Dread Pirate Robert Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trance Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) To me, it's about the relationship one has with the drink. If it becomes a situation where it hinders their daily life processes, perhaps to the point of an inability to function normally, then I might say they have a problem and are perhaps an alcoholic. On the other hand, there is a line that can be drawn I suppose, as surely there are those out there who drink what I would call excessive amounts, but are able to function within normal limits mentally and physically. I guess what I'm saying is that the definition of an alcoholic can't ever really be based on how much the person drinks, alone. Edited February 17, 2007 by Trance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Feb 16 2007, 11:56 PM)For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? Of course there is a difference. I grew up in an alcoholic home. Alcoholism is a disease that shouldn't be taken lightly. There is a very fine line between a casual drinker and an alcoholic. An alcoholic NEEDS the alcohol to get though a day. A mere drinker enjoys the alcohol after getting though a day! Alcoholics also find many ways to hide and cover up for their addition. They hurt, harm, steal and lie to those around them to get the next drink. Not every one that picks up a drink is an alcoholic or will become one. An alcoholic won't have the control over how much, when where etc. Just because some one may go out after work for a few and wakes up doesn't mean the have a problem. Now if that person wakes up and goes back to more and blows off work, school, family etc. They might have a problem. The lists of what an alcoholic vs. a casual drinker could go on and on and on.... Is there a reason you ask this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic.Feedback! Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I'm not sure what the line between someone who drinks and someone who's an alcoholic is, but I'll come home and my dad will be pretty hammered on a regular basis. I think it was for some class a few years back, but there was this thing on signs of an alcoholic; it was something like, casual drinking, secretive drinking and then bum on the street. I remember thinking, gee, that sucks, good thing I don't know any. Of course, this was back in the day I thought everyone's dad was weird at night. I d'no. I'm having a hard time putting words around it. It kinda sucks, but i got over it a while ago. He doesn't blow off his work, he just drinks during it. He doesn't forget about his family, he just makes things difficult. I dont think there's any fine line for alcoholism, and that it's different for people. When we go on vacation or anything for a long period of time, he just starts drinking lots of coffee instead. He's never belligerent or anything, he's just... I d'no. Him. And I have no idea how anyone can drink straight, 80 proof vodka. Mm, tastes like rubbing alcohol. Uh... Sorry. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telegraphcreeklocal Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 17 2007, 07:28 AM) QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Feb 16 2007, 11:56 PM)For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? Of course there is a difference. I grew up in an alcoholic home. Alcoholism is a disease that shouldn't be taken lightly. There is a very fine line between a casual drinker and an alcoholic. An alcoholic NEEDS the alcohol to get though a day. A mere drinker enjoys the alcohol after getting though a day! Alcoholics also find many ways to hide and cover up for their addition. They hurt, harm, steal and lie to those around them to get the next drink. Not every one that picks up a drink is an alcoholic or will become one. An alcoholic won't have the control over how much, when where etc. Just because some one may go out after work for a few and wakes up doesn't mean the have a problem. Now if that person wakes up and goes back to more and blows off work, school, family etc. They might have a problem. The lists of what an alcoholic vs. a casual drinker could go on and on and on.... Is there a reason you ask this question? I disagree. There is no difference. Someone who likes to drink lots of alcohol is not a casual drinker, they are alcoholic. An alcoholic may not need alcohol to get through the day . They may be binge drinkers on the weekends and get seriously polluted every time. If the line is so fine than how do you define it one way or the other? Denial is part of alcoholism. You don't have to be on the street or a bum to be alcoholic. You can be quite successful, but one day it will catch up to you and then you'll find out how sick in the mind and spirit you really are. Let alone you're physical self i.e. Acites, Liver disease, kidney failure etc.. I would love to discuss this topic further with anyone and hear what they think. TCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) well since both my parents are/were alchoholics i have dealt with it my whole life.(who hasnt dealt with it in one form or another) my father died of sirousis of the liver in 88, its an awefull thing to watch, similar to watching someone die of cancer, which i have also experianced more then a couple times as well. my mom struggles to stay sober which she currently is.(thank you lord) i define alcoholism as someone who relies on alchohol on an everyday basis, if only to "take the edge off of life." i have had my share of times in my life where alchohol played a big part. am i an alchoholic ? i dont know how to answer the question, although i rarely drink these days, i guess the possibilty is always there that i could start drinking more. so i guess i would have to say yes in some capasity i am. i have tried in life to always recognize when im going over the line, and take a step back. i used to enjoy vodka which always led to trouble so now thats out of the picture as of my bbq where i over did it. i can say this, i enjoy the clarity of not drinking and its not something i miss doing on a regular basis. now when i enjoy of few drinks its a treat and not just the same old, same old. my advice to anyone who drinks everyday, take a good look in the mirror and recognize if your entering into dangerous territory. alchohol is something that will destroy and even steal your life from you. thanks for reading, tick. Edited February 18, 2007 by tick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 QUOTE (telegraphcreeklocal @ Feb 18 2007, 11:41 AM) QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 17 2007, 07:28 AM) QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Feb 16 2007, 11:56 PM)For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? Of course there is a difference. I grew up in an alcoholic home. Alcoholism is a disease that shouldn't be taken lightly. There is a very fine line between a casual drinker and an alcoholic. An alcoholic NEEDS the alcohol to get though a day. A mere drinker enjoys the alcohol after getting though a day! Alcoholics also find many ways to hide and cover up for their addition. They hurt, harm, steal and lie to those around them to get the next drink. Not every one that picks up a drink is an alcoholic or will become one. An alcoholic won't have the control over how much, when where etc. Just because some one may go out after work for a few and wakes up doesn't mean the have a problem. Now if that person wakes up and goes back to more and blows off work, school, family etc. They might have a problem. The lists of what an alcoholic vs. a casual drinker could go on and on and on.... Is there a reason you ask this question? I disagree. There is no difference. Someone who likes to drink lots of alcohol is not a casual drinker, they are alcoholic. An alcoholic may not need alcohol to get through the day . They may be binge drinkers on the weekends and get seriously polluted every time. If the line is so fine than how do you define it one way or the other? Denial is part of alcoholism. You don't have to be on the street or a bum to be alcoholic. You can be quite successful, but one day it will catch up to you and then you'll find out how sick in the mind and spirit you really are. Let alone you're physical self i.e. Acites, Liver disease, kidney failure etc.. I would love to discuss this topic further with anyone and hear what they think. TCL. Since my father was a functioning alcoholic, My Grandfather was a functioning alcohloic. Neither, thank god ever got to the point where it affected their health, but it did affect their relationships, family, work, finances, etc. Your right you don't need to be on the street to be an alcohlic, but you can also hit rock bottom in non-physcial ways even as a functioning alcoholic. It took me a lot of years in getting to know recovering, and non-recovering alcoholics to get past the fact that not everyone that picks up a drink is an alcoholic. I say there is a fine line because if you sit at an AA or alanon meeting everyones story is different, everyones rock bottom is different. One alcoholoic's disease is not that of anothers. I had friends that would weekend binge drink not touch a slip all week, and be back to it the next weekend, but then might not do it again for a month or two. Weekend binger, yeah i might say some of them may have had or have a problem. So I do not disagree with your point on that. To me if a binge drinker NEEDS to do this. They may also be harming themselves and others. Yes they may have a problem. Denial BIG part of it...Yes, but again it's that fine line. I can not define it one way or another the points I made were only those that I heard and learned from recovering alcoholics over the 23 years I have dealt with this issue in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic.Feedback! Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Funcitoning alcoholic. That's the term I was looking for. People say alcoholism is hereditary. That's not true, right? Does it just tend to run in families? (hey wait, that's the same thing... uh, you know what I mean...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 QUOTE (Atomic.Feedback! @ Feb 18 2007, 01:44 PM) Funcitoning alcoholic. That's the term I was looking for. People say alcoholism is hereditary. That's not true, right? Does it just tend to run in families? (hey wait, that's the same thing... uh, you know what I mean...) My dad actually went though some testing since his dad (my grandfather) had the same problem. he was told by a geneticist (??spelling) that there is a gene related to it. I know that neither my sister nor my self are big drinkers. I don't even think my sister ever drank come to think of it. I don't because I'm afraid to end up like my dad and I know I have an additive trait. I try and turn it to other avenues. Don't get me wrong I have gotten drunk and every now and then enjoy a drink but for the most part I don't feel the need for it like my dad did. My dad once told me his body craved it and he along with a nurtionist worked to detox his body in a healthy way. He also knows his behaviors didn't just go away either. But back to point...My family had 3 generations of alcoholics before mine that I know of...yeah I think genes may play a role...but I'm just not sure since my sister and I steer clear. That brings up another question could it be just a learned behavior? I think it's a little of both, but that is my thought...Any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Owlswing, seems like we have this in common. My father is an alcoholic, albeit he is recovering. My parents are now divorced because of his drinking. He used to sell life insurance and made pretty good money at doing it. He started hanging out with a few guys who were single, didn't have any responsibilities, and it influenced him. My father had a family and that didn't seem to matter to his so-called friends. Over time, he became less and less responsible and started becoming verbally abusive to my mother and me. My sister had gotten married so she wasn't there to experience a lot of the stuff I had to deal with. One night he grabbed my mother by her neck and pushed her up against the wall. I went into a rage and the next thing that happened was that his face met my fist and he went flying across the room. I could go on about this, but I still have a lot of resentment about it so I'll stop on that note. But I will say that he finally got some help and is now remarried and is doing better. About alcoholism though, I did a paper on it many moons ago and found that there are two kinds: an alcoholic and an alcohol abuser. The main difference is that an alcoholic is someone who is physically dependent on alcohol. I think an alcohol abuser is someone who just drinks too much. I remember Suzanne Somers described once how miserable she was growing up with an alcoholic father who was verbally and physically abusive. She pointed out a lot of things that children of alcoholics share. One of them is loss of self esteem and generally losing trust. I don't drink alcohol of any kind due to the fact my father is a (recovering) alcoholic and I don't want to put myself in a position of becoming one myself. I've been addicted to other things in life (not drugs) and know that becoming an alcoholic is too possible for me. Luckily, I never cared for the taste of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Feb 18 2007, 03:27 PM) Owlswing, seems like we have this in common. My father is an alcoholic, albeit he is recovering. My parents are now divorced because of his drinking. He used to sell life insurance and made pretty good money at doing it. He started hanging out with a few guys who were single, didn't have any responsibilities, and it influenced him. My father had a family and that didn't seem to matter to his so-called friends. Over time, he became less and less responsible and started becoming verbally abusive to my mother and me. My sister had gotten married so she wasn't there to experience a lot of the stuff I had to deal with. One night he grabbed my mother by her neck and pushed her up against the wall. I went into a rage and the next thing that happened was that his face met my fist and he went flying across the room. I could go on about this, but I still have a lot of resentment about it so I'll stop on that note. But I will say that he finally got some help and is now remarried and is doing better. About alcoholism though, I did a paper on it many moons ago and found that there are two kinds: an alcoholic and an alcohol abuser. The main difference is that an alcoholic is someone who is physically dependent on alcohol. I think an alcohol abuser is someone who just drinks too much. I remember Suzanne Somers described once how miserable she was growing up with an alcoholic father who was verbally and physically abusive. She pointed out a lot of things that children of alcoholics share. One of them is loss of self esteem and generally losing trust. I don't drink alcohol of any kind due to the fact my father is a (recovering) alcoholic and I don't want to put myself in a position of becoming one myself. I've been addicted to other things in life (not drugs) and know that becoming an alcoholic is too possible for me. Luckily, I never cared for the taste of it anyway. The resentment sucks doesn't it? It's been 7 years since I talked to my Dad. He went into recovery but that alcoholic behavior never went away. After years of dealing with it I couldn't anymore. I didn't want my kids to experience what I did. It is still the hardest choice I ever had to make. Now that my oldest is almost 11 she wants to meet him but I'm still a bit stand offish about it. Thank goodness she'll never be able to understand why, but she she asks a lot how I can love and distrust someone at the same time. I guess those in an alcoholics life walk a fine line too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladirushfan80 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Feb 16 2007, 11:56 PM) For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? well...this sure is a definite serious topic all right.... i personally have been effected by alcoholism in two different ways....but both similar in the sence that they both had the same end result.... alcoholism killed them with my mother? her drink of choice was beer... never anything harder than that my earliest memories of her being drunk were far and few between.... i just remember not liking her very much when she was drunk...and wished for the days to come when she would be "normal"... as i got older, those days seldom came.... she would fall, smash her face into the corner of the desk... the table, on the floor....and there would be blood every where... numerous were her wounds to her body due to her falling down drunk... she started a fire in the kitchen one time having left something in the oven too long... ultimately.... alcoholism was the cause of her demise..... i was 10 years old.... with my ex-husband and the father of my youngest two children? his drink of choice was vodka.... the cheaper, the better.... he would spend every evening with his numerous glass of diet coke & vodka... it wasn't until toward the end of our marriage that he started becoming a mean drunk... it was at that point, me and my girls got the f**k out... he ruined our life together with his alcoholism.... put is into some serious debt... lied....cheated.... all for the love of his vodka... years after our divorce, his lifestyle took quite a toll on his life... he lost numerous jobs... could no longer take part in his share of the responsibility for his children... had a breakdown.... went out of state to try and "dry out"... but ultimately.... his body lost the will to fight... cirrhosis of the liver began to overtake his world and his body... it killed his kidneys...and they shut down... it poisoned him to the point that he spent the better part of a month in the hospitals ICU so even see if his body could recouperate from the damage that had occured.... ultimately....alcoholism was the cause of his demise.... as far as a difference? i dunno... i like to drink alcohol on occassion... but it doesn't take over my life, or that of the lives of my family... there was a time in my life where i was quite the social alcoholic... but since having children of my own... all of that had changed... i think some of the previous posters in this thread have given sufficient definitions as to what the difference is... i'm just posting my own personal experience with two alcoholics in my world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I remember one very embarrassing time. I was out on our porch swing at our house listening to music (I remember it was "Chemistry"). A car pulled up into our yard. It was an older couple bringing my drunk father home. He'd gone to see them on business to sell them insurance. Now that's embarrassing. I also remember coming home to see my father lying on the floor and over a chair as if he fell over it. At first I thought he was dead, but he was just passed out. My mother hit the ceiling when she found this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Feb 18 2007, 08:11 PM) QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Feb 16 2007, 11:56 PM) For a change of pace in this forum, a really serious topic: what is "alcoholism"? Do you know, or have you known in the past, anybody personally you would describe as an "alcoholic"? If so, what about them makes you describe them as an "alcoholic"? What is the difference between being an "alcoholic" and somebody who likes to drink lots of alcohol? Is there a difference? well...this sure is a definite serious topic all right.... i personally have been effected by alcoholism in two different ways....but both similar in the sence that they both had the same end result.... alcoholism killed them with my mother? her drink of choice was beer... never anything harder than that my earliest memories of her being drunk were far and few between.... i just remember not liking her very much when she was drunk...and wished for the days to come when she would be "normal"... as i got older, those days seldom came.... she would fall, smash her face into the corner of the desk... the table, on the floor....and there would be blood every where... numerous were her wounds to her body due to her falling down drunk... she started a fire in the kitchen one time having left something in the oven too long... ultimately.... alcoholism was the cause of her demise..... i was 10 years old.... with my ex-husband and the father of my youngest two children? his drink of choice was vodka.... the cheaper, the better.... he would spend every evening with his numerous glass of diet coke & vodka... it wasn't until toward the end of our marriage that he started becoming a mean drunk... it was at that point, me and my girls got the f**k out... he ruined our life together with his alcoholism.... put is into some serious debt... lied....cheated.... all for the love of his vodka... years after our divorce, his lifestyle took quite a toll on his life... he lost numerous jobs... could no longer take part in his share of the responsibility for his children... had a breakdown.... went out of state to try and "dry out"... but ultimately.... his body lost the will to fight... cirrhosis of the liver began to overtake his world and his body... it killed his kidneys...and they shut down... it poisoned him to the point that he spent the better part of a month in the hospitals ICU so even see if his body could recouperate from the damage that had occured.... ultimately....alcoholism was the cause of his demise.... as far as a difference? i dunno... i like to drink alcohol on occassion... but it doesn't take over my life, or that of the lives of my family... there was a time in my life where i was quite the social alcoholic... but since having children of my own... all of that had changed... i think some of the previous posters in this thread have given sufficient definitions as to what the difference is... i'm just posting my own personal experience with two alcoholics in my world... Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladirushfan80 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 18 2007, 08:45 PM) Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" thanks honey... i took me a couple of times to actually come in here to share my experiences... come in... hit reply... hit the back button... come in.. hit reply... hit the back button... **rinse and repeat** it's not the most fun 'club' to be in... but it's a comfort to know you are not alone... losing my mother wrecked me for a very long time... and just when you think you're over it...and have had the ability to move on... i lose someone else... and it all came flooding back to the surface and wrecked me again... i guess it was a good (?) thing that i had my experience for the sake of my girls... for i knew how to handle the situation and help them thru the whole ordeal.... Edited February 19, 2007 by ladirushfan80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Feb 19 2007, 08:35 AM)QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 18 2007, 08:45 PM) Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" thanks honey... i took me a couple of times to actually come in here to share my experiences... come in... hit reply... hit the back button... come in.. hit reply... hit the back button... **rinse and repeat** it's not the most fun 'club' to be in... but it's a comfort to know you are not alone... losing my mother wrecked me for a very long time... and just when you think you're over it...and have had the ability to move on... i lose someone else... and it all came flooding back to the surface and wrecked me again... i guess it was a good (?) thing that i had my experience for the sake of my girls... for i knew how to handle the situation and help them thru the whole ordeal.... the older and wiser you get, the more you understand how alchohol effects all of our lives in one form or another. losing my dad to sirousis left scars etched in my memorie. dealing with keeping my mom sober over the last few years has been difficult as well, hopital stays, near death experiances, gut wrenching moments. i can see we all share some similar heartaches. its good to know your not alone sometime. im just sorry you guys have had these experiances as well. http://www.greeting-cards-4u.com/platinum6/pictures/images/GraphicsPlus/Animated/Hugs.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I have to say that I really like the open discussion going on in here. It's very mature and it's reassuring to know, once again, there are others out there who have had to deal with some form of this at one time or another. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (tick @ Feb 19 2007, 08:12 AM)QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Feb 19 2007, 08:35 AM)QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 18 2007, 08:45 PM) Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" thanks honey... i took me a couple of times to actually come in here to share my experiences... come in... hit reply... hit the back button... come in.. hit reply... hit the back button... **rinse and repeat** it's not the most fun 'club' to be in... but it's a comfort to know you are not alone... losing my mother wrecked me for a very long time... and just when you think you're over it...and have had the ability to move on... i lose someone else... and it all came flooding back to the surface and wrecked me again... i guess it was a good (?) thing that i had my experience for the sake of my girls... for i knew how to handle the situation and help them thru the whole ordeal.... the older and wiser you get, the more you understand how alchohol effects all of our lives in one form or another. losing my dad to sirousis left scars etched in my memorie. dealing with keeping my mom sober over the last few years has been difficult as well, hopital stays, near death experiances, gut wrenching moments. i can see we all share some similar heartaches. its good to know your not alone sometime. im just sorry you guys have had these experiances as well. http://www.greeting-cards-4u.com/platinum6/pictures/images/GraphicsPlus/Animated/Hugs.gif Tick...I missed your first post here... It's a slient badge we wear . I agree those scars are etched memories...but from them we have become stronger and wiser. I recall those gut wrenching moments well...even now with my Dad sober for 6 years, If my sister brings him up I still get that panic feeling that something bad has happened. In what seems twisted, since I would never want anyone to have these experiences, I'm glad to know I'm not alone...and sliently we go on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES-335 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Feb 19 2007, 07:35 AM) QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 18 2007, 08:45 PM) Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" thanks honey... i guess it was a good (?) thing that i had my experience for the sake of my girls... for i knew how to handle the situation and help them thru the whole ordeal.... It was a great thing that you were there for your kids, Ladi. Your love and support for them is immeasurable. My biological father is an alcoholic. He is currently in a semi-vegetative state. LONG story short, he left us when I was 5 and started a roller coaster ride of ups and downs until he finally went too far the last time. He wasn't physical with us or Mom, but his negative impact on the family was huge. I didn't really measure his impact on me until I was in my 30s ... it was then that I realized that he was never there ... I am not a big Everclear fan, but the song Father of Mine hits the nail right on the head. BTW, my mom did a GREAT job raising my by herself ... Now, on the topic ... first, I do not believe it is a disease. Why? Because I believe a disease is an affliction that can't be cured by simply stopping a certain activity. Yes, one person my be more susceptible to being an alcoholic that the other, but they can still say no. It is all about choices and what is more important to them. I will not argue this point so if anyone replies, don't be offended if I do not acknowledge your post. As far as what defines an alcoholic? I am not really sure. There are always obvious examples ... i.e. those who go on extended binges, or can't stop once they start ... but what about the average? I know some folks who drink a lot but seem to be fine. They are doing a good job raising their kids, have good jobs, and are healthy. OTOH, I also know folks who drink seldomly, but when they do, they always end up in a fight (usually with their spouse) or making some stupid mistake. So, who knows exactly ... but one thing is for sure, if it does affect your life or the lives around you in a negative way, I would suggest to not drink ... or drink very little. As far as me, I am a social drinker and rarely get drunk. In fact, the last time I was truly drunk was new years 1996 and that night, I did something stupid and luckily, got away with it (nothing involving the law ) ... So, I decided to not let myself get that way again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Aubrey Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE (ES-335 @ Feb 19 2007, 09:53 AM) QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Feb 19 2007, 07:35 AM) QUOTE (owlswing @ Feb 18 2007, 08:45 PM) Hey Ladi Sorry to hear your a part of a club I wouldn't wish any one to be a part of "My life has been effected by an alcoholic" thanks honey... i guess it was a good (?) thing that i had my experience for the sake of my girls... for i knew how to handle the situation and help them thru the whole ordeal.... It was a great thing that you were there for your kids, Ladi. Your love and support for them is immeasurable. My biological father is an alcoholic. He is currently in a semi-vegetative state. LONG story short, he left us when I was 5 and started a roller coaster ride of ups and downs until he finally went too far the last time. He wasn't physical with us or Mom, but his negative impact on the family was huge. I didn't really measure his impact on me until I was in my 30s ... it was then that I realized that he was never there ... I am not a big Everclear fan, but the song Father of Mine hits the nail right on the head. BTW, my mom did a GREAT job raising my by herself ... Now, on the topic ... first, I do not believe it is a disease. Why? Because I believe a disease is an affliction that can't be cured by simply stopping a certain activity. Yes, one person my be more susceptible to being an alcoholic that the other, but they can still say no. It is all about choices and what is more important to them. I will not argue this point so if anyone replies, don't be offended if I do not acknowledge your post. As far as what defines an alcoholic? I am not really sure. There are always obvious examples ... i.e. those who go on extended binges, or can't stop once they start ... but what about the average? I know some folks who drink a lot but seem to be fine. They are doing a good job raising their kids, have good jobs, and are healthy. OTOH, I also know folks who drink seldomly, but when they do, they always end up in a fight (usually with their spouse) or making some stupid mistake. So, who knows exactly ... but one thing is for sure, if it does affect your life or the lives around you in a negative way, I would suggest to not drink ... or drink very little. As far as me, I am a social drinker and rarely get drunk. In fact, the last time I was truly drunk was new years 1996 and that night, I did something stupid and luckily, got away with it (nothing involving the law ) ... So, I decided to not let myself get that way again. I agree. I've always thought that alcoholism is more of a mental disorder than a disease. I know that scientific consensus states that there is a gene associated with alcoholism, but I have my doubts about that. Then again, I admit that I could be talking through my hat. I was an alcoholic for about four years. I had the 'wake up call' that finally turned me around. There were no withdrawal symptoms and I don't struggle with constant cravings. I simply stopped getting drunk all the time. I still drink, but never to excess. I usually have one drink/beer/glass of wine and stop. On rare occasions (maybe once every two years), I will have two but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midway Hawker Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I also agree that is it not a disease. It is caused by something we put into our bodies, which if we choose we can stop. It is definately addictive much like cigarettes or sugar.. But these things are not diseases, they are more a behavior disorder. Stop the behavior and the problem will go away. My father may or may not be an alcoholic, I'm not sure. All I know is that when he has been drinking he is a totally different person. He says and does things which he denies later and he can get extremely mean. I don't have a great relationship with him to begin with, so when he drinks it makes it that much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Banana Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Great thread on a very serious topic. It's always good to know you're not alone in this... I have some questions for the posters here, but first, my background: My parents both were alcoholics too. Mom was a classic case (passive-aggressive, hiding the drinks, lying to family, teaching me to lie to others, etc.) After years of counseling, meetings, rehab, you name it, she completely bottomed out 4 years ago and now resides in a nursing home at the age of 65 because she cannot take care of herself any longer. She's basically ruined the life the good Lawd gave her... Dad was the alcoholic who used it to get away from life, a weekend warrior, if you will. He worked hard all week, but come Friday night his home was at the local bar. He'd come home for dinner, and then go back out again. This went on from when I was a baby until he left my mom (I was an adult by then) and remarried someone else, who set him straight. Painful shoulder problems a year ago drove him to drinking a lot of cheap Chianti ("Pain pills don't work", he said) but since shoulder surgery he has stopped all that, and his second wife has made sure of it. I agree that alcoholism is a hereditary disease, and though I am not an alcoholic, I know I carry that gene in my blood. As a result I am reluctant to have kids of my own. If I ever passed down the gene that wrecked my mother's life, and nearly my father's too, I would never forgive myself. Obviously, this does not sit well with the missus. She wants kids, and thinks I am being incredibly selfish and using my parents as an excuse. As she puts it, "My parents don't belong in our marriage". I'd like kids too, really, but if the choice is having kids and risking that they may have addictive personalities, or not having them at all... well... So how many of you who post here are parents? Have you had this conversation with yourself and/or with your significant other? What did they think? Do you believe this is a gene that can be passed thru generations? What do you tell your kids about alcohol or alcoholics? Again, keep up the great posting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm no parent, but I wouldn't let this keep you from having children. My grandfather (mother's father) was sober all week and was hard working and responsible, but over the weekends he'd get hammered. My grandmother told me that he started this after his duties for World War II. Seems a lot of men started drinking after time spent in a war. Back then, alcoholism was a "private matter" and was never discussed openly like it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic.Feedback! Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 QUOTE Great thread on a very serious topic. It's always good to know you're not alone in this... I have some questions for the posters here, but first, my background: My parents both were alcoholics too. Mom was a classic case (passive-aggressive, hiding the drinks, lying to family, teaching me to lie to others, etc.) After years of counseling, meetings, rehab, you name it, she completely bottomed out 4 years ago and now resides in a nursing home at the age of 65 because she cannot take care of herself any longer. She's basically ruined the life the good Lawd gave her... Dad was the alcoholic who used it to get away from life, a weekend warrior, if you will. He worked hard all week, but come Friday night his home was at the local bar. He'd come home for dinner, and then go back out again. This went on from when I was a baby until he left my mom (I was an adult by then) and remarried someone else, who set him straight. Painful shoulder problems a year ago drove him to drinking a lot of cheap Chianti ("Pain pills don't work", he said) but since shoulder surgery he has stopped all that, and his second wife has made sure of it. I agree that alcoholism is a hereditary disease, and though I am not an alcoholic, I know I carry that gene in my blood. As a result I am reluctant to have kids of my own. If I ever passed down the gene that wrecked my mother's life, and nearly my father's too, I would never forgive myself. Obviously, this does not sit well with the missus. She wants kids, and thinks I am being incredibly selfish and using my parents as an excuse. As she puts it, "My parents don't belong in our marriage". I'd like kids too, really, but if the choice is having kids and risking that they may have addictive personalities, or not having them at all... well... So how many of you who post here are parents? Have you had this conversation with yourself and/or with your significant other? What did they think? Do you believe this is a gene that can be passed thru generations? What do you tell your kids about alcohol or alcoholics? Again, keep up the great posting... Well, regardless of alcoholism actually being hereditary, I refuse to become one, even though it means slightly less wild parties for me... Willpower, IMO, is the way to beat genetics. It'd be like saying that I'm fated to become an alcoholic, and that's something I refuse to believe. Hopefully any kids I may or may not have could take that lesson to heart. Don't let genetics of any kind stop you from having kids if you want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlswing Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 QUOTE (Milton Banana @ Feb 19 2007, 04:43 PM)Great thread on a very serious topic. It's always good to know you're not alone in this... I have some questions for the posters here, but first, my background: My parents both were alcoholics too. Mom was a classic case (passive-aggressive, hiding the drinks, lying to family, teaching me to lie to others, etc.) After years of counseling, meetings, rehab, you name it, she completely bottomed out 4 years ago and now resides in a nursing home at the age of 65 because she cannot take care of herself any longer. She's basically ruined the life the good Lawd gave her... Dad was the alcoholic who used it to get away from life, a weekend warrior, if you will. He worked hard all week, but come Friday night his home was at the local bar. He'd come home for dinner, and then go back out again. This went on from when I was a baby until he left my mom (I was an adult by then) and remarried someone else, who set him straight. Painful shoulder problems a year ago drove him to drinking a lot of cheap Chianti ("Pain pills don't work", he said) but since shoulder surgery he has stopped all that, and his second wife has made sure of it. I agree that alcoholism is a hereditary disease, and though I am not an alcoholic, I know I carry that gene in my blood. As a result I am reluctant to have kids of my own. If I ever passed down the gene that wrecked my mother's life, and nearly my father's too, I would never forgive myself. Obviously, this does not sit well with the missus. She wants kids, and thinks I am being incredibly selfish and using my parents as an excuse. As she puts it, "My parents don't belong in our marriage". I'd like kids too, really, but if the choice is having kids and risking that they may have addictive personalities, or not having them at all... well... So how many of you who post here are parents? Have you had this conversation with yourself and/or with your significant other? What did they think? Do you believe this is a gene that can be passed thru generations? What do you tell your kids about alcohol or alcoholics? Again, keep up the great posting... Hi - yeah even if alcoholism is hereditary disease it doesn't mean your kids will have the problem. I don't whole heartly agree that it is all the gene factor, some maybe but it's also choices. After, what I can trace back to 3 generations of alcoholics, my sister and I broke the cycle. I have 4 kids and talk straight with them, well the older 3. My oldest knows all about Grandpa and what happened when he drank, and what could happen if she does. She knows from me and school that alcohol is a drug and should be used responsibily. Bottom line - I've planted the seeds in her - what happens will happen but I'll be here every step. Yeah, I see some what of an additive nature in my kids, but we focus it to other areas. If you love kids, have them it's really that simple. So much can effect a childs life if it be hereditary, environment, social setting etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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