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The MVP and Team Performance


Rick N. Backer
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Trout is the MVP. Team performance shouldn't be a big factor in ascertaining who the MVP is. Trout.

Care to support that argument?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2019-batting-leaders.shtml

 

Stats dont lie.

MSAIAFE award.

 

 

Most statistically awesome in a failing effort.

Edited by goose
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

 

 

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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

Also, one's impact on teammates is certainly an aspect of value.
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

Also, one's impact on teammates is certainly an aspect of value.

Gerardo Parra, NL MVP.

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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

Edited by Rick N. Backer
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team

You keep saying that, yet haven't built a case for it.

 

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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team

BTW, the award is MVP of the league, not team.
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History supports my position. The MVP has been on a non first place team only 55 times out of 173. Not just a good season, a first place season.

 

Of the 173, Mike Trout, Ernie Banks(twice) and four others came from teams with losing seasons. A-rod, Mike Schmidt, Cal Ripken, Andre Dawson.

 

 

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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

 

I grew up in southeastern Connecticut, and lived there till September of '92. My father grew up in Newark, a 5 minute subway ride from Yankee Stadium. My team has always and only ever been the Yankees. I was with them in those wretched 80's years, with players like Ron Cey and Ed Whitson, who was run out of town. Losers like Ron Hassey and Steve Sax. Washed up legends like Luis Tiant and Phil Niekro. I watched the Brett pine tar game, and Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Red Sox. I'd usually go to 1 game a year, with stray trips to Fenway thrown in.

 

I'm a made guy.

 

But when I mentioned New York pizza, I really meant New Haven pizza which is generally acknowledged as some of the best in America

Edited by edhunter
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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

 

I grew up in southeastern Connecticut, and lived there till September of '92. My father grew up in Newark, a 5 minute subway ride from Yankee Stadium. My team has always and only ever been the Yankees. I was with them in those wretched 80's years, with players like Ron Cey and Ed Whitson, who was run out of town. Losers like Ron Hassey and Steve Sax. Washed up legends like Luis Tiant and Phil Niekro. I watched the Brett pine tar game, and Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Red Sox. I'd usually go to 1 game a year, with stray trips to Fenway thrown in.

 

I'm a made guy.

 

But when I mentioned New York pizza, I really meant New Haven pizza which is generally acknowledged as some of the best in America

 

Is Hartford the dividing line?

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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

 

I grew up in southeastern Connecticut, and lived there till September of '92. My father grew up in Newark, a 5 minute subway ride from Yankee Stadium. My team has always and only ever been the Yankees. I was with them in those wretched 80's years, with players like Ron Cey and Ed Whitson, who was run out of town. Losers like Ron Hassey and Steve Sax. Washed up legends like Luis Tiant and Phil Niekro. I watched the Brett pine tar game, and Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Red Sox. I'd usually go to 1 game a year, with stray trips to Fenway thrown in.

 

I'm a made guy.

 

But when I mentioned New York pizza, I really meant New Haven pizza which is generally acknowledged as some of the best in America

 

Is Hartford the dividing line?

 

Possibly. I know I was the only Yankee fan in my entire class in Uncasville.

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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

 

I grew up in southeastern Connecticut, and lived there till September of '92. My father grew up in Newark, a 5 minute subway ride from Yankee Stadium. My team has always and only ever been the Yankees. I was with them in those wretched 80's years, with players like Ron Cey and Ed Whitson, who was run out of town. Losers like Ron Hassey and Steve Sax. Washed up legends like Luis Tiant and Phil Niekro. I watched the Brett pine tar game, and Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Red Sox. I'd usually go to 1 game a year, with stray trips to Fenway thrown in.

 

I'm a made guy.

 

But when I mentioned New York pizza, I really meant New Haven pizza which is generally acknowledged as some of the best in America

 

Is Hartford the dividing line?

 

Possibly. I know I was the only Yankee fan in my entire class in Uncasville.

 

Surprising, since that's the location of a den of iniquity. You'd think it would be filled with them.

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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team

You keep saying that, yet haven't built a case for it.

I provided the stats. WAR says so. Where is your evidence that Bregman was more valuable?
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History supports my position. The MVP has been on a non first place team only 55 times out of 173. Not just a good season, a first place season.

 

Of the 173, Mike Trout, Ernie Banks(twice) and four others came from teams with losing seasons. A-rod, Mike Schmidt, Cal Ripken, Andre Dawson.

I think we are finding out that award winners should be judged on more than they previously had been judged.
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Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP

 

One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.

 

One game....that ruined your childhood.

 

I was nine years old, watching it with my dad in their bedroom. My dad's best friend came over, and with his thick Irish accent, yelled hey Vinny how are your Yankees doing? Then Dent hit it 520 feet. Or 298 feet. I can't remember. Then Reggie went deep, and sweet Lou dekes Burleson to keep him from advancing to 3rd on the sun ball.

 

Yes. A wonderful day. Then Sparky wrote a book about it all.

 

Until 2004.

 

Who did you root for between 1978 and 1996? Whoever was the best team during that time? Don’t recall you ever mentioning that you were from NY. When was that?

 

I grew up in southeastern Connecticut, and lived there till September of '92. My father grew up in Newark, a 5 minute subway ride from Yankee Stadium. My team has always and only ever been the Yankees. I was with them in those wretched 80's years, with players like Ron Cey and Ed Whitson, who was run out of town. Losers like Ron Hassey and Steve Sax. Washed up legends like Luis Tiant and Phil Niekro. I watched the Brett pine tar game, and Righetti's July 4 no-hitter against the Red Sox. I'd usually go to 1 game a year, with stray trips to Fenway thrown in.

 

I'm a made guy.

 

But when I mentioned New York pizza, I really meant New Haven pizza which is generally acknowledged as some of the best in America

 

Is Hartford the dividing line?

 

Possibly. I know I was the only Yankee fan in my entire class in Uncasville.

 

Surprising, since that's the location of a den of iniquity. You'd think it would be filled with them.

 

Well, growing up that den of iniquity was a nuclear plant.

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History supports my position. The MVP has been on a non first place team only 55 times out of 173. Not just a good season, a first place season.

 

Of the 173, Mike Trout, Ernie Banks(twice) and four others came from teams with losing seasons. A-rod, Mike Schmidt, Cal Ripken, Andre Dawson.

I think we are finding out that award winners should be judged on more than they previously had been judged.

You're re-defining the award? Then just say so.
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team

You keep saying that, yet haven't built a case for it.

I provided the stats. WAR says so. Where is your evidence that Bregman was more valuable?

More runs and rbi? Better batting avg? More walks than strikeouts? Filling in at shortstop when called upon to do so? Contributing 107 wins, vs a guy that only played in 134 total games?

 

 

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History supports my position. The MVP has been on a non first place team only 55 times out of 173. Not just a good season, a first place season.

 

Of the 173, Mike Trout, Ernie Banks(twice) and four others came from teams with losing seasons. A-rod, Mike Schmidt, Cal Ripken, Andre Dawson.

I think we are finding out that award winners should be judged on more than they previously had been judged.

You're re-defining the award? Then just say so.

No, more like reclaiming the definition from a bunch of inkstained Luddites.

Edited by laughedatbytime
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History supports my position. The MVP has been on a non first place team only 55 times out of 173. Not just a good season, a first place season.

 

Of the 173, Mike Trout, Ernie Banks(twice) and four others came from teams with losing seasons. A-rod, Mike Schmidt, Cal Ripken, Andre Dawson.

I think we are finding out that award winners should be judged on more than they previously had been judged.

You're re-defining the award? Then just say so.

No, more like reclaiming the definition from a bunch of inkstained Luddites.

3dyxnf.jpg
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The team performance shouldn't factor in to the award. Players arent responsible for the ineptitude of their teammates. Why should they be?

I don't think that's the question. To me the question is exceptional performance in a successful team campaign vs exceptional performance that is of no team consequence throughout a season.

 

As I've noted, there are numerous individual awards for statistical performance, MVP should - and traditionally has - reflect outstanding achievement throughout a successful team season.

The award isn't, "MVP from a winning team". Its simply MVP. One can be the most valuable on any team. Trout was the most valuable player in the AL to his team

You keep saying that, yet haven't built a case for it.

I provided the stats. WAR says so. Where is your evidence that Bregman was more valuable?

More runs and rbi? Better batting avg? More walks than strikeouts? Filling in at shortstop when called upon to do so? Contributing 107 wins, vs a guy that only played in 134 total games?

But who was more valuable to his team? It's close, but Trout is more valuable. And that's the name of the award.
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I am not sure what's worse for the game. Selfish players who don't care about becoming true hitters because the money is in home runs, or the stat Geeks who micro analyze every single bit of data to dictate game strategy. I remember when Miguel Cabrera won the Triple Crown, stat geeks were up in arms because someone else had better overall nerd stats.
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I am not sure what's worse for the game. Selfish players who don't care about becoming true hitters because the money is in home runs, or the stat Geeks who micro analyze every single bit of data to dictate game strategy. I remember when Miguel Cabrera won the Triple Crown, stat geeks were up in arms because someone else had better overall nerd stats.

I hear ya to an extent. The old way of voting was based on a set idea of which stats were most important to win a given award. The new stat nerds are showing that the old way wasn't necessarily the best way when voting for award winners. Baseball is by far the most stat-driven sport when it comes to debates. There seems to be no exact "correct" way to determine award winners, so the debate will go on!! :)
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