTE (Analog Brian Kidd @ Mar 9 2008, 12:48 PM)
I can't say as it would have, no.
It's not a bad album per se, but it's not a very exciting album either.

And VT would have been even less likely to have made me a Rush fan.

Really? ohmy.gif

 

I mean... i'm not trying to turn this into VT vs SnA but VT is such a ROCKIN' album. It's far more true to 2.gif roots than SnA.

 

I just prefer it. I remember the first time I heard One Little Victory on the radio. I honestly didn't know it was 2.gif at first. Just that rockin' drum intro grabbed me. Once I knew it was 2.gif I loved it even more. That's why I could see that album grabbing new fans more than Snakes. Nothing on Snakes grabs me like stuff off of VT or CP or anything previous to it.

 

While I feel it's a brilliant album, it doesn't have a "rockin'" feel to it. In one of the interviews on the R30 dvd, they talk about how older albums took days in the studio compared to 14 months that VT took. Maybe they need to go back to that quicker style of writing and recording an album. Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work.

 

They've gotten to wrapped up in technology and perfectionism and that costs them in BALLS. I'm dying to hear an album by 2.gif with BALLS again. VT had them, but they were small balls. laugh.gif They need to grow back some big ol' ass kicking balls again. yes.gif

 

And for that to happen, I think ALEX needs to remember what a GUITAR GOD he really is and start ripping up the cd's again. yes.gif

 

1022.gif

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QUOTE
Now Vapor Trails, on the other hand... THAT'S a great album regardless of how long you've been a fan.

 

 

I feel just the opposite. I've been a serious hardcore fan for 25 years and S&A is my favorite. I'm still almost surprised myself but it's undeniable. Considering that fact, if S&A was my first exposure I probably would have gone back and bought the rest of the catalog and then said "wow, this is really great stuff but too bad it's not like S&A." On the other hand, I appreciate VT for what it is but there is no way it would have made much of an impression on me if I hadn't already been a fan. It's almost always going to be that way to a degree. The first Rush album I bought which got me into the band was GUP. I guarantee you that fans of old Rush (pre-Signals) would've asked the same question then. "Come on, would anybody actually really like GUP if they hadn't already been a fan?" I remember thinking after becoming so into GUP and shortly thereafter getting the rest of the albums that while the previous albums were cool they just didn't have that same vibe. I remember specifically thinking "why does Geddy sing so great now when he used to just scream?" GUP has now become my second favorite which I didn't think would ever happen.

 

 

Edit:

 

I can also tell you that one of my best friends who is just an all around music fanatic has always enjoyed Rush casually. When S&A came out last year I sent him some songs. He went out and bought the CD, then bought the MVI, and in the last year went out and bought the whole catalog since he only previously owned I think 2112 and Moving Pictures. Now he wants to go see them when they come to Austin.

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QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 9 2008, 05:05 PM)
Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work.

This says it all. I know it's all down to personal opinion but it totally blows my mind when people say Snakes & Arrows is their favourite Rush album. Sure it might feel that way when it first comes out because it's exciting to have new Rush music but when you stand back and have a look do you honestly think S&A (Good as it may be) is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres? ohmy.gif

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QUOTE (TheRocinanteKid @ Mar 9 2008, 01:09 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 9 2008, 05:05 PM)
Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work. 

This says it all. I know it's all down to personal opinion but it totally blows my mind when people say Snakes & Arrows is their favourite Rush album. Sure it might feel that way when it first comes out because it's exciting to have new Rush music but when you stand back and have a look do you honestly think S&A (Good as it may be) is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres? ohmy.gif

In my opinion, Rush will never top A Farewell to Kings through Signals. It's futile to compare any other Rush to that era!

 

That being said, Snakes & Arrows is certainly one of the best Rush albums since Signals...

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QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 10 2008, 02:05 AM)
QUOTE (Analog Brian Kidd @ Mar 9 2008, 12:48 PM)
I can't say as it would have, no.
It's not a bad album per se, but it's not a very exciting album either.

And VT would have been even less likely to have made me a Rush fan.

Really? ohmy.gif

 

I mean... i'm not trying to turn this into VT vs SnA but VT is such a ROCKIN' album. It's far more true to 2.gif roots than SnA.

 

I just prefer it. I remember the first time I heard One Little Victory on the radio. I honestly didn't know it was 2.gif at first. Just that rockin' drum intro grabbed me. Once I knew it was 2.gif I loved it even more. That's why I could see that album grabbing new fans more than Snakes. Nothing on Snakes grabs me like stuff off of VT or CP or anything previous to it.

 

While I feel it's a brilliant album, it doesn't have a "rockin'" feel to it. In one of the interviews on the R30 dvd, they talk about how older albums took days in the studio compared to 14 months that VT took. Maybe they need to go back to that quicker style of writing and recording an album. Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work.

 

They've gotten to wrapped up in technology and perfectionism and that costs them in BALLS. I'm dying to hear an album by 2.gif with BALLS again. VT had them, but they were small balls. laugh.gif They need to grow back some big ol' ass kicking balls again. yes.gif

 

And for that to happen, I think ALEX needs to remember what a GUITAR GOD he really is and start ripping up the cd's again. yes.gif

 

1022.gif

I feel the same way.

About the big balls vs. small balls...that might have to do with their age. Sure, they still love playing and making music but I don't think the desperation and hunger are there anymore as it was 30 years ago. Desperation and hunger might be a huge factor in testicle size.

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QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 9 2008, 05:11 PM)
QUOTE (TheRocinanteKid @ Mar 9 2008, 01:09 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 9 2008, 05:05 PM)
Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work. 

This says it all. I know it's all down to personal opinion but it totally blows my mind when people say Snakes & Arrows is their favourite Rush album. Sure it might feel that way when it first comes out because it's exciting to have new Rush music but when you stand back and have a look do you honestly think S&A (Good as it may be) is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres? ohmy.gif

In my opinion, Rush will never top A Farewell to Kings through Signals. It's futile to compare any other Rush to that era!

Caress Of Steel - Moving Pictures for me. wink.gif

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QUOTE (TheRocinanteKid @ Mar 9 2008, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 9 2008, 05:11 PM)
QUOTE (TheRocinanteKid @ Mar 9 2008, 01:09 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 9 2008, 05:05 PM)
Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work. 

This says it all. I know it's all down to personal opinion but it totally blows my mind when people say Snakes & Arrows is their favourite Rush album. Sure it might feel that way when it first comes out because it's exciting to have new Rush music but when you stand back and have a look do you honestly think S&A (Good as it may be) is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres? ohmy.gif

In my opinion, Rush will never top A Farewell to Kings through Signals. It's futile to compare any other Rush to that era!

Caress Of Steel - Moving Pictures for me. wink.gif

Fair enough! wink.gif

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QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Mar 9 2008, 01:07 PM)
QUOTE
Now Vapor Trails, on the other hand... THAT'S a great album regardless of how long you've been a fan.

 

 

I feel just the opposite. I've been a serious hardcore fan for 25 years and S&A is my favorite. I'm still almost surprised myself but it's undeniable. Considering that fact, if S&A was my first exposure I probably would have gone back and bought the rest of the catalog and then said "wow, this is really great stuff but too bad it's not like S&A." On the other hand, I appreciate VT for what it is but there is no way it would have made much of an impression on me if I hadn't already been a fan. It's almost always going to be that way to a degree. The first Rush album I bought which got me into the band was GUP. I guarantee you that fans of old Rush (pre-Signals) would've asked the same question then. "Come on, would anybody actually really like GUP if they hadn't already been a fan?" I remember thinking after becoming so into GUP and shortly thereafter getting the rest of the albums that while the previous albums were cool they just didn't have that same vibe. I remember specifically thinking "why does Geddy sing so great now when he used to just scream?" GUP has now become my second favorite which I didn't think would ever happen.

I see your point, but maybe where we butt heads on this is in our taste in other forms of rock.

 

Basically i'm a heavy rock/metal fan. What do you like most? Older 2.gif stuff borders on metal. VT even jammed out and was definitely heavy. Snakes is ADULT CONTEMPORARY. Similar to what VH did with Hagar.

 

It doesn't grab me the way older stuff does. Maybe because my earliest memories had me AMAZED at Alex's shredding. Since he doesn't play that way anymore, I find the new stuff lacking in the balls department. I miss it.

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Snakes & Arrows pretty much captured me on my first listen and it has grown on me considerably, so I can't imagine not liking it if it was my first time hearing Rush. If anything, I think it would make me want to hear more. But I really can't be objective...I already love Rush!
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QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 9 2008, 12:16 PM)
Basically i'm a heavy rock/metal fan. What do you like most? Older 2.gif stuff borders on metal. VT even jammed out and was definitely heavy. Snakes is ADULT CONTEMPORARY. Similar to what VH did with Hagar.

i agree 1000%. for me, FLY BY NIGHT to SIGNAL'S was the best work 2.gif has ever done

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QUOTE
This says it all. I know it's all down to personal opinion but it totally blows my mind when people say Snakes & Arrows is their favourite Rush album. Sure it might feel that way when it first comes out because it's exciting to have new Rush music but when you stand back and have a look do you honestly think S&A (Good as it may be) is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres?

 

QUOTE
In my opinion, Rush will never top A Farewell to Kings through Signals. It's futile to compare any other Rush to that era!

 

Well, the problem is that people can always be biased in the opposite direction too. People are attached to what they're familiar with and what they grew up with. It's totally expected that people will have a hard time being as attached to something new as something that they've spent decades with. I still cannot comprehend that people include Signals in the "Rush can do no wrong" period. Signals was utterly savaged by fans when it came out and it single-handedly alienated more Rush fans than any other album. Take all the negative stuff you read about S&A or VT and multiply it by ten, that's what it was like in school when that came out. The backlash was brutal.

 

The whole deal about just being excited about S&A because it's new just doesn't apply to me. I've been experiencing new Rush albums since GUP so I know what that's like. This is different, it's been almost a year and I listen to it as much as all the rest of the albums combined. I only listen to VT when I'm burnt out on other Rush music and want something different. They've managed to release my least favorite and my most favorite records back to back.

 

 

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QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Mar 9 2008, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE (Necromancer @ Mar 10 2008, 02:05 AM)
QUOTE (Analog Brian Kidd @ Mar 9 2008, 12:48 PM)
I can't say as it would have, no.
It's not a bad album per se, but it's not a very exciting album either.

And VT would have been even less likely to have made me a Rush fan.

Really? ohmy.gif

 

I mean... i'm not trying to turn this into VT vs SnA but VT is such a ROCKIN' album. It's far more true to 2.gif roots than SnA.

 

I just prefer it. I remember the first time I heard One Little Victory on the radio. I honestly didn't know it was 2.gif at first. Just that rockin' drum intro grabbed me. Once I knew it was 2.gif I loved it even more. That's why I could see that album grabbing new fans more than Snakes. Nothing on Snakes grabs me like stuff off of VT or CP or anything previous to it.

 

While I feel it's a brilliant album, it doesn't have a "rockin'" feel to it. In one of the interviews on the R30 dvd, they talk about how older albums took days in the studio compared to 14 months that VT took. Maybe they need to go back to that quicker style of writing and recording an album. Let's face it... as good as Snakes is... it's not as good as their early work.

 

They've gotten to wrapped up in technology and perfectionism and that costs them in BALLS. I'm dying to hear an album by 2.gif with BALLS again. VT had them, but they were small balls. laugh.gif They need to grow back some big ol' ass kicking balls again. yes.gif

 

And for that to happen, I think ALEX needs to remember what a GUITAR GOD he really is and start ripping up the cd's again. yes.gif

 

1022.gif

I feel the same way.

About the big balls vs. small balls...that might have to do with their age. Sure, they still love playing and making music but I don't think the desperation and hunger are there anymore as it was 30 years ago. Desperation and hunger might be a huge factor in testicle size.

They have to see that though, wouldn't you think? Somewhere along the way you would think they'd hear their sterile sound and go... "WHOA... where'd our balls go???" confused13.gif

 

I've got my ipod playing the entire catalog on shuffle right now and while I LOVE every song playing, it's so clear where they lost their balls.

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QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Mar 9 2008, 01:24 PM)
I still cannot comprehend that people include Signals in the "Rush can do no wrong" period. Signals was utterly savaged by fans when it came out and it single-handedly alienated more Rush fans than any other album.

I think the reaction to Grace Under Pressure was more savaging than Signals. If not mostly for the new haircuts! laugh.gif

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QUOTE (ReRushed @ Mar 9 2008, 01:29 PM)
QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Mar 9 2008, 01:24 PM)
I still cannot comprehend that people include Signals in the "Rush can do no wrong" period. Signals was utterly savaged by fans when it came out and it single-handedly alienated more Rush fans than any other album.

I think the reaction to Grace Under Pressure was more savaging than Signals. If not mostly for the new haircuts! laugh.gif

This is true though. When Signals came out, it totally made the casual fan disappear. People who had been totally into 2.gif because of Moving Pictures only... didn't even give it a chance. I think it was a mistake to release New World Man as the first single. As much as I loved it... the casual fan stepped back from the album and didn't give it another chance. Grace continued this trend.

 

They had a chance to become the STELLAR band they deserve to be with Signals. I think it was a conscious effort to NOT grab that chance. Their choice.

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i am one of the people that liked SIGNAL'S from the start. the only song i NEVER cared for was NEW WORLD MAN. i love everything else on that album.
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QUOTE
I see your point, but maybe where we butt heads on this is in our taste in other forms of rock.

Basically i'm a heavy rock/metal fan. What do you like most? Older  stuff borders on metal. VT even jammed out and was definitely heavy. Snakes is ADULT CONTEMPORARY. Similar to what VH did with Hagar.

It doesn't grab me the way older stuff does. Maybe because my earliest memories had me AMAZED at Alex's shredding. Since he doesn't play that way anymore, I find the new stuff lacking in the balls department. I miss it.

 

QUOTE
i agree 1000%. for me, FLY BY NIGHT to SIGNAL'S was the best work  has ever done

 

 

This is exactly what I expected to hear from you and metaldad, I don't mean that in a negative way, just that it explains why we don't see eye to eye. Hard rock is my favorite kind of music but ultimately I just love music and I can seriously get the same energetic thrill listening to classical or big band or something like Brian Setzer depending on my mood. S&A is much heavier than the majority of Rush's catalog but it is a little slower and I think that's what makes people say it's too soft. Having said that, almost all of Moving Pictures is at least as slow except for YYZ. S&A sounds like Metallica compared to the majority of everything from Signals through RTB. So, I guess you guys think that Second Nature, The Pass, Middletown Dreams, Losing It, Bravado, and pretty much everything on those albums sucks too. I can't imagine your reaction when Hold Your Fire was new. I understand the comparison with VH, they went from just heavy riffing more into writing when Sammy came on board. Trust me, I hear what you guys like in the older stuff and I love it too but the band was flat out better at making music when Sammy joined. If music is nothing but a testosterone release for some people then that's fine but there's more to it for me and I absolutely have no lack of testosterone. You guys might be shocked to find my cd case absolutely filled with Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Dio, Metallica, and others. I relate to you guys but music is just not one-dimensional to me.

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QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Mar 9 2008, 12:48 PM)
. You guys might be shocked to find my cd case absolutely filled with Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Dio, Metallica, and others. I relate to you guys but music is just not one-dimensional to me.

trust me brother, i have ton's of jazz and big band as well. metal is what i love but not the only thing. i have been playing drum's for 29 year's so i listen to EVERYTHING. i give every album a fair listen to. i just don't get s& a . not my bag

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