Disco Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Now, many a Rush fan has nodded his head with his friends as they all agree that Neil is a great lyricist, but, well, is he? I've got my Rush credentials under my belt but, between you and me, I've never seen that the lyrics were a highlight. I can't imagine pulling a pen out of Leonard Cohen's hands and giving it to Neil, nor Morrisey's or even, for that matter, Jarvis Cocker's. I really am happy to be shown to be wrong on this, so, givel me a few pointers as to why I'm wrong and Neil is, in fact, a dab hand with those word things. Disco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPeartFan2112 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I think Neil's lyrics are great because they are original. So many bands today write songs about the same things over and over again. That's one of the reasons why Rush is so great. They have that original sound to them, which goes along with the lyrics. Anyone agree with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzyy Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 QUOTE I think Neil's lyrics are great because they are original. So many bands today write songs about the same things over and over again. That's one of the reasons why Rush is so great. They have that original sound to them, which goes along with the lyrics. Anyone agree with me? I SURE DO! But I find he is great because of the way he writes things. Have you noticed that a lot of the lyrics refer to other songs he's written. Like Prime Mover relates with the album 'A Show of Hands' and Xanadu is kind of foreshadowing with Time Stand Still, according to Rush: Tribute. And also how none of the songs are about the same thing as NPF2112 mentioned. I just find that he is excellent at writing because everything he writes about can relate to everyday people and their situations. I JUST LOVE THE PROF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaine mac Roth Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Do I think Neil is a great lyricist? Why? 1) His lyrics are complex, articulate and meaningful only rarely slipping into pretension. Despite being a high school drop-out, he is intelligent and widely read, bringing this wealth of influence to his lyrics. 2) He doesn't preach to his audience. He lets us know how he feels about a particular subject but doesn't come across as if his is the final word on the matter. Although he has strongly held opinions, he appears willing to accept that other people may not agree. 3) His lyrics allow a degree of self-relevence. Rarely does he state things baldly, his lyrics allow each person to bring their own interpretation and find their own meaning. 4) He avoids cliche. The worst things about Rock lyrics throughout the history of the genre is that too many writers descend into cliche and banality. Neil, on the other hand, generally takes a fresh view of his subject matter and is all the more powerful for that. A classic example is the fact that there is no sexual innuendo in Red Barchetta whereas the car is generally seen as a penis extension. These are the main reasons I can come up. I won't say that Neil is the greatest lyricist of all time, but he is certainly one of the most original, inventive and stylish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPeartFan2112 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 QUOTE (yyzyy @ Nov 23 2004, 06:04 PM) QUOTE I think Neil's lyrics are great because they are original. So many bands today write songs about the same things over and over again. That's one of the reasons why Rush is so great. They have that original sound to them, which goes along with the lyrics. Anyone agree with me? I SURE DO! But I find he is great because of the way he writes things. Have you noticed that a lot of the lyrics refer to other songs he's written. Like Prime Mover relates with the album 'A Show of Hands' and Xanadu is kind of foreshadowing with Time Stand Still, according to Rush: Tribute. And also how none of the songs are about the same thing as NPF2112 mentioned. I just find that he is excellent at writing because everything he writes about can relate to everyday people and their situations. I JUST LOVE THE PROF. That's another excellent point. Forgot about that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I like his lyrics, they mean a lot to me, and for that reason and that reason only, I think he is a great writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Perhaps it's true when looking at all forms of expression that you have to judge themn on their own terms. It's no good complaining, for example, that hard techno doesn't have sophisicated counterpoint or that opera tends to lack pounding bass drums; you've got to look at each form of expression and judge it on its own terms - does it do what it sets out to do or is it just naff? I most enjoy lyrics with a real emotional connection (let's say to use the poeple I mentioned before 'Dance me to the end of love' by Leonard cohen) or which encapsulate an experience (say 'Sorted for Es and Whizz' by Pulp. I find Neil's lyrics lack this - or can someone point to where i missing something, or, perhhaps, i missing the whole way you've got to approach these lyrics. Well, I'd be grateful to know what you all think. Disco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaine mac Roth Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 QUOTE (Indica @ Nov 23 2004, 11:11 PM) I like his lyrics, they mean a lot to me, and for that reason and that reason only, I think he is a great writer. Well said Indy. Simple, elegant and heart felt And Disco, as for Neil's lyrics having a real emotional connection, I have, here and elsewhere, talked about the emotional impact Afterimage has had on me. My brother dies in 1988 and, afterwards, I was unable to listen to the song for about three or four years without ending up in floods of tears. Now, however, I can look at the song in a more detatched way and, in all honesty, I cannot think of another song that encapsulates the loss of someone close to you so well. By the same token, having lost a close friend to suicide, I find The Pass to be a succinct description of the wastefulness of suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPeartFan2112 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 QUOTE (Slaine mac Roth @ Nov 23 2004, 06:15 PM) QUOTE (Indica @ Nov 23 2004, 11:11 PM) I like his lyrics, they mean a lot to me, and for that reason and that reason only, I think he is a great writer. Well said Indy. Simple, elegant and heart felt You bet. Well said there Indica. Wow, this smile has HUGE teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 ...I should just mention, I case it appear that I'm not listening to you all, that by the time I had finished spelling out my reply I hadn't seen Slaine mac Roth's fullsome answer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRyder Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Peart is like any other musician/writer, some of his material is good, some of it isn't. Listen to songs like Resist, The Trees, Dreamline and The Pass- those are just good lyrics. But then listen to songs- no offense- but like a few of the obscure things off Vapor Trails- like "How It Is". His writing is good, no doubt about that, however sometimes I think he lacks flow, like in the above song. But other songs are really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPeartFan2112 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 QUOTE (GhostRyder @ Nov 23 2004, 06:22 PM) Peart is like any other musician/writer, some of his material is good, some of it isn't. Listen to songs like Resist, The Trees, Dreamline and The Pass- those are just good lyrics. But then listen to songs- no offense- but like a few of the obscure things off Vapor Trails- like "How It Is". His writing is good, no doubt about that, however sometimes I think he lacks flow, like in the above song. But other songs are really good. Neil has a few bad songs, but a large majority of them are good. In my opinion he is not just like any other musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzyy Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 QUOTE Neil has a few bad songs, but a large majority of them are good. In my opinion he is not just like any other musician. Well put...He is not like any other musician except for 2 others...Mr. Alex Lifeson, and Mr. Geddy Lee!!!!! Together they are the salt of the earth, and no 3 individuals put together can be a better force than what we know as RRRRRRUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH RRRRRRUUUUUUULLLLLLEEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-13 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Nov 23 2004, 03:59 PM) I think Neil's lyrics are great because they are original. So many bands today write songs about the same things over and over again. That's one of the reasons why Rush is so great. They have that original sound to them, which goes along with the lyrics. Anyone agree with me? Yea I do! His Lyrics are not the same woth other people....most bands talk about the same mush over and over again (sex, drugs, alcohol). Neil writes lyrics about the world...about lessons that we should and could live by, also the fact that he doesn't write about "His" feelings...but also puts it into a character or changes it to some type of symbol or theme in his songs....Neil you DA man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Neil can be a great lyricist, when he isn't trying too hard (ahem, HYF). But what anyone thinks is great is subjective. I was playing Natural Science and my friend who got me really into Rush said something about how pompous Neil's lyrics are, especially in that song, which I thought was surprising coming from this particular guy. It's always been a favorite of ours. His ideas are definitely great, but sometimes the execution gets a little funky. He's one of the best, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushRevisited Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Nov 23 2004, 08:23 PM) Neil can be a great lyricist, when he isn't trying too hard (ahem, HYF). But what anyone thinks is great is subjective. I was playing Natural Science and my friend who got me really into Rush said something about how pompous Neil's lyrics are, especially in that song, which I thought was surprising coming from this particular guy. It's always been a favorite of ours. His ideas are definitely great, but sometimes the execution gets a little funky. He's one of the best, I think. Very interesting he found that song to be "pompous". I never thought of it that way, but when you get down to it and think of it in those terms ("Living in their pools they soon forget about the sea") it could conceivably be viewed that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyz Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I love the lyrics in "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES-335 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 He is a lyricist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES-335 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 He is a lyricist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yeah, I don't think NS is nearly as pompous as say, bits of 2112, "giving forth a sound" and all. My buddy was referring to the "Science like nature..." part specifically, which I think can be taken as somewhat pompous. Though not as lofty as some of the stuff on HYF, which I also find a bit incohereant or lacking substance. But that's me. Some things I feel he hits right on the head, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 There's LEE, changing his name..... AGAIN!?! I thought you'd settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES-335 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Nov 23 2004, 09:32 PM) There's LEE, changing his name..... AGAIN!?! I thought you'd settled. Yea ... lol ... time for a change ... again!?!? at least it is almost the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostGirl Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I agree...Neil's a good lyricist, with a clunker thrown in occasionally (see "Dog Years") but this one is one of my favorites to show his creativity, the flow of the words and ideas, and so forth: I've got twelve disciples and a Buddha smile The Garden of Allah, Viking Valhalla A miracle once in a while I've got a pantheon of animals in a pagan soul Vishnu and Gaia - Aztec and Maya Dance around my totem pole I believe in what I see I believe in what I hear I believe that what I'm feeling Changes how the world appears Angels and demons dancing in my head Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed Media messiahs preying on my fears Pop culture prophets playing in my ears I've got celestial mechanics To synchronize my stars Seasonal migrations - daily variations World of the unlikely and bizarre I've got idols and icons, unspoken holy vows Thoughts to keep well-hidden - Sacred and forbidden Free to browse among the holy cows That's why I believe Angels and demons inside of me Saviors and Satans all around me Sweet chariot, swing low, coming for me I just think it's a cool idea, expressed in a really clever way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trance Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 QUOTE (GhostGirl @ Nov 23 2004, 10:57 PM) I agree...Neil's a good lyricist, with a clunker thrown in occasionally (see "Dog Years") but this one is one of my favorites to show his creativity, the flow of the words and ideas, and so forth: I've got twelve disciples and a Buddha smile The Garden of Allah, Viking Valhalla A miracle once in a while I've got a pantheon of animals in a pagan soul Vishnu and Gaia - Aztec and Maya Dance around my totem pole I believe in what I see I believe in what I hear I believe that what I'm feeling Changes how the world appears Angels and demons dancing in my head Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed Media messiahs preying on my fears Pop culture prophets playing in my ears I've got celestial mechanics To synchronize my stars Seasonal migrations - daily variations World of the unlikely and bizarre I've got idols and icons, unspoken holy vows Thoughts to keep well-hidden - Sacred and forbidden Free to browse among the holy cows That's why I believe Angels and demons inside of me Saviors and Satans all around me Sweet chariot, swing low, coming for me I just think it's a cool idea, expressed in a really clever way. I agree GG, that's one of my favs as well. Neil's writing has a way of making the listener think abstractly, which is amazing I think. Not too many have that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Personally, I can see how you mean that Neil has a tendancy to write lyrics that may not be emotionally connecting. There seem to be a handful of songs that dont really deal with emotion at all on most albums, but those arent the intended purpose of them. The Big Money or Driven arent songs that are lyrically designed to move you emotionally, they are songs that are more showcasing musicianship and melody, with lyrics that add to the feel of the song. There are however a great deal of songs in which the lyrics really seem to make emotion and energy just pour out of the song and into me. Songs like Animate, which seems like a desperate cry for appeal is just so well written, with a meaning behind it that can adapt to a great deal of different circumstances. My favorite song lyrically is The Analog Kid though. At the time I was really into Signals was a huge transition point in my life, and I could very much relate to the lyrics "When I leave I dont know what I'm hoping to find, and when I leave I dont know what I'm leaving behind". They are very intelligent lyrics written with a sense of observation of himself that is very difficult for a lot of people to do. He has a way of writing personal lyrics that can be adapted into a universal feeling, rather then a vent of his own feelings. That idea of lyrics being directed not about himself or about any specific thing is what makes him a much better lyricist IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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