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Cinderella Man - Guitar solo question (kind of technical)


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#1 Relayer2112

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

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#2 tks95747

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:48 AM

I have a Floyd Rose tremolo on both of my guitars and i hear a similar noise when I dive bomb and come back up... I have always attributed it to the springs slowly coming back to level..  It is a sort of a ticking/creaking noise...

#3 JARG

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:42 PM

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

Castanets (or some other sort of small percussive instrument)?

Edited by JARG, 06 December 2018 - 12:57 PM.


#4 1-0-0-1-0-0-1

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:45 PM

View Posttks95747, on 06 December 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

I have a Floyd Rose tremolo on both of my guitars and i hear a similar noise when I dive bomb and come back up... I have always attributed it to the springs slowly coming back to level..  It is a sort of a ticking/creaking noise...

My Strat had noisy trem springs. I'd hear it when I brought the bar down and up, and I also heard some weird vibrations coming through the amp, like this weird feedback. I put some foam inside the springs and it solved the problem.

These guys used rubber or plastic tubing, but it's the same principle. You can hear the weird feedback ringing thing in the first vid.





#5 treeduck

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:24 PM

It's a whammy wah wah festival! :guitar:

#6 Relayer2112

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 11:47 AM

To me it sounds like he's trying to rip the neck and/or bridge off the freak'n guitar.  I love just about every solo he has done, but I appreciate the energy he puts into this solo in particular (like he did much later with Kid Gloves).

#7 Fridge

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:35 PM

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

I think it's almost certainly him pressing down on the string above the nut, as to my knowledge he wasn't using guitars with a tremolo at that time, unless of course he made an exception for that track.

#8 JARG

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:44 PM

View PostFridge, on 07 December 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

I think it's almost certainly him pressing down on the string above the nut, as to my knowledge he wasn't using guitars with a tremolo at that time, unless of course he made an exception for that track.

The sound seems to be in perfect time with the song, which, while coincidentially possible, makes me think the sound isn't an accidental artifact.

#9 MalformedEarthborn

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:12 PM

View PostJARG, on 07 December 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 07 December 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

I think it's almost certainly him pressing down on the string above the nut, as to my knowledge he wasn't using guitars with a tremolo at that time, unless of course he made an exception for that track.

The sound seems to be in perfect time with the song, which, while coincidentially possible, makes me think the sound isn't an accidental artifact.

I agree, it always sounded intentional to me but my guess was it was him tapping on the pickup. What do I know though

#10 tks95747

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:16 PM

View PostFridge, on 07 December 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

I think it's almost certainly him pressing down on the string above the nut, as to my knowledge he wasn't using guitars with a tremolo at that time, unless of course he made an exception for that track.
I wonder, though, if that would cause the clicking/ticking/creaking sound he's describing? The springs on my tremolo system make almost the exact same noise as the springs contract back to level. I suppose if the nut was pitted or uneven, it could possibly cause the staccato ticking/clicking/creaking noise....

#11 tks95747

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:17 PM

View PostMalformedEarthborn, on 07 December 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

View PostJARG, on 07 December 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

View PostFridge, on 07 December 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

View PostRelayer2112, on 06 December 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before or not.  I apologize in advance if it has.

In the guitar solo for "Cinderella Man", Alex goes wild with his whammy bar and at two distinct times during the solo (at the beginning and end) it sounds like he does a dive and then pulls back on the the tremolo to increase the pitch beyond the original note.  He's does almost the exact same thing twice in the solo and, at both times as the pitch is rising, I hear a pretty loud creaking sound.

My assumption is that he is not pulling up on the tremolo arm, but possibly using a finger to press down on a string above the nut to increase the pitch (a trick that I know Jimmy Page used from time to time).  This "creaking" sound could then possibly be the string straining against the nut.

I would guess that he didn't have a floating tremolo back then (i'm not sure when they started to become popular) to pull this off another way.

Any opinions as to what this sound is?

I think it's almost certainly him pressing down on the string above the nut, as to my knowledge he wasn't using guitars with a tremolo at that time, unless of course he made an exception for that track.

The sound seems to be in perfect time with the song, which, while coincidentially possible, makes me think the sound isn't an accidental artifact.

I agree, it always sounded intentional to me but my guess was it was him tapping on the pickup. What do I know though
Now, that is a very interesting point that you make. EVH was known to have done that and, now that I recall, it did sound similar to the noise in Alex's solo..

#12 grasbo

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:46 PM

Alex was using his white Gibson ES355 which had a whammy bar set up not really used to dive bombing exercises.This guitar which i assume he used as he was yet to discover Fenders and this is definitely not the sound of a Fender is what they call a semi acoustic/hollowbody.Their construction is more fragile than a solidbody.If you go wild on these guitars they can emit creaks and groans from anywhere not to mention feedback.I have a similar guitar and if i go wild on it usually its the strings creaking across the bridge or anywhere the strings are in contact.This is amplified through the pickup.A common practice is to rub graphite on these surfaces which also lessons string breakage.Alex on Cinderella Man is really going to town on the whammy and the wah wah pedal ,but i am not all that keen on the solo but then i do have an aversion to wah pedals.I sold my two but i would gladly have thrown them at Kirk Hammets head since he seems to stomp on one whenever he has a chance to solo.For me Hendrix was the one who used a wah constructively and inventively.

#13 grasbo

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:50 PM

Listen to Ed Van Halen on the track Intruder(Diver Down) for all manner of creaks and groans,some deliberate,some accidental,wnile he is mangling the whammy.

#14 tks95747

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:32 PM

View Postgrasbo, on 07 December 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Listen to Ed Van Halen on the track Intruder(Diver Down) for all manner of creaks and groans,some deliberate,some accidental,wnile he is mangling the whammy.
Edward could really coax some other-worldly noises out of his guitars...




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