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Why did 70s prog rock bands turn to new wave in the 80s as a sound change?


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#21 tangy

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

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#22 Rick N. Backer

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:37 AM

View Posttangy, on 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

I enjoy earlier Yes, but 90125 is by far their best album IMO.  I saw the tour and loved it.

Genesis with Peter Gabriel does absolutely nothing for me.

#23 tangy

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:47 AM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

View Posttangy, on 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

I enjoy earlier Yes, but 90125 is by far their best album IMO.  I saw the tour and loved it.

Genesis with Peter Gabriel does absolutely nothing for me.

90125 is the last yes record i like. It is solid throughout. I saw that tour and bought my worst concert t shirt ever.

A pink sleeveless t with glow in the dark ink.

In my defense i believe the other shirts were sold out.

#24 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:49 AM

View Postgoose, on 06 March 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.


View Posttoymaker, on 05 March 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

Under Wraps is a weird album for me - love the tunes but hate the sounds.
Yeah, Under Wraps is a strange one.  It was the times, as others have pointed out, including  Ian himself in this clip from A Little Light Music.   He also makes your point about the songs being good when not played with the synths...



This is the better version :yes:

#25 bluefox4000

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:36 AM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

View Posttangy, on 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

I enjoy earlier Yes, but 90125 is by far their best album IMO.  I saw the tour and loved it.

Genesis with Peter Gabriel does absolutely nothing for me.


Pretty much me as well.  i like certain things but on the whole i'm a Collins era guy.

Mick

#26 Mithrandir

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:45 PM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .
While I enjoy that time period from Yes and Genesis, it pales by like a zillion times to their 70's material..  Yes  A ZILLION!! :)

#27 Mithrandir

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:47 PM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

View Posttangy, on 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 05 March 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s.  I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

I enjoy earlier Yes, but 90125 is by far their best album IMO.  I saw the tour and loved it.

Genesis with Peter Gabriel does absolutely nothing for me.
Your favorite from them :)  And i really like it too.

But 90125 is not even close to the majesty that was every YES album from The YES album through and including GFTO.  :)

My two favorite Genesis albums are Wind and Wuthering and AToTT, but I find the Gabriel albums fantastic !

Edited by Mithrandir, 06 March 2018 - 12:49 PM.


#28 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:51 PM

I don't think 90125 has anything on The Yes Album or Close To The Edge, but it's a powerful listening experience in it's own right. It's the sound of them finally turning Jon's overly optimistic hippie gibberish (yes, I do love it) into pop songs that pack a strong message and are truly uplifting. Hold On makes me smile.

#29 bluefox4000

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:56 PM

I'm gonna say it.  I really don't like 90125.  it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing.  The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

Mick

#30 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:59 PM

View Postbluefox4000, on 06 March 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm gonna say it.  I really don't like 90125.  it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing.  The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

Mick

It's a hard pill to swallow, and I can't begrudge you for not enjoying it. If you can get into the idea and sound of it though, it does turn out to be one of their better crafted albums.

#31 Rick N. Backer

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 02:27 PM

One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music.  Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour.  :)

#32 bluefox4000

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 02:50 PM

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music.  Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour.  :)

Trick is my fav Genesis record.  Abacab is a beast as well.

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

Mick

#33 Entre_Perpetuo

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:31 PM

View Postbluefox4000, on 06 March 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music.  Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour.  :)

Trick is my fav Genesis record.  Abacab is a beast as well.

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

Mick

Trick > Selling

let the games begin. :P

#34 cygnify

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:50 PM

I think with 1981's Discipline, King Crimson set a tone for many of the prog dinosaurs moving into the 80's and trying not to be irrelevant (or labelled as such).  When Fripp disbanded KC in 74, he went on to collaborate with some very "hip" artists Peter Gabriel, David Bowie, Brian Eno, Blondie.  His vision for the 80's Crimson with Adrian Belew (Zappa alum most recently with Talking Heads) at the mic and on guitar was aimed at creating a hip path for prog musicians to move forward with (remember progsters were regularly lambasted in the media following the emergence of punk in the mid/late 70's).

In his book, Bill Bruford also touches on the interesting divergence in the band UK - two musicians (John Wetton and Eddie Jobson) headed in one direction (a much more accessible neo-prog pop - achieved by Wetton in Asia) and two musicians (Allan Holdsworth and BillyB) headed in the opposite direction of the pure music world of jazz.

I'm always interested in that inflection point in popular music that occurred in the early 80's - after the punk revolution and disco were over - and the emergence of MTV.  Image became overthing and in order to continue careers in music at a standard of living which they were accustomed, the brilliant prog dinosaurs of the 70's had to adapt or be relegated to nostalgia.

Personally, I prefer the 70's / very early 80's output of Rush, Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Tull, et al. but there were still some interesting experiments had by all.

Edited by cygnify, 06 March 2018 - 03:59 PM.


#35 cygnify

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:56 PM

I'm also reminded of an interview with Neil circa 1979 and all he could talk about was "the Police" and how they blended some punk energy with English reggae and pop accessibility.  Also Geddy in the early 80's talking about The Talking Head and later Bjork.  I think Rush always had their ears open for new sounds.  Yes, they were originally inspired by Zeppelin, the Who, and Cream - later Yes, Crimson, Genesis, and Bruford - but they were always looking for new sounds and a new approach.  So, perhaps their progression was not solely contrived to remain relevant in the changing music industry.  They had a sincere interest in this new music (perhaps not always shared by the fans they had garnered from a specific era.)

#36 cygnify

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:58 PM

This article is relevant to this thread

https://www.npr.org/...ect-around-here

#37 Rick N. Backer

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:26 PM

View Postbluefox4000, on 06 March 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm gonna say it.  I really don't like 90125.  it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing.  The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

Mick

I actually think with Rabin their songs were not so much "pop" as they were a little heavier.

#38 Mithrandir

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:52 PM

I LOVE the DRAMA album from Yes.   Side 2 (for us oldsters) is fantastic!

#39 custom55

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:35 PM

OK... I'm  :codger:

I prefer YES 70's music  - Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Tales, Gates and their 70's solo albums ( Olias Of Sunhillow, Fish Out of Water, Six Wives ) are all incredible.   I did like Big Generator though.

I've seen all versions of YES in concert many times from the 70's until last year with ARW.   YES live in the 70's cannot be beat.   Just watch YESSONGS.




Genesis - Lamb Lies Down was their peak.   Selling England, Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme are incredible albums too. I do own Trick of the Tail, Wind and Wuthering, ... and Then There Were Three and they are good albums but I prefer Genesis with Peter.

I've also seen both versions of Genesis live and Peter's version is more interesting to me, both musically and visually.

Edited by custom55, 06 March 2018 - 08:36 PM.


#40 tangy

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:37 PM

View Postbluefox4000, on 06 March 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

View PostRick N. Backer, on 06 March 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music.  Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour.  :)

Trick is my fav Genesis record.  Abacab is a beast as well.

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

Mick

Trick is the shit.  Magical.
Probably love it the most cause i heard first.




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