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Lorraine
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What makes a good one?

 

Does it require an innate talent or is it something that a person can learn?

 

Do you have to go to a school to become one, or is it something a person can just kind of fall into?

 

Who do you consider the best ones and what made them so good?

 

 

 

Thread inspired by this: https://forums.ledzeppelin.com/topic/6555-mixing-led-zeppelin-ii/

I found it a fascinating read.

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I've always been interested in sound (mostly production/mixing side, not the science or experimental stuff). I'd say you need to have a passion for it, and to make things sound good probably some degree of innate ability ("good ears"). The rest is trail, error, training, and patience.
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I think it takes a special talent to be able to perceive things that I'm sure lots of people consider fairly abstract - notes have pitch but also tonality and color and depth; there is good "separation" between sounds; things are optimally placed within the stereo spectrum; vocals can be enhanced by reverb, making a "dry" sound "wet"; then there's compression and equalization and lots of other factors to consider. Where should the amps be placed in the room, where should the mics be placed, how do you mix a direct input and input from a microphone. It boggles my mind, actually. When I record stuff, I just get what I get. I don't want to drive myself crazy...
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Here's another question.

 

How does a band go from what's on a demo tape to the final product on the album?

 

Trial, error, gear, and patience. :P

 

I'd say there's consistently three main differences between the demo and final mix:

 

1) Recording in the studio, with proper equipment setup as toymaker described. Demos are often self produced in someone's garage or bedroom using inferior equipment.

 

2) Take after take of recording. Especially now in the digital era, you can get things fairly polished or very close to be corrected in a computer later.

 

3) Time spent polishing tracks, eventually sending them off to a specialist (mastering engineer) for final adjustment. Some artists like Steven Wilson have started to skip this step and believe their mix should be good enough when it leaves their hands, otherwise they failed to properly mix it. In contrast, a demo is usually a fairly raw recording (could even be recorded live in the garage/bedroom), and isn't recorded in a manner that allows good adjustment of the individual instruments. I've heard good demo recordings though, sometimes a bad mix is masked by good music.

Edited by stoopid
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Insight into production is one of the reasons that I love the Behind the Music series. You get to see how the sounds on great albums were achieved, the different layers, what they used used and - sometimes equally important - what they didn't.

 

Rumors, Aja, A Night At The Opera, Joshua Tree...

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I think it takes a special talent to be able to perceive things that I'm sure lots of people consider fairly abstract - notes have pitch but also tonality and color and depth; there is good "separation" between sounds; things are optimally placed within the stereo spectrum; vocals can be enhanced by reverb, making a "dry" sound "wet"; then there's compression and equalization and lots of other factors to consider. Where should the amps be placed in the room, where should the mics be placed, how do you mix a direct input and input from a microphone. It boggles my mind, actually. When I record stuff, I just get what I get. I don't want to drive myself crazy...

 

No, no, no. Engineers suck. They have no interest in the drummer's input, they're cranky, sarcastic, they complain when you put a drink or an ashtray on their precious little console, they have shitty taste in music, no beer in their fridge, and are always yelling "shut up!" Who needs 'em?

Signed;

Lars

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I still would like to know if you have to go to school for it or if it's something you can just step into.

 

How would anyone even know if they have a talent for it?

 

I think I knew all along. But it took applying myself and bit of spare cash to realize that vision.

 

You don't need schooling, but you need credentials and no one wants to work with someone who doesn't have formal training/credentials. It's an unfair practice but common in many disciplines. Schooling certainly can't hurt, if you have rich parents it won't even hurt the wallet.

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While I call myself an engineer, I'm more the bastardized 2019 definition. I'm purely digital now (only minor analog experienced from waaay back). I work out of a converted bedroom. I do 90% of my mixing on headphones. I use simulators for most things, versus spending a shit ton on outboard equipment. My mixes are limited due to the quality of the source material, which is usually amateurs recording themselves at home and providing me with their tracks. If I had a studio and musicians came to me the overall quality would increase, although its arguable if it would exponentially or that the cost to achieve the improvement could be justified.
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I still would like to know if you have to go to school for it or if it's something you can just step into.

 

How would anyone even know if they have a talent for it?

 

I think I knew all along. But it took applying myself and bit of spare cash to realize that vision.

 

You don't need schooling, but you need credentials and no one wants to work with someone who doesn't have formal training/credentials. It's an unfair practice but common in many disciplines. Schooling certainly can't hurt, if you have rich parents it won't even hurt the wallet.

 

How did you know?

 

What kind of schooling? Just college? Majoring in what? Or are there specialty schools?

Edited by Lorraine
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While I call myself an engineer, I'm more the bastardized 2019 definition. I'm purely digital now (only minor analog experienced from waaay back). I work out of a converted bedroom. I do 90% of my mixing on headphones. I use simulators for most things, versus spending a shit ton on outboard equipment. My mixes are limited due to the quality of the source material, which is usually amateurs recording themselves at home and providing me with their tracks. If I had a studio and musicians came to me the overall quality would increase, although its arguable if it would exponentially or that the cost to achieve the improvement could be justified.

What would you have done before digital?

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While I call myself an engineer, I'm more the bastardized 2019 definition. I'm purely digital now (only minor analog experienced from waaay back). I work out of a converted bedroom. I do 90% of my mixing on headphones. I use simulators for most things, versus spending a shit ton on outboard equipment. My mixes are limited due to the quality of the source material, which is usually amateurs recording themselves at home and providing me with their tracks. If I had a studio and musicians came to me the overall quality would increase, although its arguable if it would exponentially or that the cost to achieve the improvement could be justified.

 

Nice!

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I still would like to know if you have to go to school for it or if it's something you can just step into.

 

How would anyone even know if they have a talent for it?

One avenue is to go to school. EWU had a big Radio/TV department back when I went to school, and I had friends that studied sound engineering. But it's like other music-related professions in that some are classically trained while others may learn on the job, perhaps by growing up as the child of a musician.

 

Either way, there is a science and an art to recording and engineering, as well as trend influences. When the band Oasis broke, they engineered their sound to be louder than other albums, which started the infamous Loudness War. The late 80s/early 90s' sparklingly crisp production is another trend.

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I still would like to know if you have to go to school for it or if it's something you can just step into.

 

How would anyone even know if they have a talent for it?

 

I think I knew all along. But it took applying myself and bit of spare cash to realize that vision.

 

You don't need schooling, but you need credentials and no one wants to work with someone who doesn't have formal training/credentials. It's an unfair practice but common in many disciplines. Schooling certainly can't hurt, if you have rich parents it won't even hurt the wallet.

 

How did you know?

 

What kind of schooling? Just college? Majoring in what? Or are there specialty schools?

 

An above average interest in audio, music, fidelity. I was always the guy setting up the 4 track in college to capture the jams, and I got fairly good (and creative) at mic placements, etc in order to get everyone at a decent enough level to be able to mix something acceptable later. Always spent a bit extra on good speakers, amp, etc even when only casually into music making. Have been told I'm decent at what I do, and was involved in many projects (then and now) where my technical mixing abilities are seemingly the only reason I would be involved.

 

There's a bunch of studio/engineering schools. There's disciplines within the field, some trend toward sound design , some as musicians, some as technical studio specialists (engineers, mixers, mastering engineers). Looking back I certainly could have made the plunge into any one of those (maybe not musician) and perhaps found success. That's hindsight, leaving mid career for that isn't something I would invite now at 43. Couldn't afford it even if I wanted anyway.

 

So why you asking these questions? It might help to know to get to the heart of what you're seeking...

Edited by stoopid
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I still would like to know if you have to go to school for it or if it's something you can just step into.

 

How would anyone even know if they have a talent for it?

 

I think I knew all along. But it took applying myself and bit of spare cash to realize that vision.

 

You don't need schooling, but you need credentials and no one wants to work with someone who doesn't have formal training/credentials. It's an unfair practice but common in many disciplines. Schooling certainly can't hurt, if you have rich parents it won't even hurt the wallet.

 

How did you know?

 

What kind of schooling? Just college? Majoring in what? Or are there specialty schools?

 

An above average interest in audio, music, fidelity. I was always the guy setting up the 4 track in college to capture the jams, and I got fairly good (and creative) at mic placements, etc in order to get everyone at a decent enough level to be able to mix something acceptable later. Always spent a bit extra on good speakers, amp, etc even when only casually into music making. Have been told I'm decent at what I do, and was involved in many projects (then and now) where my technical mixing abilities are seemingly the only reason I would be involved.

 

There's a bunch of studio/engineering schools. There's disciplines within the field, some trend toward sound design , some as musicians, some as technical studio specialists (engineers, mixers, mastering engineers). Looking back I certainly could have made the plunge into any one of those (maybe not musician) and perhaps found success. That's hindsight, leaving mid career for that isn't something I would invite now at 43. Couldn't afford it even if I wanted anyway.

 

So why you asking these questions? It might help to know to get to the heart of what you're seeking...

 

Curiosity.

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Lorraine, have you seen the Behind the Music for the Rumors album? It's fascinating.

This Behind The Music series?

 

http://youtu.be/dK-BlcYKeuI

 

 

EDIT: That's 43 minutes of my life I just wasted.

Wait...it's the Classic Albums series. But, awesome Partridge Family link!

I wondered why I was having a hard time finding it. I'll try again.

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As an aspiring engineer & producer, everything you said is correct. Good ears AND experience/training. Learning how different frequencies react to compression and EQ is a fascinating thing. There are so many ways to achieve the sound you want but unless you know how specific microphones, preamps, compressors, EQs, converters and even computer software work in tandem with each other, it's more or less a crapshoot. NOBODY goes into a studio for the first time and rips out something like Dark Side of the Moon or Aja. Of course, the first and foremost thing to a good recording is the musician and performance. And every time a session takes place, the engineer learns something. It is a constant process of enlightenment. There is no plateau. Edited by sonoflife
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I think you have to have curiosity and interest even above the ear for it. It can be a learned thing for sure, as a lot of engineers I have read about have attested. But you do have to be open, curious, patient, a problem solver, and open to working long and hard hours. Obviously that is just part of it....and an ear and musical knowledge doesn’t hurt things for sure. Some of the best engineers are great musicians themselves and others couldn’t pluck a note if they tried.
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As an aspiring engineer & producer, everything you said is correct. Good ears AND experience/training. Learning how different frequencies react to compression and EQ is a fascinating thing. There are so many ways to achieve the sound you want but unless you know how specific microphones, preamps, compressors, EQs, converters and even computer software work in tandem with each other, it's more or less a crapshoot. NOBODY goes into a studio for the first time and rips out something like Dark Side of the Moon or Aja. Of course, the first and foremost thing to a good recording is the musician and performance. And every time a session takes place, the engineer learns something. It is a constant process of enlightenment. There is no plateau.

 

Couldn't agree more. Constant learning process, no plateau as you say. How frequences interact with each other in each situation and the myriad of ways you can address this.

Edited by condemned2bfree
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As an aspiring engineer & producer, everything you said is correct. Good ears AND experience/training. Learning how different frequencies react to compression and EQ is a fascinating thing. There are so many ways to achieve the sound you want but unless you know how specific microphones, preamps, compressors, EQs, converters and even computer software work in tandem with each other, it's more or less a crapshoot. NOBODY goes into a studio for the first time and rips out something like Dark Side of the Moon or Aja. Of course, the first and foremost thing to a good recording is the musician and performance. And every time a session takes place, the engineer learns something. It is a constant process of enlightenment. There is no plateau.

 

So it's a lot more complicated than it sounds.

 

Other than an intense love for music, would an aptitude for some other art or science be of any help, or is the love for music enough?

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