rushdownunder Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 1 2008, 07:25 AM) God only asks that we believe. It's not about proof. And it's not my job to convince you. So, someone you've never met and can't be sure even exists or existed says you must believe in him, just because he said so? A little farfetched for me, but if it works for you, that's fine. All I'm saying is that we can't prove the existence of god, and I'm sure nobody ever will. And I know it's not your job to convince me, nor do I want you to convince me. I'm just stating that you - or nobody else for that matter - can truly believe something exists without having evidence that it exists. You can think that it exists, and it's pretty much the same thing. If something you believe in turns out to be false, it doesn't mean it stops being real to you. For example, I personally think that I'm a very ordinary drummer. Other people have told me that they think that I'm a great drummer. So whose right? Nobody. Just the same way that you're not right for believing in god, and I'm not right for not believing in god. If it works for you, great. If not, that's great too. And if you get upset over my opinion, that's when you're taking things too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I would not get upset over your opinion. I believe whole heartedly in my faith and have never swayed. However, I do think it's tragic when somebody has to ask for proof for everything under the sun. It's as if you don't trust anyone. That's a very negative outlook on life. If someone said to me "I love you", do I have to ask for proof? Or can I take their word for it and just accept it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdownunder Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 1 2008, 07:56 AM) I would not get upset over your opinion. I believe whole heartedly in my faith and have never swayed. However, I do think it's tragic when somebody has to ask for proof for everything under the sun. It's as if you don't trust anyone. That's a very negative outlook on life. If someone said to me "I love you", do I have to ask for proof? Or can I take their word for it and just accept it? If you read carefully CT, I'm not asking for you to actually produce evidence, I'm simply stating that if somebody did ask you to produce evidence, you couldn't. And don't you think that something such as a system that you base your life on is open to a little questioning? If someone said to me, "theres this guy named jesus that loves you, you're supposed to love him too", do you think I would say, "oh ok then, sure I'll love this person I've just heard of". Of course not, I'd have many more questions and would want a lot more information. Basing life decisions on facts rather than here-say is not negative if you ask me. Even if you did somehow manage to prove the existence of a god, it wouldn't matter to me. It's like the Queen of England - with Australia still being part of the monarchy, we're supposed to have some regard and respect for her. But to me, she's just an old woman with too much money and exposure. So even if you produced god and he knocked on my door, I still would not 'follow' him. And I'm glad my opinion doesn't upset you and won't sway you, that's good! That's why people shouldn't knock on my door and try to sway me. Religion is like herpes. If you've got it, keep it to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You're right, I can't produce evidence. And as I've stated before, it's not up to me to produce evidence. I can see based on what you've written that you're a happy and contented person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdownunder Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 1 2008, 08:29 AM) I can see based on what you've written that you're a happy and contented person. Correct, I am. And I can tell that you are as well. One of us goes with god, the other doesn't. Despite such a big difference, we're still surviving quite well in this crazy world. The problem I have with religion is when people use it as the basis to attack other human beings - by starting wars, etc. Trying to harm innocent people like you and I just because we don't believe in the same book they do. That's where I have a problem with those who fly the 'you must believe!' flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Wars should never be started on the basis of religious belief. Doesn't matter if the faith is "correct". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Is the train leaving for SOCN soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 QUOTE (Gompers @ Oct 1 2008, 12:18 PM) Is the train leaving for SOCN soon? don't look like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Unfortunately...this whole thread takes me back to when S&A was released. We had so many damn threads of people bashing God and religion, just because they didn't believe in it. Yes...we KNOW that Neil is not a "believer". He has both stated it, and made it very clear in his writings and lyrics. The bottom line is, this really has nothing to do with Rush's MUSIC, and that's the annoying part of all of this. I too am very religious, but you won't catch me trying to convince those who don't believe to do so. That is a personal choice. Faith is personal, and everyone has their views. People hate Dog Years...but you'll never find me crapping on them for it. Again...it's a matter of personal opinion. We should be talking about RUSH and their music in this section of the Forum. With all due respect to the original poster, I don't see why religion is brought up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Owl Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I smell a lock.............. As respect for the rules of the board I will not comment here. I have (as some of you know) expressed my views on this over @ SOCN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I got tired of the same ol' conversation in SOCN and have since kept myself out of it. And yet, here it is in the main Rush forum. I do ask that admins, mods, etc...please move this topic to where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron-priest18 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I personally feel like RTB displays my religious feelings in music form. I'm agnostic, and i do feel that RTB is a agnostic song, not an atheist one. Also, i agree with everything RushDownUnder has said. Basically took the words out of my mouth on religious stance. RushDownUnder= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Sep 30 2008, 11:44 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 30 2008, 09:37 PM) I believe in Jesus and I believe in God. In that case, you'd have no trouble in proving that god and jesus exist? Let's not get into one of those discussions around here. People of faith feel god. The proof is within themselves. I don't believe, but I don't choose to argue with those that do. It's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threesacrowd Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I don't care whatanyone says,this song kicks ass!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I hope Neil leaves the religious stuff at home for the next album. More condensed lyrics mean more space to jam, and it's easier for Ged to sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Owl Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I cant remember how many of these threads were shut down when S&A first came out...... There is a thread over in SOCN for this type of debate.......(almost 200 pages long)...........lets keep religion confined over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 2 2008, 04:12 PM) I hope Neil leaves the religious stuff at home for the next album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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