Do Rush have many bandwagon fans?

[diatribein]

tldr

 

But it is what I do! If we are using that parlance then: Username checks out!

[edhunter]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

This attitude a little exemplifies what I don't understand about many of the opinions I hear voiced on this board. There are 11 (12 if you count Feedback) RUSH albums from 1982 onward and only 8 albums before. The two other albums released in the 80s could be considered transitional, since songs like Vital Signs and Spirit Of Radio musically would feel at home on Signals or Grace Under Pressure. So let's take your statement as fact, for a segment of the fan base that joined in the 1970s: Signals left fans perplexed at what they were listening to and presumably did not like the album or the subsequent releases. So why stick around? Especially why still call yourself a fan after 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 consecutive albums you dislike??? I mean, if you hate Roll The Bones and the 5 albums that came before it, why would you call this band a favourite? There are bands in my collection that I loved their first few albums, but didn't like subsequent albums. I do not consider those bands favourites. I would never bother patronizing a fan board or devoting so much energy to a band that spent the majority of its time creating music I dislike. What a fantastic waste of energy and life that would be!

 

The bands I consider favourites are characterized by having an album I loved when I discovered them, followed by subsequent albums that I enjoyed equally or greater. A poor album here or there is fine as long as the vast majority (like 75%) of the albums the band releases after the point I join in are awesome by my standards. I judge albums released prior to my join point a little differently: Depending on how long the band continues after my personal join in point, prior albums decrease in importance as far as needing them to be awesome. For example, I dislike most of Caress Of Steel, Hemispheres, The 1st Album, and even feel nonplussed about 2112 & Fly By Night, but the fact that I love Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and almost all of the subsequent albums means that not only do I love the majority of the RUSH catalogue, but the band has generally been on an upward trajectory in my opinion. Why would I be interested in a band that I feel is just getting worse all the time, especially if that point came 9 albums into a 19 album career!!!

 

I see this opinion voiced often here (Rush albums have gotten progressively worse since Hemispheres with few exceptions). I postulate to you that if Signals was your breaking point and that you like little that the band has released since, then you don't actually like RUSH. You like specific albums in a short time period that RUSH released before they happened upon the sound they ultimately preferred and spent the rest of their career perfecting. Loving Hemispheres above all other albums by all bands doesn't make you a huge RUSH fan. It makes you a huge fan of that album. Even if those 8 albums prior to Signals are your 8 favourite albums of all time, but hate 9 through 19, you are still not really a RUSH fan as much as a fan of a sound that for all intents and purposes is dated. It is dated to the point that the band themselves never completely revisited it and only ever came close to reproducing on their final album. I'm not trying to start a fight. I am legitimately confused as to why someone would call themselves a RUSH fan if they dislike everything they've released after Moving Pictures. I certainly would not.

 

Without reading past the first few lines, the thread is about BANDWAGON fans. Of which there were plenty as the sales totals from Moving Pictures onward proves. If not they'd be as popular today as in '81. My brother graduated high school that year. His yearbook lists Rush as one of the top 5 favorite bands of the senior class. Today they wouldn't make the top 100.

[goose]

tldr

 

But it is what I do! If we are using that parlance then: Username checks out!

[edhunter]

It's like me with Maiden or Metallica. There was a period where I was really into them, around Somewhere in Time for Maiden and Justice for Metallica. But I didn't buy the next album till nearly a decade after they came out. Doesn't mean I'm not a fan....

[balance]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought Fly By Night in 1975 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 76.. :codger:

[edhunter]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought Fly By Night in 1975 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 76.. :codger:

 

Yes I can. My first album was the debut, pre-Broon mix. They headlined my backyard Blue Jays season ender party....

[vaportrailer]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

I postulate to you that if Signals was your breaking point and that you like little that the band has released since, then you don't actually like RUSH.

 

 

But I thought I liked Rush. :(

 

Okay then, I don't like Rush. Can I still play on your board? :D

 

I postulate to you that you are errant in your postulation.

We likers of Rush may not be uber-fans, but we don't hate them. Except for Neil. What a dick.

[Fordgalaxy]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

I postulate to you that if Signals was your breaking point and that you like little that the band has released since, then you don't actually like RUSH.

 

 

But I thought I liked Rush. :(

 

Okay then, I don't like Rush. Can I still play on your board? :D

 

I postulate to you that you are errant in your postulation.

We likers of Rush may not be uber-fans, but we don't hate them. Except for Neil. What a dick.

That's okay, he hates you too.

[vaportrailer]

Signals drove them away.

 

Wrong. This is the first Rush album I bought. And I'm not alone.

 

So that means you can't speak for the folks who bought 2112 in 1976 and wondered what the hell they were listening to in 82

 

I postulate to you that if Signals was your breaking point and that you like little that the band has released since, then you don't actually like RUSH.

 

 

But I thought I liked Rush. :(

 

Okay then, I don't like Rush. Can I still play on your board? :D

 

I postulate to you that you are errant in your postulation.

We likers of Rush may not be uber-fans, but we don't hate them. Except for Neil. What a dick.

That's okay, he hates you too.

 

He'd better or I'd be very disappointed. :P

[upstateNYfan]

I would estimate their bandwagon fans make up about 10-20% of each audience, with the biggest bumps right after MP (Signals), RTB (from big airplay), then around Time Machine Tour (documentary, movie appearance, and retrospective setlist).

 

They've been so successful live for many reasons, but bandwagon fans are only a small part.

[Fordgalaxy]

I would estimate their bandwagon fans make up about 10-20% of each audience, with the biggest bumps right after MP (Signals), RTB (from big airplay), then around Time Machine Tour (documentary, movie appearance, and retrospective setlist).

 

They've been so successful live for many reasons, but bandwagon fans are only a small part.

I think the % of people at a Rush concert who are dedicated enough to regularly post on a message board, is much smaller. I know a lot of people who are aware of rush and like them enough to go to most of their concerts, (but they also go to just about every other rock concert that rolls through town, including Nickleback) but would in no way be considered a hard core fan.

[New_World_Man]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Dream Theater

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

Edited May 4, 2018 by New_World_Man

[Rick N. Backer]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

[RUSHHEAD666]

I've been to 60 shows in 30 years.

Never met a bandwagon Rush fan in my life.

 

Well then, actually I did marry one.

 

Thank the Metal Godz I am free now.

 

"Cold Fire" will burn for all eternally in my soul.

[NewWorldScott]

It doesn't matter to me. The more people who hear and appreciate their music the better. Edited May 8, 2018 by NewWorldScott

[goose]

It doesn't matter to me. The more people who hear and appreciate their music the better.

:goodone:

[thizzellewashington]

It doesn't matter to me. The more people who hear and appreciate their music the better.

Agree 100%

[New_World_Man]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

[Rick N. Backer]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

[goose]

http://cygnus-x1.net/links/rush/images/books/prog-02.2016/prog-02.2016-10.jpg

[New_World_Man]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

 

A higher percentage of people think Brittany Spears and Madonna is better than Kajagoogoo too for that matter or Missing Persons to throw in another eighties new wave band. So what? Besides, Kajagoogoo had Nick Beggs on bass. Did you know that? DO you know who Nick Beggs is? We all know popularlity doesn't equal greater than less popular. Well maybe you don't but most do.

Edited May 18, 2018 by New_World_Man

[goose]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

 

A higher percentage of people think Brittany Spears and Madonna is better than Kajagoogoo too for that matter or Missing Persons to throw in another eighties new wave band. So what? Besides, Kajagoogoo had Nick Beggs on bass. Did you know that? DO you know who Nick Beggs is? We all know popularlity doesn't equal greater than less popular. Well maybe you don't but most do.

I would argue that popularity is indeed a part of the greatness formula, in that talent that resonates among the masses better defines "greatness" than talent that lives in obscurity and has little impact.

[Rick N. Backer]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

 

A higher percentage of people think Brittany Spears and Madonna is better than Kajagoogoo too for that matter or Missing Persons to throw in another eighties new wave band. So what? Besides, Kajagoogoo had Nick Beggs on bass. Did you know that? DO you know who Nick Beggs is? We all know popularlity doesn't equal greater than less popular. Well maybe you don't but most do.

 

I don't know who Nick Beggs is. I'd be surprised if too many people do. But you keep thinking The Beatles and The Rolling Stones popularity is a "bandwagon" thing. It's funny, you used the term correctly, but then immediately revealed that you have no idea how to apply it.

[Rick N. Backer]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

 

A higher percentage of people think Brittany Spears and Madonna is better than Kajagoogoo too for that matter or Missing Persons to throw in another eighties new wave band. So what? Besides, Kajagoogoo had Nick Beggs on bass. Did you know that? DO you know who Nick Beggs is? We all know popularlity doesn't equal greater than less popular. Well maybe you don't but most do.

I would argue that popularity is indeed a part of the greatness formula, in that talent that resonates among the masses better defines "greatness" than talent that lives in obscurity and has little impact.

 

Notice the tired application of Britney Spears (notwithstanding the mispelling) to the concept of "popular but not talented," schtick. As if she's the embodiment of someone without talent. I don't know where these people come from, who think that only obscure artists have talent. One hit wonders capture lightning in a bottle. Artists who sell albums for a decade usually have a little more to them.

[thizzellewashington]

Interesting to see the term "bandwagon fans" and bandwagon in relation to music in general since it's a term that I myself used without realizing others were using it. Anyway not sure your definition of bandwagon fans but my definition would be fans who are just into the band because they think it's cool and because all their other friends are into them. The band most guilty, imo, of having fans like this is by far the Grateful Dead.

 

Here's my list of bandwagon bands from most obvious to not so much but still probably has fans like that:

 

Grateful Dead

Pink Floyd

Led Zeppelin

Radiohead

Phish

Rush (especially in the last ten years and I mean no disrespect to the many true Rush fans out there)

Metallica

The Beatles

The Doors

U2

The Rolling Stones

Nirvana (maybe not so much now)

Pearl Jam (ditto above)

AC/DC

Tool

 

Not sure who else but I'm sure I missed some really important ones. Also, feel free to disagree with some on my list since I could be off on a few.

 

Never really a bandwagon band imo but have fans who are really into them nonetheless:

 

The Who

The Police

Yes

Genesis

King Crimson

Gentle Giant

Van der Graaf Generator (heck any well known prog band for that matter including this band and the last four in particular)

Any arena rock or hard rock band from 70's to 90's.

Van Halen (they fall into above category but interesting that their fans seem split between the Hagar and DLR era)

 

Is it possible that everyone seems to like, say, The Stones because they were great?

 

In that case you could say the same about the Beatles. If we do then we can extend it to many others as well since "greatness" is subjective.

 

You could say it about the Beatles. And greatness is subjective. But do you think it’s at all significant that a higher percentage of people think, say, Led Zeppelin is great than think Kajagoogoo is great? Popularity =/= greatness, but they’re also not as inversely proportional as some on this board think either.

 

A higher percentage of people think Brittany Spears and Madonna is better than Kajagoogoo too for that matter or Missing Persons to throw in another eighties new wave band. So what? Besides, Kajagoogoo had Nick Beggs on bass. Did you know that? DO you know who Nick Beggs is? We all know popularlity doesn't equal greater than less popular. Well maybe you don't but most do.

I would argue that popularity is indeed a part of the greatness formula, in that talent that resonates among the masses better defines "greatness" than talent that lives in obscurity and has little impact.

 

Notice the tired application of Britney Spears (notwithstanding the mispelling) to the concept of "popular but not talented," schtick. As if she's the embodiment of someone without talent. I don't know where these people come from, who think that only obscure artists have talent. One hit wonders capture lightning in a bottle. Artists who sell albums for a decade usually have a little more to them.

Britney is also kind of an elder stateswoman at this point and has some bangers.