Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the link. The history of this church is phenomenal. This is a tremendous loss. It's been there for 1200 years. Edited April 15, 2019 by Lorraine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librarian Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 :madra: i hope they can save something to rebuild upon. :madra: some of the statues were taken out before for cleaning. :madra: all we can do is wait and hope. :madra: No one was hurt or worse, if nothing else I am thankful for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 :madra: i hope they can save something to rebuild upon. :madra: some of the statues were taken out before for cleaning. :madra: all we can do is wait and hope. :madra: No one was hurt or worse, if nothing else I am thankful for that. That's what bothers me the most. Aside from the fact that it probably couldn't be rebuilt today to look the same, the relics, art work and other artifacts are irreplaceable. And the history attached to that cathedral. The things that took place there. Even St. Joan of Arc was there!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 :madra: i hope they can save something to rebuild upon. :madra: some of the statues were taken out before for cleaning. :madra: all we can do is wait and hope. :madra: No one was hurt or worse, if nothing else I am thankful for that. That's what bothers me the most. Aside from the fact that it probably couldn't be rebuilt today to look the same, the relics, art work and other artifacts are irreplaceable. And the history attached to that cathedral. The things that took place there. Even St. Joan of Arc was there!!! I have to assume the stained glass windows were likely blown out by the force of the fire. As far as I'm aware, the art of stained glass has largely diminished since those windows were made at Notre Dame. The odds that they could be fully restored would depend on an incredible amount of talent and effort which may or may not be obtainable. And that's really just the beginning. There were fragments of the Crown of Thorns and Jesus Christ's Cross, as well as many relics of many saints. The wooden frame of the roof which has most definitely burned was among the oldest structures in Paris. The wood dated back over 900 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 :madra: i hope they can save something to rebuild upon. :madra: some of the statues were taken out before for cleaning. :madra: all we can do is wait and hope. :madra: No one was hurt or worse, if nothing else I am thankful for that. That's what bothers me the most. Aside from the fact that it probably couldn't be rebuilt today to look the same, the relics, art work and other artifacts are irreplaceable. And the history attached to that cathedral. The things that took place there. Even St. Joan of Arc was there!!! I have to assume the stained glass windows were likely blown out by the force of the fire. As far as I'm aware, the art of stained glass has largely diminished since those windows were made at Notre Dame. The odds that they could be fully restored would depend on an incredible amount of talent and effort which may or may not be obtainable. And that's really just the beginning. There were fragments of the Crown of Thorns and Jesus Christ's Cross, as well as many relics of many saints. The wooden frame of the roof which has most definitely burned was among the oldest structures in Paris. The wood dated back over 900 years. I know. You can get stained glass windows but they don't come anywhere near to looking the same. I know because we have a few churches here that got them imported from Germany. They just don't look the same. They lack the richness of the old windows. It's the same with statues. Statues are made today, but they are missing the beauty of old statues. I could never figure that out - why we have such difficulty making beautiful works of art today. It's not the replaceable things I grieve, it's the irreplaceable items such as relics and other works of art. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 :madra: i hope they can save something to rebuild upon. :madra: some of the statues were taken out before for cleaning. :madra: all we can do is wait and hope. :madra: No one was hurt or worse, if nothing else I am thankful for that. That's what bothers me the most. Aside from the fact that it probably couldn't be rebuilt today to look the same, the relics, art work and other artifacts are irreplaceable. And the history attached to that cathedral. The things that took place there. Even St. Joan of Arc was there!!! I have to assume the stained glass windows were likely blown out by the force of the fire. As far as I'm aware, the art of stained glass has largely diminished since those windows were made at Notre Dame. The odds that they could be fully restored would depend on an incredible amount of talent and effort which may or may not be obtainable. And that's really just the beginning. There were fragments of the Crown of Thorns and Jesus Christ's Cross, as well as many relics of many saints. The wooden frame of the roof which has most definitely burned was among the oldest structures in Paris. The wood dated back over 900 years. I know. You can get stained glass windows but they don't come anywhere near to looking the same. I know because we have a few churches here that got them imported from Germany. They just don't look the same. They lack the richness of the old windows. It's the same with statues. Statues are made today, but they are missing the beauty of old statues. I could never figure that out - why we have such difficulty making beautiful works of art today. It's not the replaceable things I grieve, it's the irreplaceable items such as relics and other works of art. In the Middle Ages and the renaissance in Europe, artistry was simply a much more culturally valued ideal. So naturally more people became artists and those who were the best became even better because of the resources and attitude that their culture had for art and artists. Nowadays we have more scientists, engineers, doctors, politicians, businesspeople, IT staff...art is not given the attention and care it requires to become as great as it was in those times. On the other hand, we don’t have the Black Plague, we can communicate instantly over impossibly long distances, those of us in democratic nations have an actual say in the way we are governed, and many other modern marvels have been made possible. Times are different, but not really worse, however losing the past becomes more tragic when we can not recreate it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostRider Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Thanks for the link. The history of this church is phenomenal. This is a tremendous loss. It's been there for 1200 years. Very sad about the loss of much of the church. I visited it a couple years back and had no idea someone could do that to a church. It’s highly suspicious and I believe it was likely intentionally set, as in arson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14221/turkey-celebrate-fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gateston...fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?" That's disgusting. Not that I don't believe France was ever colonialist and violent in the name of religion (one concept that I've never made the least bit of sense out of...religious violence...holy wars....pathetic bloodlust more like it) and brutally so to Turkey. I'm sure history shows this well (though I vaguely recall learning that an Armenian genocide is a very real thing which has never been fully brought to justice or to light...admittedly I heard about it from System Of A Down). But regardless of history...how can you laugh that others weep for the burning of their culture and history? How can you celebrate the destruction of one of the greatest buildings ever made? How can you feel such resentment for an entire people that their misery satisfies you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueschica Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gateston...fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?"Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gateston...fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?" That's disgusting. Not that I don't believe France was ever colonialist and violent in the name of religion (one concept that I've never made the least bit of sense out of...religious violence...holy wars....pathetic bloodlust more like it) and brutally so to Turkey. I'm sure history shows this well (though I vaguely recall learning that an Armenian genocide is a very real thing which has never been fully brought to justice or to light...admittedly I heard about it from System Of A Down). But regardless of history...how can you laugh that others weep for the burning of their culture and history? How can you celebrate the destruction of one of the greatest buildings ever made? How can you feel such resentment for an entire people that their misery satisfies you? :( :( Very sad, however as we used to say in library school, Gatestone Institute is not an unbiased scholarly source . . . ;) ;) Edited May 20, 2019 by blueschica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gateston...fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?"Plenty of Turks apparently celebrated Notre Dame's burning... https://www.gateston...fire-notre-dame "While it was burning, I prayed to God, saying, 'Burn it even more, oh God, curse and ruin it.' You wonder why? One feels like rejoicing over the burning of the colonialist, brutal France, which shed the blood of about 1.5 million Muslims and then 1 million additional Muslims; which beheaded them and exhibited their heads at museums; and which falsely accuses Turkey of massacring Armenians.... What can one even say to France that mocks our prophet and wants to change the verses in the Koran?" That's disgusting. Not that I don't believe France was ever colonialist and violent in the name of religion (one concept that I've never made the least bit of sense out of...religious violence...holy wars....pathetic bloodlust more like it) and brutally so to Turkey. I'm sure history shows this well (though I vaguely recall learning that an Armenian genocide is a very real thing which has never been fully brought to justice or to light...admittedly I heard about it from System Of A Down). But regardless of history...how can you laugh that others weep for the burning of their culture and history? How can you celebrate the destruction of one of the greatest buildings ever made? How can you feel such resentment for an entire people that their misery satisfies you? :( :( Very sad, however as we used to say in library school, Gatestone Institute is not an unbiased scholarly source . . . ;) ;) Yeah after reading through that article...the author or publisher seems intent on fanning an "us vs. them" mentality out of the flames of those quotes...which actually I'm not sure they cited...don't really care to revisit the article and check... Look. I'm Catholic. I'm just as upset if the Parthenon, the Pantheon, Notre Dame, Westminster Abbey, St. Patrick's Cathedral, The Al Haram, The Dome of the Rock, The Taj Mahal, The Great Wall of China, The Sydney Opera House, or the Empire State Building is damaged. I don't care who or what the building was built to worship, great architecture and important history aught to be preserved and respected by all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMontanaSKY Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 It hurt to watch that cathedral burn. Of course it was lovely that Salma Hayek and her husband pledged to help rebuild it. Classy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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