2019-20 Football/Soccer Thread

[IbanezJem]

The same people who were desperate for VAR are now thinking what a splendid idea it would be to play the rest of the Prem season without it (FIFA and IFAB have approved this but I`m sure it will stay as is, to try and delude us all into feeling this season has been completed fairly and legitimately) - I`d love that, go back to the old days, just to hear the old arguments about refereeing consistency and how they need support again. (That last sentence was a filthy lie).

[blackhawkrush]

The same people who were desperate for VAR are now thinking what a splendid idea it would be to play the rest of the Prem season without it (FIFA and IFAB have approved this but I`m sure it will stay as is, to try and delude us all into feeling this season has been completed fairly and legitimately) - I`d love that, go back to the old days, just to hear the old arguments about refereeing consistency and how they need support again. (That last sentence was a filthy lie).

I'm not surprised with the reluctance to accept VAR in Britain, which was always traditional-minded ( first refusing to play in the World Cup, then in the beginning not allowing for overtimes and penalty shootouts ) Personally, I don't like changes too, but I still believe that three pairs of eyes are better than one. Unless we're talking about three blind mice. I'm hoping that last sentence is a filthy lie.

[blackhawkrush]

The Great German Hope, Timo Werner scoreless against Hertha today. He remains three goals behind Lewandowski. :) Good to see Piatek finally get one, albeit from the penalty spot.

[Nova Carmina]

Prem is back on June 17! They're going to try to play all the remaining 92 matches, but LFC could clinch it in game one, if they win and Man City lose to Arsenal. So, game two, then . . .

 

Still not sure about neutral site games, etc.

[blackhawkrush]

Meanwhile in Austria, twelve points have been taken away from LASK Linz for conducting secret training sessions during the shutdown. As a result, the team is no longer the frontrunner and stands 3 points behind the new league leaders Salzburg.

[blackhawkrush]

Ekstraklasa starts up again in thirteen hours.

[blackhawkrush]

Ekstraklasa starts up again in thirteen hours.

First game has ended in a 1-1 draw. During the match, the TV station implemented fake sounds from the stands, recorded before the lockdown. It doesn't make sense to me, since the fans are not reacting to what is happening on the field. Who are they trying to fool, two-year-olds? :eyeroll:

[IbanezJem]

I like what they`ve done in Denmark, AGF filling the crowds with supporters watching via Zoom so there is an element of response to action. I wonder what the Premier League will do? It will infuriate the wealthy owners to realise they need fans or their product is soulless.

 

However, let us not be downhearted! Have you seen the schedule for the remaining matches??? The kick offs will be: Friday 8pm; Saturday 12.30pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, 8pm; Sunday 12pm, 2pm, 4.30pm, 5pm; Monday 8pm; Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday 6pm, 8pm. All televised! You may want to add a few hours for wherever you are, but it certainly looks like the days of spending time with my wife are drawing to a close :bump:

[blackhawkrush]

I like what they`ve done in Denmark, AGF filling the crowds with supporters watching via Zoom so there is an element of response to action. I wonder what the Premier League will do? It will infuriate the wealthy owners to realise they need fans or their product is soulless.

 

However, let us not be downhearted! Have you seen the schedule for the remaining matches??? The kick offs will be: Friday 8pm; Saturday 12.30pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, 8pm; Sunday 12pm, 2pm, 4.30pm, 5pm; Monday 8pm; Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday 6pm, 8pm. All televised! You may want to add a few hours for wherever you are, but it certainly looks like the days of spending time with my wife are drawing to a close :bump:

I don't have that problem with my wife. All the action over here ends around 4PM. Soccer action, that is. ;)

[Nova Carmina]

 

I don't have that problem with my wife. All the action over here ends around 4PM. Soccer action, that is. ;)

 

That's when the hockey action kicks off, right?

[Nova Carmina]

Well, Dusseldorf kept it close today, huh? Yeesh.

[blackhawkrush]

I don't have that problem with my wife. All the action over here ends around 4PM. Soccer action, that is. ;)

 

That's when the hockey action kicks off, right?

What is hockey? :codger:

[blackhawkrush]

Well, Dusseldorf kept it close today, huh? Yeesh.

That's the good news today, because the Polish league...I don't wanna talk about it.

[Nova Carmina]

Ekstraklasa starts up again in thirteen hours.

First game has ended in a 1-1 draw. During the match, the TV station implemented fake sounds from the stands, recorded before the lockdown. It doesn't make sense to me, since the fans are not reacting to what is happening on the field. Who are they trying to fool, two-year-olds? :eyeroll:

 

Don't the Bundesliga broadcasts have fake crowd noise, too? I don't think it's too distracting; it's not exactly timed with the action, but it provides that white noise that a real game ambiance has.

 

I like the Zoom/facebook live/whatever fan participation, too.

[blackhawkrush]

Ekstraklasa starts up again in thirteen hours.

First game has ended in a 1-1 draw. During the match, the TV station implemented fake sounds from the stands, recorded before the lockdown. It doesn't make sense to me, since the fans are not reacting to what is happening on the field. Who are they trying to fool, two-year-olds? :eyeroll:

 

Don't the Bundesliga broadcasts have fake crowd noise, too? I don't think it's too distracting; it's not exactly timed with the action, but it provides that white noise that a real game ambiance has.

 

I like the Zoom/facebook live/whatever fan participation, too.

I don't mind laugh tracks in comedies from the 1960s, but fake noise during games is going too far.

[Nova Carmina]

So the finals in the Bundesliga today were 4-1 and 6-1 (and Haaland didn't even play!). Is it my imagination, or is that league not really very competitive across its breadth?

[IbanezJem]

I don`t think it`s been a great advert so far, the return of the Bundesliga. It`s been something of a self-awarded badge of honour for the Premier League, smugly noting that other leagues are at best a duopoly; every time it seems like a side will dominate for a long time, a bunch of money is thrown at a team and they are top for a while, then someone catches them and so on. That`s why I consider the ownership model in Germany to be both desirable and ultimately limiting. Fans have a genuine stake and ne`er-do-well owners can`t buy on a whim, but competing at the silliest level is not viable. A financial levelling out across European leagues may well be a pleasant side effect of a global depression.

[blackhawkrush]

I don`t think it`s been a great advert so far, the return of the Bundesliga. It`s been something of a self-awarded badge of honour for the Premier League, smugly noting that other leagues are at best a duopoly; every time it seems like a side will dominate for a long time, a bunch of money is thrown at a team and they are top for a while, then someone catches them and so on. That`s why I consider the ownership model in Germany to be both desirable and ultimately limiting. Fans have a genuine stake and ne`er-do-well owners can`t buy on a whim, but competing at the silliest level is not viable. A financial levelling out across European leagues may well be a pleasant side effect of a global depression.

Talking about your last statement, there are rumors of something like that happening. We've been hearing about teams like Barcelona in financial trouble. I, for one, would love to see some variety at the Champions League level. I'm tired of seeing the same clubs fight it out year after year. Alas, a billionaire will soon help a Real Madrid rather than somebody from Hungary or Iceland.

[blackhawkrush]

So the finals in the Bundesliga today were 4-1 and 6-1 (and Haaland didn't even play!). Is it my imagination, or is that league not really very competitive across its breadth?

I agree, but we see this in Spain, France or Holland also. The scores may not always be so lopsided, but the names on the national trophies remain the same.

[IbanezJem]

Platini`s other legacy - Financial Fair Play - has either ruined everything or was a great idea badly implemented. With ring-fenced income for the Champion`s League clubs, so it is ball-numbingly repetitive (apart from the evermore bizarre looking one-off bid from Spurs, of course) FFP then pulled up the drawbridge to stop new entries that may be supported by an Abramovich or a human rights blind Saudi regime. City probably did break the rules, but rules that stop you investing heavily in your own club are weird. In theory, a billionaire can only invest in Madrid if he can stay within the restrictions, so he may be better off with a sleeping giant (Newcastle, who have a lot of income from large crowds plus the TV money, and run at a profit) than an awake giant who is already spending at its limits in terms of permitted annual losses.

 

The perfect world would have a Premier League of twenty clubs and coaches with the same resources and then a proper Battle Royale could commence... maybe this is nearer? How effective are salary caps in US sport? European competition would be a lot more fun each year with the occasionally minnow splashing about in the deep end.

[Nova Carmina]

NASCAR effectively has something like the "neutral start" because of the restrictions on size, shape, weight, etc*. Salary caps are an interesting question; I don't have the wherewithal to do a deep statistical dive, but they're implemented differently across the big leagues: in baseball, where the owners pay a "luxury tax" when they spend over a given amount, we do see a lot of the same teams, like the Yankees or Dodgers, again and again. Yes, there's a Kansas City Royals (2015 World Series champs!) every once and awhile, but baseball is not a free-for-all.

 

In the NFL, where there is a cap and an effective quasi-leveling draft where the best players go to the worst teams**, teams can and do go from worst to first (unless you're the Cowboys, in which case you stay mediocre for a quarter century). Still, in the last twenty years, a handful of teams (Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers) have made the playoffs pretty consistently.

 

I don't know that the NBA or NHL are dominated by the wealthiest clubs -- I assume the Montreal Canadians or Toronto Maple Leafs are fairly well-heeled clubs, but their recent success has been non-existent, and I don't think the '90s Chicago Bulls or the recent Golden State teams were the result of massive spending above and beyond what other teams can spend.

 

I'm in favor of salary caps -- and fan ownership hasn't hurt the Green Bay Packers' competitiveness -- because I would want at all costs to avoid the Real Madrid-ing or Bayern Munich-ing of sports leagues.

 

I know the Premier League seems like a closed, but bigger, shop, but at least the possibility of a Leicester is there.

 

 

* of the cars, not the drivers!

** unless you're a whiny crybaby like John Elway or Eli Manning (or Eric Lindros, for that matter)

[blackhawkrush]

Another hockey score in Bundesliga. Leipzig 4 Koln 2. Werner tallies once and stands four goals behind Lewandowski. To be continued...

[IbanezJem]

NASCAR effectively has something like the "neutral start" because of the restrictions on size, shape, weight, etc*. Salary caps are an interesting question; I don't have the wherewithal to do a deep statistical dive, but they're implemented differently across the big leagues: in baseball, where the owners pay a "luxury tax" when they spend over a given amount, we do see a lot of the same teams, like the Yankees or Dodgers, again and again. Yes, there's a Kansas City Royals (2015 World Series champs!) every once and awhile, but baseball is not a free-for-all.

 

In the NFL, where there is a cap and an effective quasi-leveling draft where the best players go to the worst teams**, teams can and do go from worst to first (unless you're the Cowboys, in which case you stay mediocre for a quarter century). Still, in the last twenty years, a handful of teams (Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers) have made the playoffs pretty consistently.

 

I don't know that the NBA or NHL are dominated by the wealthiest clubs -- I assume the Montreal Canadians or Toronto Maple Leafs are fairly well-heeled clubs, but their recent success has been non-existent, and I don't think the '90s Chicago Bulls or the recent Golden State teams were the result of massive spending above and beyond what other teams can spend.

 

I'm in favor of salary caps -- and fan ownership hasn't hurt the Green Bay Packers' competitiveness -- because I would want at all costs to avoid the Real Madrid-ing or Bayern Munich-ing of sports leagues.

 

I know the Premier League seems like a closed, but bigger, shop, but at least the possibility of a Leicester is there.

 

 

* of the cars, not the drivers!

** unless you're a whiny crybaby like John Elway or Eli Manning (or Eric Lindros, for that matter)

"John Elway or Eli Manning (or Eric Lindros, for that matter)..."

 

I don`t know who any of them are - shame on me! - so in the words of Homer, "keep looking shocked and move slowly toward the cake".

[Nova Carmina]

Yeah, sorry, that ^^^ post was pretty American-biased, wasn't it? To be brief, those were very good amateur players whose professional rights were acquired by crap teams (as is the system), and refused to play, ultimately forcing their way to different teams. Edited June 2, 2020 by Nova Carmina

[IbanezJem]

Yeah, sorry, that ^^^ post was pretty American-biased, wasn't it? To be brief, those were very good amateur players whose professional rights were acquired by crap teams (as is the system), and refused to play, ultimately forcing their way to different teams.

Well, I can hardly think of a UK-equivalent to that. More broadly, I`m pretty sure that at the very least the lower leagues of English football will have to consider salary caps, presumably that are graduated as you climb the football pyramid. Scottish football is pretty part-time below their Premier League, but the diehards insist there is a need for the 92 professional club system in England. Which is really weird, as every other country has B or C clubs and also manages a better national side, most of the time. Maybe I`d feel differently if I travelled the two miles to watch Northampton Town instead of supporting Tottenham. We moved to Northampton when I was the grand age of 16 months so I`m not considered local yet, and God knows their football is horrible :eyeroll: